Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

[octavius]

There was a lot of newness and creativity in the Bard's Tale games, and I could not wait for the newer versions to come out. Unlike Gregz I believe the games got better as the games went along.

I thought BT2 was mostly an incline: even more devious level design, the puzzles which I actually liked, and introduction of range in combat making things more tactical. On the downside the bestiary was rather silly; each and every dungeon level had it's own set of monsters with mostly silly names. In BT1 it was easier to "relate" to the monsters.

The developers had do to do something to ramp up the challenge for new players and players importing alike. Players like me took the same party from BT1 -> BT2 -> BT3. I believe that since you could finish BT1 then continue leveling, they had to scale the difficulty upward in each future game. So BT2 added real time puzzles. Finish the puzzle or everyone dies.

Personally I found BT2 to be too easy if importing characters from BT1. I remember quitting halfway on my first attempt, and restarting from scratch. That was a much better and more challenging experience, and the beginner dungeon was excellent.

BT3 added a lot of creatures with all kinds of death and crit abilities..

BT1 and BT2 already had monsters with various nasty special attacks. But due to bugs those special attacks were not present in the Amiga and DOS versions of BT3. For me, playing the Amiga version, BT3 was a huge disappointment, partly due to this bug. BT3 also had a weird mix of real time and turn based gameplay. Encounters were finally no longer checked in real time, but mana regeneration was. So you could regenerate mana by just having your characters hang around and not move.
So BT3 remains the only BT i haven't completed.

Incidentally I think it says something that BT2 and BT3 are among the few games the crpgaddict did not complete.

 

[Daemongar]

BT1 and BT2 already had monsters with various nasty special attacks. But due to bugs those special attacks were not present in the Amiga and DOS versions of BT3. For me, playing the Amiga version, BT3 was a huge disappointment, partly due to this bug. BT3 also had a weird mix of real time and turn based gameplay. Encounters were finally no longer checked in real time, but mana regeneration was. So you could regenerate mana by just having your characters hang around and not move.
So BT3 remains the only BT i haven't completed.

BT3 also added mana replenishing gems, so they probably went easy on the mana conservation angle. And I agree that BT2 got kind of goofy with the "Cranbos" and whatnot. Think they were running out of names and just took wild stabs. Also kind of sucks about the bugs as I never finished any of the BT games on the Amiga but always harbored a vision that they would be the ultimate BT experience. Think that the big advantage of BT1 and 2 on Amiga is that you could exceed 65355 xps in an encounter. Don't think you could do that on the C64 versions until BT3.

Incidentally I think it says something that BT2 and BT3 are among the few games the crpgaddict did not complete.

I guess I don't blame him. Those were pretty long games. BT2 had 7 dungeons with about 3 levels each, on a 21x21 grid that had to be mapped, with spinners and darkness zones. I don't know if even I could finish that game now. And BT3 had many more dungeons of various sizes, but each zone had a unique feel and look. I still had to hand map some of the BT3 dungeons even with the automap just to handle teleporters and things. Sorry to hear you didn't finish it, as it actually has a semi-engaging story as it goes along, too bad you only get a small part of the story every time you beat a boss. Would be a lot easier to finish now with an emulator with save states and whatnot so you don't have to reload or re-fight through the same corridors to make it to the boss.

 

[Dtg]

I wuold say that most early game had a bug or two, which seemed to make or break a game. Porting a build to different systems back then was much harder than it is now, so it was expected to have a issues, issues not everyone liked. If a reputable reviewer made a bigger issue for a bug here and there, it was expected that game would flop. However, BT1 didnt flop, but then again the only reviewer we had were word of mouth. I think a lot can be said of many of the first games in a series being sub-par while developers look forward to the next game being "better than the first". The question is, did BT2 or 3 achieve that? On a list like this codex, it did not it seems please enough of the voters. Some of us would agree that it there was a core group of games that influenced PC gaming today BT1 would be quite near the top of that list. When console games became popular many PC games just faded away. If the codex was only PC games, I think the list might be a bit different.

 

[Decado]

Like some other people, I played the Bard's Tale on a Tandy (1000 HX) and loved the crap out of it. It was the pinnacle of a dungeon crawler for its time, and light years ahead of any other game on a variety of fronts: better graphics, a "3D" interface, and a difficulty curve that was nothing short of punishing.

If anything, it is that last piece that made it a sort of impenetrable game for a lot of people. Even back then, the dungeons were incredibly hard, and good portions of the game were essentially spent grinding out levels so you could go through the dungeons and actually survive. The game punished you for recklessness, which is something you don't see very often.

It had its flaws. The mechanics of the game were opaque. There was no real way of knowing how great a weapon was except for looking at the gold value. And there was no clarified benefits to using certain classes. For example, to this day I don't know why a Paladin was better than a Fighter, or vice versa. And finally, the randomized encounters could get ridiculous.

Overall, though, a pretty fucking awesome game. If inXile decided to make another BT game as a kickstarted project -- and the recent spate of blobbers/crawlers ala Grimrock reveal there is still an audience for these games -- I think they could do pretty well with it. I would donate in a second.

 

[Dorateen]

There was an interesting indie retro Bard's Tale clone in development, maybe someone should bother Baxter

For me, I started with Might & Magic II in 1989, then it was a natural gravitation to the AD&D titles. By the early 1990's the selection of cRPGs was bountiful, so I didn't get into Bard's Tale until Thief of Fate. It was neat, but I felt the game was somehow lacking/underwhelming compared to the other boxes that were already starting to pile up. I did enjoy Dragon Wars. But again, I think the issue is that taken in the context of the era, there were plenty of other dungeon crawlers and of increasing depth and scope, that pushed the Bard's Tale to the side.

But I very much appreciate the design philosophy. Would support cRPGs being made in this tradition today.

 

[octavius]

One thing I really liked about the BT games compared to M&M and Wizardry, was the concept of the Adventurers Guild. Even if your whole party was wiped out, it was not game over, since other members of the guild could resurrect your old party. So it was always a good idea to have a stash of cash on a character in the guild, just in case.

 

[Alchemist]

One thing I really liked about the BT games compared to M&M and Wizardry, was the concept of the Adventurers Guild. Even if your whole party was wiped out, it was not game over, since other members of the guild could resurrect your old party. So it was always a good idea to have a stash of cash on a character in the guild, just in case.

You could do that in the earlier Wizardries too, if I'm remembering correctly. But yeah it is a nice feature to have. I think Oubliette was one of the first dungeon crawlers to have it.

 

[dragonbait]

One thing I really liked about the BT games compared to M&M and Wizardry, was the concept of the Adventurers Guild. Even if your whole party was wiped out, it was not game over, since other members of the guild could resurrect your old party. So it was always a good idea to have a stash of cash on a character in the guild, just in case.

You could do that in the earlier Wizardries too, if I'm remembering correctly. But yeah it is a nice feature to have. I think Oubliette was one of the first dungeon crawlers to have it.

Er, couldn't we do that in Might and Magic II also? I remember there was a roster of characters that you could choose from at the start of the game and a temple to resurrect fallen heroes. I haven't played MMII in a while but seem to recall being able to bring back a dead team, or is my memory on the fritz?

Anyways, if you liked Bard's Tale, Wizardy, or early Might and Magic, you might also like Realms of Quest IV.
+ a blog about the game... Ruby's Adventure's in the Realms of Quest

 

[octavius]

One thing I really liked about the BT games compared to M&M and Wizardry, was the concept of the Adventurers Guild. Even if your whole party was wiped out, it was not game over, since other members of the guild could resurrect your old party. So it was always a good idea to have a stash of cash on a character in the guild, just in case.

You could do that in the earlier Wizardries too, if I'm remembering correctly. But yeah it is a nice feature to have. I think Oubliette was one of the first dungeon crawlers to have it.

Er, couldn't we do that in Might and Magic II also? I remember there was a roster of characters that you could choose from at the start of the game and a temple to resurrect fallen heroes. I haven't played MMII in a while but seem to recall being able to bring back a dead team, or is my memory on the fritz?

No, party death was game over and you had to continue from when you last saved at an Inn. Dead characters were not saved at party death.

Anyways, if you liked Bard's Tale, Wizardy, or early Might and Magic, you might also like Realms of Quest IV.
+ a blog about the game... Ruby's Adventure's in the Realms of Quest

Eeeew! A Vic 20 game?!? in this slice of spacetime? <shudder>

 

[Old Hans]

ughh I hope they release an IBM compatible version of realm quest 4 before Christmas

 

[Dtg]

There was a an attempt to "remake" The Bard's Tale in 2004 (PC and playstation 2- I think). I couldnt find the right link fast enough but I found this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411146/

I did play the 2004 one, I dont remember much of it (drunk, high, etc), except that the voice overs were funny. I think that would be worth a replay for me. I do remember that it was as in-depth as the original.

 

[dragonbait]

ughh I hope they release an IBM compatible version of realm quest 4 before Christmas

I use the VICE emulator

 

[Daemongar]

ughh I hope they release an IBM compatible version of realm quest 4 before Christmas

I use the VICE emulator

This is still my favorite Emulator of all time for the C64 (although C64 Forever is second, and includes VICE)

http://www.computerbrains.com/ (eh, figures, the download link is down, but that CCS64 is compatible with almost anything.

 

[octavius]

I can understand playing old C64, or even Vic-16 games, on emulatetor, but making a new game for these platforms is just retarded.

 

[Old Hans]

I can understand playing old C64, or even Vic-16 games, on emulatetor, but making a new game for these platforms is just retarded.

come ooon youre missing out on realm quest 4 1080p surround sound! ITS LIKE YOURE IN THE DUNGEON!

or back in the highschool computer room during lunch!

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I had this game back when I was also trying the Phantasie series, Ultima IV and Wizard's Crown. Out of all these RPGs, I liked the Bard's Tale the least, mostly because I never felt like I was really progressing because of the frequent fights that seemed to occur every few steps and the limited confines of the city. Ultimately I dropped the game and moved on to others with more exploration. I would eventually beat Ultima IV and the Phantasie trilogy, but never completed Wizard's Crown or Bard's Tale. Despite this, I still remember Wizard's Crown favorably and will return to finish it one day. I don't have the same plans for the Bard's Tale as it still evokes a feeling of indifference when the game title is mentioned.

I'm not trying to be a downer on all of you who have fonder memories, but I did want to give my opinion for any lurkers with similar negative experiences.

 

[TigerKnee]

Hey, can I use this thread to talk about Dragon Wars? Seems like a bunch of people are praising it.

Anyway, started, made some random 4 dudes blindly, will restart if they are too shit.

So, I get dumped into a ghetto prison with no equipment and no spells, guess I should have put some points into fistfighting. Kind of an interesting start though, you got to walk around and scavenge what you can.

Is it just me or is the interface kind of painful? Trying to bandage everyone after every battle is a pain in the ass. I've looked through the manual and apparently there's a macro feature but I have no idea how to get it to work to bandage everyone. Also, macros aren't saved, apparently? If there's one thing that's going to make me quit the game, it's how the interface slows everything to a crawl.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Hey, can I use this thread to talk about Dragon Wars? Seems like a bunch of people are praising it.

You'll get responses, but you should probably try these threads instead:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dragon-wars-question.20232/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dragon-wars.66820/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dragon-wars-help-needed.58269/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/interplay-classics-wasteland-vs-dragon-wars.48486/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-play-dragon-wars.24403/

If the RPG Codex tags let you down on trying to find a game, try a google search with 'RPG Codex' followed by the game name.

 

[Lord Azlan]

The Bards Tale 1 (1985) was probably the first computer RPG I played - that was on the C64. I had the BBC B computer before that - most adventure games on that machine were text based. Although there was the odd graphic action adventure - Knightlore for example.


It was in that game that I first saw things like ST, DEX, Monk, Paladin, Scarlet Monk, Doppleganger, Jabberwock etc. Rolling characters for the first time on screen - wow, that was incredible. What the heck was a Bard anyway? He could use a horn if you found one and wasn't a great fighter - quite a liability if you ask me.


I purchased Bards Tale 1 to 3 as they were published. Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge (1990) was the first of those series I tried and Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen (1992) the first M&M. Ultima IV (1986) was the first of that series I owned.


Was quite interested in the RPG all time top list and very keen to see the possible follow up book being produced. Out of the top 10 list published I would have put Morrowind first then then Fallouts 2 and 1.


Recently bought the new Bards Tale with the sole purpose of going through the original trilogy again - at the moment I have nearly completed BT1 but due to PC crashes can't seem to progress any further - oh those memories fighting 99 Berserkers or 99 Skeletons etc. Of the trilogy I preferred BT3 - seems more scope to develop your characters and more space to explore. How about those Chronomancers? Entering those Temples in BT1 and seeing the hooded monks with their creepy chanting was enjoyable.


BT1 was published in 1985 and I think the only game on the top 71 list published before then is Wizardry 1, from 1981. I am afraid even in their own era - in my opinion the BT series could not match progress and development happening elsewhere. Ultima IV was published in 1985 and Wasteland in 1988 just kicked them out of the water giving enhanced gaming experience. Then you have Dungeon Master in 1987 producing a first person experience that was even called "Dungeon Master" - what could beat that? I remember spending a lot of time on a game called Alternate Reality (AR) - The Dungeon which knocked my socks off at the time (1987). I see some love for it around the web. http://www.eobet.com/alternate-reality/


So, a bit surprising the BT series not mentioned but are they better than any of the games listed - of the ones I know and have played - no. The encounters system was great when wanting to level up and gain XP but made you want to smash the PC when trying to get somewhere quick. At least for BT1 so far...

And not being able to save at anytime - I am not going through all that again - don't have the time to lose hours to gaming with no progress to show - it's not the eighties.

So - Bards Tale series - good games for their time -
(All published dates found from Wiki so could be wrong)

 

[octavius]

Nice to have another oldfag onboard.

 

[Loriac]

Bards Tale was a great game, and I think probably one of the first crpgs I played. I played that inside out back in the day, even going so far as to make a party of mostly archmages (which took a long time iirc lol). I wouldn't be surprised if I still have muscle memory from that game, tracing frequent routes between the various locations.

I also recall thinking it was a really hard game, but in hindsight thats because I didn't locate the first dungeon (the wine cellar underneath the tavern) for a long time, and so was levelling up my party in the 2nd dungeon, which you were only meant to do after completing a lot of the first dungeon lol.

Of all the early crpgs (say the ones in made in the 80s) I have a fondness for the Bards Tale, and Pools of Radiance (getting fireball for the first time was lulzy in that game, and the way it would throw ridiculous shit at you like 'your party faces 39 orcs' or whatever, but the absolute best game from that decade was Wasteland. Still, the Bard's Tale is a damn fine game particularly as its a nostalgic childhood memory for me.

 

[dragonbait]

The Bards Tale 1 (1985) was probably the first computer RPG I played - that was on the C64. I had the BBC B computer before that - most adventure games on that machine were text based. Although there was the odd graphic action adventure - Knightlore for example.

It was in that game that I first saw things like ST, DEX, Monk, Paladin, Scarlet Monk, Doppleganger, Jabberwock etc. Rolling characters for the first time on screen - wow, that was incredible. What the heck was a Bard anyway? He could use a horn if you found one and wasn't a great fighter - quite a liability if you ask me.

I purchased Bards Tale 1 to 3 as they were published. Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge (1990) was the first of those series I tried and Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen (1992) the first M&M. Ultima IV (1986) was the first of that series I owned.

Was quite interested in the RPG all time top list and very keen to see the possible follow up book being produced. Out of the top 10 list published I would have put Morrowind first then then Fallouts 2 and 1.

Recently bought the new Bards Tale with the sole purpose of going through the original trilogy again - at the moment I have nearly completed BT1 but due to PC crashes can't seem to progress any further - oh those memories fighting 99 Berserkers or 99 Skeletons etc. Of the trilogy I preferred BT3 - seems more scope to develop your characters and more space to explore. How about those Chronomancers? Entering those Temples in BT1 and seeing the hooded monks with their creepy chanting was enjoyable.

BT1 was published in 1985 and I think the only game on the top 71 list published before then is Wizardry 1, from 1981. I am afraid even in their own era - in my opinion the BT series could not match progress and development happening elsewhere. Ultima IV was published in 1985 and Wasteland in 1988 just kicked them out of the water giving enhanced gaming experience. Then you have Dungeon Master in 1987 producing a first person experience that was even called "Dungeon Master" - what could beat that? I remember spending a lot of time on a game called Alternate Reality (AR) - The Dungeon which knocked my socks off at the time (1987). I see some love for it around the web. http://www.eobet.com/alternate-reality/


So, a bit surprising the BT series not mentioned but are they better than any of the games listed - of the ones I know and have played - no. The encounters system was great when wanting to level up and gain XP but made you want to smash the PC when trying to get somewhere quick. At least for BT1 so far...

And not being able to save at anytime - I am not going through all that again - don't have the time to lose hours to gaming with no progress to show - it's not the eighties.

So - Bards Tale series - good games for their time -
(All published dates found from Wiki so could be wrong)

I also felt that the Bard's Tale should have been mentioned in the best of list as for its time (1985) , it was the best darn crpg out there at the time. I spent quite some time rolling up my characters. It's all part of the fun. What other game had a bard? Plus it had Conjurer/Magician>Sorceror>Wizard progression. To progress forward was an accomplishment, even at early levels. Doppelgangers made party attack an interesting option. Wandering around at night with an inexperienced team in Skara Brae meant your team could be slaughtered cruelly by a group of 8 Barbarians. Magic was expanded in BTII to include the Archmage, III had Geomancer and Chronomancer spellcasters. + Monty python styled monks at the temples, haha. Perhaps I've got rose-tinted glasses, but the Bard's Tale trilogy will always be some of the best CRPG's out there. There have been others like Pool of Radiance and other gold box games and other crpgs that were just as cool but to me, the Bard's Tale was the beginning and was an awesome and unforgettable entrance to the RPG world.

 

[Pantalones]

Even though Bard's Tale was superior to Wizardry and Might&Magic in many ways, it has one critical flaw that has made it age much worse: endless random encounters calculated in real time, with a frequency so short that often you don't have time check the loot from a won battle before a new one starts. That was fine when there were like three CRPGs in the world and you had lots of time to waste. And that is probably why you won't find any of the Bard's Tale games on the top 50 list.
If they had encounter design similar to Wizardry or M&M, I would definitely rate them higher than MM3-5.
But both BT 1 and 2 were some of my best CRPG experiences, but then I was young and inexperienced when I played them and I did not have much to compare with, BT 1 being the first game I played on a "real" computer (Amiga).

BTW, you passed the first test. No mention of your join date.

It was not that bad and never happened before you could finish looting. You probably are playing in dosbox and have your framerate way too high.

Early wizardries were many times more extreme than ANY bard's tale game let alone the first one, which was very easy. You could not even save the game! I never finished any of them before 5, I think, though I enjoyed them all. Maybe Wiz II.

 

[octavius]

Even though Bard's Tale was superior to Wizardry and Might&Magic in many ways, it has one critical flaw that has made it age much worse: endless random encounters calculated in real time, with a frequency so short that often you don't have time check the loot from a won battle before a new one starts. That was fine when there were like three CRPGs in the world and you had lots of time to waste. And that is probably why you won't find any of the Bard's Tale games on the top 50 list.
If they had encounter design similar to Wizardry or M&M, I would definitely rate them higher than MM3-5.
But both BT 1 and 2 were some of my best CRPG experiences, but then I was young and inexperienced when I played them and I did not have much to compare with, BT 1 being the first game I played on a "real" computer (Amiga).

BTW, you passed the first test. No mention of your join date.

It was not that bad and never happened before you could finish looting.

It happened several times that I was about to check my characters and equip the loot, but was interrupted by a new random encounter. The encounter frequency was insane.

You probably are playing in dosbox and have your framerate way too high.

No, CPU cycles were not too high. Actually I tested how the game worked and found that one day lasts 22 minutes real time regardless of CPU cycles. And the encounter frequency was just as insane when trying an Amiga emulator. And it all matched my memories of the games. And when replaying BT1 I actually found the last levels harder than I recalled them being, suggesting that my party was lower level than when I first played it, which again does not compute with increased encounter frequency due to higher CPU cycles.

Early wizardries were many times more extreme than ANY bard's tale game let alone the first one, which was very easy. You could not even save the game! I never finished any of them before 5, I think, though I enjoyed them all. Maybe Wiz II.

You couldn't save the game in the BT games either, only save your party in the Adventurers Guild.

 

[Telengard]

I would personally say BT should have a mention on the top list too. But in a 5-point favoritism vote like that, old fags will have played more games, so their points are going to be distributed far more widely that are the young or the fanbois, so only the absolute favorites pre-91 are going to make a list like that. A rated popularity vote favors the votes of fanbois over old farts and serious blokes, since fanbois will cluster all their votes together, and the old farts will all be voting for different games and will tend to split their points up on top of it. (If in the vote, you split your vote across 10 games instead of 5, then you need 2 of you to equal the power of 1 fanbois). Which means there's just not the votes for something like Bard's Tale to have a chance at the list. If enough old fags voted, it might have gathered a few points, but that was all it could ever claim as its destiny.

*

Random encounters were the pits. But they did cause one incidental thing that I always loved. Mixed with the save system, they meant you had to carefully manage your resources, and rate when you should head back out of the dungeon. You couldn't just push ahead until the party was exhausted and walk back effortlessly to somewhere to rest. And if you guessed wrong, you could die 3 steps from the door out. Maddening, but in the end, it's something I always remember fondly - learning to be ever more careful as I delved deeper into the dungeons.

Personally, I've always felt someone should do something with that in modern games, mixing in set encounters with random encounters, but having a set ecosystem. So, there's only so many enemies in the enemy pool available for random encounters, which pool gets replenished in response to certain actions by the player.