Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

[Dtg]

this game came out around the time Zork did. It was one of first turn-based games from which many other turn-based games were born. I played this on a commodore 128D, my friend purchased a Tandy T-1000 after seeing The Bard's Tale. They didnt have The Bard's Tale in stock when he bought his computer but they did have Pool of Radiance, when I went over to see his computer he was already playing a game, I assumed it was The Bard's Tale, it wasnt. Looking closer I saw so many familiar elements but with "real" color and graphics, turned out to be Pool of Radiance. Since our group was already into playing DnD, PoR caught and held out interest.

From that point on graphics topped our list in criteria when purchasing newer games, storyline came second. Between all4 of us in our group we bought a lot of games back then. Our game night turn into a gaming weekend, DnD one night and computer games the next, we had 3 computers in 1 small room then and boy did it get warm in there. We started doing our own critiques of what we were playing, and surprisingly The Bard' Tale won out for capturing attention but failed at maintaining it throughout the game. Might and Magic was "ok", but since we were DnD addicts first, those games won out most often even if they werent as good as some.

So after looking at the list, and not seeing The Bard's Tale on it, I had to sign up and make this post. I dont agree with the list entirely but I'd like to think The Bard's Tale is better than Wizardry anyday, and to be honest, prior to the 90's, most of the turn-based rpg games were very similar(playability) with the storyline and the progression of graphics being the major differences.

Side note: There is one point about Baldur's Gate (or might been BG2), you can play it in a "semi" turn-based mode. (One of reviews I read mentioned something about turns.) Somewhere in options (or party AI) you can have the game pause when combat starts and I think each combat action, I forget exactly.

 

[Jaesun]

The Bard's Tale is better than Wizardry anyday

How exactly? Just saying that doesn't mean shit.

 

[octavius]

Even though Bard's Tale was superior to Wizardry and Might&Magic in many ways, it has one critical flaw that has made it age much worse: endless random encounters calculated in real time, with a frequency so short that often you don't have time check the loot from a won battle before a new one starts. That was fine when there were like three CRPGs in the world and you had lots of time to waste. And that is probably why you won't find any of the Bard's Tale games on the top 50 list.
If they had encounter design similar to Wizardry or M&M, I would definitely rate them higher than MM3-5.
But both BT 1 and 2 were some of my best CRPG experiences, but then I was young and inexperienced when I played them and I did not have much to compare with, BT 1 being the first game I played on a "real" computer (Amiga).

BTW, you passed the first test. No mention of your join date.

 

[Gregz]

The Bard's Tale is better than Wizardry anyday

How exactly? Just saying that doesn't mean shit.

I agree with him actually.

The Bard's Tale > Wizardry 1.

It's an unfair comparison because Wizardry came out several years before and only featured mono-graphics, but from a historical standpoint the Wizardry games continued to improve and have a long band of nostalgia stretching all the way from Wizardry 1-8. Someone somewhere likely played a Wizardry game at some time in their formative childhood years, and remember it fondly. The Bard's Tale was king for maybe a year. It's not going to win a popularity contest amongst a heterogeneous age group.

In my opinion The Bard's Tale games got worse and worse, the sequel was more difficult, but the game wasn't as tight as the first...it lacked a specific magic and the graphics were inferior. The 3rd installment was even worse. For a brief time in the mid-80s, The Bard's Tale was the fantasy RPG game to play. Most of the people that populate this board started gaming in the 90s, they can retro back from Might and Magic VI, or Wizardry VII, or whatever they chanced upon first when they were young, but there's no opportunity or reason to retro back to The Bard's Tale because the 'series' decayed and died instead of flourishing. It wasn't on the radar when most Codexer's started PC gaming.

I'm 39 and The Bard's Tale was my 'first love', I played it in 7th grade on my IBM XT. Most people on the 'dex are in their 20s. I love The Bard's Tale for the nostalgia, and because it was the first RPG I ever played, it was magic. It's also a great game.

Even though Bard's Tale was superior to Wizardry and Might&Magic in many ways, it has one critical flaw that has made it age much worse: endless random encounters calculated in real time, with a frequency so short that often you don't have time check the loot from a won battle before a new one starts.

I disagree, this is an exaggeration. It's true about the real time random encounters, but you could always pause the game. Also, this lent a degree of difficulty and danger to dungeons which was thrilling and challenging.

The Bard's Tale sequels were mismanaged and the 'franchise' died in obscurity (unlike the Wizardrys, Might and Magics, Ultimas, Elder Scrolls, etc.), and that is the primary reason The Bard's Tale has a poor historical image. The victor writes history, and in this case it was the ability of a developer to improve and maintain a brand over a long period of time with successful sequels that determined historical significance.

This is the greatest weakness I see in felipepepe 's polling method, and the resulting list. The groundswell of support for a given series of games would land on a particular favorite of that series, but for many people it would be whatever they played first. So we have 5 Wizardry entries on the list, which elbow out games like The Bard's Tale. Forcing all votes into 'Wizardry' or 'Might and Magic' isn't a good solution either because Daggerfall is very different from Morrowind.

tl;dr. Our list isn't flawless, and I agree with the OP.

It should also be noted that the game engine used for Wasteland, Fallout's predecessor, was first designed for The Bard's Tale.

Listing 5 M&Ms, and 5 Wizardrys, and 5 Ultimas elbows out some very important historical RPGs...like The Bard's Tale.

 

[Jaesun]

What are your thoughts on this Ms. Crooked Bee

 

[Alchemist]

I remember the Bard's Tale fondly (played it back in the 80's, yes I'm old) - but for some reason it didn't make it into my vote. Something about Wizardry and Might & Magic just grabbed me more. But BT is a good, classic game and an important part of CRPG history and the blobber genre. It is kind of a shame it didn't make the list.

Gregz is right I think - the Codex demographics just skew heavily towards post-80's games. If the forum were predominantly people in their 30's and 40's+ the results would be quite different. Nostalgia for what we grew up with plays a big part in this.

 

[octavius]

Gregz is right I think - the Codex demographics just skew heavily towards post-80's games. If the forum were predominantly people in their 30's and 40's+ the results would be quite different. Nostalgia for what we grew up with plays a big part in this.

I've played most of the worthy DOS era CRPGs the past few years, some for the very first time, and most of those I though were good back then is still good today. So for me it's not just nostalgia; some damn good CRPGs were made back then. Some I even liked better now than back then, like Dragon Wars and Black Crypt. The BT games are among the few that have aged badly, though.

 

[HiddenX]

Between Wizardry 1 (1980) and Bards Tale 1 (1985) are 5 years of rapid computer and software development.
So it's not really fair to compare them - I love them both.

 

[Gregz]

Gregz is right I think - the Codex demographics just skew heavily towards post-80's games. If the forum were predominantly people in their 30's and 40's+ the results would be quite different. Nostalgia for what we grew up with plays a big part in this.

I've played most of the worthy DOS era CRPGs the past few years, some for the very first time, and most of those I though were good back then is still good today. So for me it's not just nostalgia; some damn good CRPGs were made back then. Some I even liked better now than back then, like Dragon Wars and Black Crypt. The BT games are among the few that have aged badly, though.

Between Wizardry 1 (1980) and Bards Tale 1 (1985) are 5 years of rapid computer and software development.
So it's not really fair to compare them - I love them both.

I don't disagree with either of you on your main points. I do believe The Bard's Tale is a better game than Dragon Wars however.

 

[Luzur]

Gregz is right I think - the Codex demographics just skew heavily towards post-80's games. If the forum were predominantly people in their 30's and 40's+ the results would be quite different. Nostalgia for what we grew up with plays a big part in this.

from what ive gathered we are more guys over 30 then what most think.

 

[Infinitron]

What does "over 30" mean? If you're in your early 30s then you were barely out of kindergarten when late 80s RPGs were new

 

[Crooked Bee]

BT2 has some awesome dungeon design. That one and Dragon Wars are my favorite BT games.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Loved the BT Series back in the days - because of their great graphics and the possibility to enslave Monsters and collect them like pokemons


Edit:

And while I start every few years a new try to play wizardry VI - VIII (have only finished VI back in the days), I see no point to replay the BTs.

 

[Alchemist]

Gregz is right I think - the Codex demographics just skew heavily towards post-80's games. If the forum were predominantly people in their 30's and 40's+ the results would be quite different. Nostalgia for what we grew up with plays a big part in this.

I've played most of the worthy DOS era CRPGs the past few years, some for the very first time, and most of those I though were good back then is still good today. So for me it's not just nostalgia; some damn good CRPGs were made back then. Some I even liked better now than back then, like Dragon Wars and Black Crypt. The BT games are among the few that have aged badly, though.

You make a good point and have great taste in CRPGs, there's no doubt about that. I salute you for giving the older stuff a chance and appreciating them.

from what ive gathered we are more guys over 30 then what most think.

Perhaps - I don't really know much about the real ages of people and can't access GD yet to get to know people. It's just a general vibe I get that people here are younger.

 

[Luzur]

What does "over 30" mean? If you're in your early 30s then you were barely out of kindergarten when late 80s RPGs were new

sure, being 34 i was kinda young back then , if that is what you wanted to hear, but i still played RPG's like Bard's Tale, Might and Magic 2 and Dragon Wars on a C64 before the 1990's rolled by.

but i know alot of guys here are around the 29-35 level.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I liked the NES port. It had pretty cool music.

 

[dragonbait]

Bard's Tale was what got me into CRPG's. My father had Tales of the Unknown for Apple IIe computer, and later also the sequels. I used to sneak down to the basement late at night to play them when i was a kid and supposed to be asleep. I was fascinated with it and it was the most extensive game in my fathers collection. You could play for days on end building up advancing your party and still have to worry about getting slaughtered by some horrid beast or not having enough spellpoints to make it back to the guild or temple alive. I think at least one of the trilogy should have made a spot somewhere in the top 70, but I'm not complaining as I didn't vote. Plus, one has to realize that the majority of people voting would skew the results towards more recent games for the simple fact that the older one gets the less time they have to play video games and to post and vote about them on internet forums. The Bard's Tale Trilogy will always be great classic games as they are burned into my memory as being what I believe dungeon crawlers ought to be like.

 

[victim]

BT2 has some awesome dungeon design. That one and Dragon Wars are my favorite BT games.

Did Dragon Wars make the list? Thats the only one I really got into. However, I did play Pool of Radiance and BT1 on the NES -- never moved on to the computer versions though because it just seemed like so much more rigamarole (which one has three different type of coins you can earn?). I really loved those two games on the NES though (sadly none of the sequels appeared on consoles that I know of).

Then, I think games like Dark Spire or the PSN Wizardry (Labyrinth of Lost Souls) are basically straight ports of Wizardry only (slightly) streamlined and without some of the glaring technical limitations.

I'm 32 for reference but the only computer game I played as a kid was Oregon Trail.

 

[dragonbait]

I liked the NES port. It had pretty cool music.

There was also a Bard's Tale II - Destiny Knight for Famicom. To bad there wasn't an english version. Or is there? I didn't find anything so far.

 

[octavius]

BT2 has some awesome dungeon design.

If you like a good mapping challenge, few games beat BT2. I loved the darkness zones, spinners, anti-magic zones and so forth, but getting interrupted by random encounters every 10 seconds is not something I could tolerate nowadays.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

Im still trying to complete bards tale

 

[octavius]

Did Dragon Wars make the list?

No. But even master pieces like Dungeon Master and Dark Heart of Uukrul barely made it on the top 70 list, so it's hard for those '80s game (that too few have played) too make it on a list made in 2014.

 

[Dtg]

Great Response from everyone. I'd like to say that during the 80's there was not a while lot of RPG's to choose from. I never had the chance to play BT3 or much else in the late 80s due to spending time overseas for a several years. Anyone looking at the Codex closely, will see that it is obvious that it is tilted a bit. Not a big problem since the list is not just one person making it up. IMHO, games that have multiple sequels shouldnt be treated separately, not completely atleast, but that cant be helped, especially with game producers pooping out games as fast as possible. This created issues that seemed to condemn game series like The Bard Tale Trilogy to its fate. Moore's Law didnt affect gaming as much as PR and media has. Popularity amounted to how much PR could be done, meaning, little or no PR usually meant the game shoundnt be that good to play. Popularity meant kids wanted game_001 over some other game. That meant that the popular games always made "fonder memories", while the "other games" were "junk". And every opinion becomes biased. Lastly, I think Zork (the text games) should have a place of Honor on the Codex.

Thanks for listening to this old fart.

 

[Old Hans]

Ahh Bard's Tale 3 was one of my first rpgs. I was so happy the day I finally beat Brilhasti ap Tarj: THE REAL BARDS TALE STARTS HERE!

 

[Daemongar]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Bard's Tale series, being partial to the C64 versions myself. The first Disk based crpg I purchased was The Bard's Tale, and I played it to death. It's very hard to defend it around here, as it is *very* difficult a low levels, there is no save anywhere, and you could only save off your characters in the Adventures Guild. Think I finished my first run with characters around level 120 or so due to getting lost so often in dungeons.

There was a lot of newness and creativity in the Bard's Tale games, and I could not wait for the newer versions to come out. Unlike Gregz I believe the games got better as the games went along. The developers had do to do something to ramp up the challenge for new players and players importing alike. Players like me took the same party from BT1 -> BT2 -> BT3. I believe that since you could finish BT1 then continue leveling, they had to scale the difficulty upward in each future game. So BT2 added real time puzzles. Finish the puzzle or everyone dies. BT3 added a lot of creatures with all kinds of death and crit abilities.

Also, as the games progressed, the spells got better and they added more dynamic features. While BT2 snares were damn near impossible at the end they added a level of excitement and fear to the game. Fight your way up three levels of horror, then, armed with no knowledge, jump into the snare and hope for the best. Also, they did open up the world and added lots of nice features. In BT3, they added all that automapping, artifacts and 10x the story of the previous 2. There are other technological advances, but I believe they got better, not worse.

A lot of quite popular dungeons are still fondly remembered here: Harklyn's Castle and the 400 Berzerkers in BT1, The Grey Crypt (antimagic dungeon) in BT2, and Tarmitia and fighting Stormtroopers and Wasteland Scavengers (a tie in with Wasteland, or I thought at the time) in BT3. Bard's Tale belongs in the "pantheon" but its a LOT harder to go back and finish BT1 than it would be to finish U5 or Wasteland. That's understandable: those games are incredible. But BT1 was just as much a technological marvel as they were when they came out.