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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
At the time, Bard's Tale I was THE game to play. It was the latest and greatest coding achievement of the times. There were other games to play sure but nothing beat Bard's Tale I for a while. Bard's Tale II came out and it was the equivalent of BTI+Then Some. BTII just kicked everyones ass, and kicked it HARD. To be honest, I didn't get far in it. I played it on my dad's Apple II computer. I even got further than he did. He didn't like it as much as I did but I also prefered BT1 over BT2. IMO Might and Magic II was the next cool RPG to be released. I spent many an hour playing MMII. It was practically never ending and I liked that aspect of it. My dad beat Bard's Tale3 on Apple II. I played a bit of it back then also but then got mostly involved in the AD+D Pool of Radiance and further Strategic Simulations Inc. (SSI) games from there onwards.
Did you finish PoR or MM2? Those two are definitely something you should think about returning to. I probably played and finished each BT 2 or 3 times (except BT2, after the first time finishing, I hacked in the last wand instead of going through that last snare. All the previous were nothing compared to that last one.) However, I just don't think I have the stomach (or the time) for any of them now!
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Then you have Dungeon Master in 1987 producing a first person experience that was even called "Dungeon Master" - what could beat that?

Nothing.

That game was so unique and wondrous to me that I had great difficulty describing it to others, being my first RPG it seemed to me there was no reference point from which to begin.

Also, great post. Good to read posts from people who actually bought those immortal classics as they "hit the shelves."
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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Well i never owned Dungeon Master CIB until the late 90's (although i bought DM2 when it came out, in 1993 i think?), but i played it with a friend on his Amiga around 90-91, taking turns on the choices and discussing the next move/who would get what loot etc. I usually got the mapping job.

What i liked most about Dungeon Master though was the real-time, like you could see your enemies and stuff, instead of stepping on a square and violá! you battle 16 serpents and two beggars ala Bard's Tale and early MM's, maybe Dungeon Master is responsible for my views on Might and Magic 3-5 as the best MM's of the series for me? prob, dunno.

Its was sad that we lost contact with eachother after 1995 when he moved away, he was the greatest friend ive had and a very good co RPG-player, i dunno how many hours we sank into Dungeon Master, MM2, Bard's Tale 1-2 or Dragon Wars together.
 

corvax

Augur
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This isn't really related but does anyone want Bard's Tale (the new one) on GOG? I got an extra gift code? Or Wasteland 1?
 

octavius

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So I finally got time to play some patched BT3 and created the following party:
Dwarf Paladin (premade) who will become a Geomancer
Human Monk
Elf Bard (premade)
Hobbit Rogue (premade)
Gnome Conjurer
Half-Elf Magician


My impressions so far:

Encounters are more boring than in BT1-2. In the Wilderness and ruins of Skara Brae there's no difference between night and day, and you meet only 1 group of enemies, with only 1 or 2 monsters in the group. So not much variation compared to BT1.

Melee weapons don't have range anymore. In BT2 polearms like Halberds could have a range of 20 feet. Not sure if missile weapons have variable ranges, though.

I started exploring The Catacombs when my Rogue (poor AC and low Hide in Shadows skill) got killed, so I went back to the Refuge Camp to replace him with someone that could use heavier armour until I could resurrect him. But the game keeps freezing when trying to Add Character. The game freezes and then crashed if I try to delete characters from the roster.

I don't see how I can complete the game if I can't replace or save characters once in a while, so unless the guy who made the patch can come up with a solution, this looks like the end of BT3 for me.
 
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Lord Azlan

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I don't see how I can complete the game if I can't replace or save characters once in a while, so unless the guy who made the patch can come up with a solution, this looks like the end of BT3 for me.

T's shame for sure - at least I got to re-live some of my early and greatest memories by going through BT1 recently - it really was as good as I remembered.

Might try BT3 as that was my favourite but I can't get away from the crappy two tone graphics on those early PCs.

However due to RPG Codex recommendations I recently bought Lords of Xulima and it seems okay so far - I like it.
 

octavius

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I was able to salvage my BT3 game thanks to patch maker drifing's magic. Turned out there was a major flaw in the original game if you had too many characters, which has now been fixed in an updated patch.

No Temple in the game really, really hurts. It means poisoned characters are dead meat until you get a lvl 4 Conjurer, unless you park them in the Refugee Camp. Unless there are items that can be used to resurrect characters, my Bard has taken up semi-permanent residence, and won't be back in action until I've developed a lvl 6 Wizard, which will take some time.

The encounter frequency is still extreme, but at least it's not as maddening as it was in BT1-2, since it's only checked when moving, turning or exiting from the character screen. But it takes bloody long time to get anywhere since the monsters do so much damage, there's no way to heal quickly except by spells, and there's no way to recover mana quickly except by using Harmony Gems.
 
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Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
I was able to salvage my BT3 game thanks to patch maker drifing's magic. Turned out there was a major flaw in the original game if you had too many characters, which has now been fixed in an updated patch.

No Temple in the game really, really hurts. It means poisoned characters are dead meat until you get a lvl 4 Conjurer, unless you park them in the Refugee Camp. Unless there are items that can be used to resurrect characters, my Bard has taken up semi-permanent residence, and won't be back in action until I've developed a lvl 6 Wizard, which will take some time.

The encounter frequency is still extreme, but at least it's not as maddening as it was in BT1-2, since it's only checked when moving, turning or exiting from the character screen. But it takes bloody long time to get anywhere since the monsters do so much damage, there's no way to heal quickly except by spells, and there's no way to recover mana quickly except by using Harmony Gems.
To get back HP's and Spell Points quickly (yep, it's hard in BT3) there is a trick if you really need it:

4. Bringaround Ballad: In non-combat situations, this rejuvenates the Bard's hit points. During combat, this song will affect everyone in your party, including the Bard.

5. Rhyme of Duotime: In non-combat situations, this regenerates the mage's spell points. During combat, it gives the party an extra attack.
Think you get back one hp back per turn in combat per 5 bard levels or something. Same with spell points. Start an "interparty combat" by pressing P and have everyone defend. Kinda tedious at low levels, but at higher levels, it is something to do if you don't want to cast a spell and want to bring the party back up to full hps. Also, every round of combat, have the Bard use the same song. It adds to the effect.
 

octavius

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I've been using Rhyme of Duetime a lot, since both the effects are so good.
Using Party combat is an interesting option; I guess it beats hanging around in sunlight or "magic squares" (not that I've found or noticed anyone yet) waiting for spell points to regenerate.

BTW just noticed that spell caster advancement been made harder in BT3. In BT1 you could go from lvl 5 Conjurer or Magician to Sorcerer, but in BT3 you need to be lvl 5+ in both base classes first.
 

octavius

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Decided to start BT3 over again with a maxed out party and explore the whole wilderness, and found a shrine where my party can get healing. This helps tremendously. Still, it's slow going with so many encounters. Too bad none of them are really interesting...
 

Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
Decided to start BT3 over again with a maxed out party and explore the whole wilderness, and found a shrine where my party can get healing. This helps tremendously. Still, it's slow going with so many encounters. Too bad none of them are really interesting...
Think things only get interesting when you get to Geledia and it starts to feel like there is a story. There are different sized levels, puzzles with multiple spells, and "boss" type encounters protecting items. You "meet" Hawkslayer or whatever, and you'll eventually freeze to death if you don't watch out. If you can, try to make it to Geledia before giving up. I actually think the game gets more interesting as you go along, with Nazi's showing up in the 6th zone or so, and very strong robots in the 4th (Urmech's.)
 

dragonbait

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Did you finish PoR or MM2? Those two are definitely something you should think about returning to. I probably played and finished each BT 2 or 3 times (except BT2, after the first time finishing, I hacked in the last wand instead of going through that last snare. All the previous were nothing compared to that last one.) However, I just don't think I have the stomach (or the time) for any of them now!

I've played through Pool of Radiance numerous times. I love that game. Here is an account of one of my playthroughs.
http://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/pool/dragonbait/PoR.html

I never did get around to finishing Might and Magic II. Perhaps I will someday.
 

octavius

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So which is longer? Wiz 7 or BT 3?
It takes forever to make any progress in BT3, with encounters every fucking time you just turn around to got your bearings, HP and SP depleting and Darkness squares sprinkled about, and a general "I hate you even more than Michael Cranford did" attitude of the whole game.

I don't understand why Wiz 1-3 are considered more difficult than the BT games. Sure, any individual combat in Wiz 1-3 is potentially more deadly, but at least you are able to progress at a steady pace; few games test your patience as much as the BT games.
 
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Daemongar

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So which is longer? Wiz 7 or BT 3?
Think BT3 can be done faster, as if you are familiar with the game, you can run to certain points to get clues, keys, whatever to finish a zone. On Wiz 7, there are lots of areas that can't be rushed. You can't get the ... uh... Yellow Waffer from the guards in New City until you are able to beat the Savant Troopers. You can't get on the island until you can swim well enough. You can't get into certain areas until you get certain maps or whatever. I just don't think you could do a speed run. However, BT3, well, if you know what you are doing you can run around and grab what you need and keep moving. The number of fights may be ridiculous, but this item or that is always in the same location. Once you are of a certain level, you get more SP and HP, but not that different. However, I'm more familiar with BT3 than Wiz7.

If anyone is interested in a speedrun of Wiz 7 while I do a speedrun of BT3, send me a message. I haven't played it in 10 years so may be rose colored glasses.

It takes forever to make any progress in BT3, with encounters every fucking time you just turn around to got your bearings, HP and SP depleting and Darkness squares sprinkled about, and a general "I hate you even more than Michael Cranford did" attitude of the whole game.
Well, as horrific as BT3 may be, I think BT2 really is "most brutal." Spinners, darkness, and damage squares in timed snares just felt like a kick in the balls when I first played the game. The part that people leave off the list of BT2 horrors is that ... you had to map (on paper) the Snares as well while you were running through them. Playing that game without a walkthrough, you had to map out the Snares on graph paper in real time while trying to solve them. So if you got spun around, you'd cast MACO and SCSI quick to see where you were, then move one square, case LERE, MACO, and SCSI and map it out, then get spun around and do the same.

The last snare in BT2 had a complex puzzle, limited time, and a huge area to map. That I only completed it once, and wouldn't again. Think it was all darkness, and you had to complete the sequence in the back of the BT2 manual just right. When finding encounters, i never had any idea if I moved to the next square or not when the fight would start, so I'd have to start the sequence over... and over... and over...
 

octavius

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Well, I can't remember many details about BT2, especially the last half. But I do remember completing it, and importing the characters when BT3 came out on the Amiga.
 

octavius

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Shit, things really starts to get hairy once you reach lvl 3 of UnterBrae, with monsters seemingly always acting first, calling for help faster than I can kill them, breathing and casting damage spells, and spamming Fire Elemental spells. At least I've got the Apport Arcane spell now, to semi-quickly get back and forth betweem Shrine/Review Board and the dungeon.

Also, seems my Monk is always taking more damage from spells and breath attacks than the other guys in my party. Is it for the sake of "balance" since his AC is so much lower than that of the other party members?
 
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Daemongar

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Codex Year of the Donut
Think that damage from breath spells comes down to a LUCK roll. BT follows the path of D&D with saving throws for half (or no) damage. Think the only ability it checks for saving throws is LUCK. If the Monk has a low LUCK skill, he'll take more damage. Check your MONKS DEX and LUCK vs other party members.

Also, did you see the Altered Bard's Tale Version with 4 Bonus Dungeons? I kind of am getting back into starting up a party through all 3 BT games (after I finish Two Worlds II), and saw this. Don't know much about it, but it is a C64 Disk image located here. Can't find any more info on it.
 

HiddenX

The Elder Spy
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Divinity: Original Sin Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Beware of the Herb in BT2:

His Name Strikes fear into the drunkest of bards. The worst part about encountering Herb is his annoying tendency to multiply. When he is summoned he doesn't just fight you, he overwhelms you. By the time you kill him he will have summoned another and another and yet another. So when I face him I usually ask myself 'will the experience points and the little gold I get out of this fight be worth the aggravation I know he is about to cause me?' For this update I will be going over Herb's weaknesses and his strengths.

The Facts

What started out as a simple melee of some mages and giants ends quite differently. The problem with Herb is that he usually isn't worth the trouble of fighting him. I usually run away (or try to kill the summoner before he can call a Herb).

His Strengths

Herb has a ton of hit points, starts out away from melee range, and replicates. So it can take a while to whip one or as it usually turns out around four of them. When in melee range the characters with lesser experience points generally can't touch him.

His Weaknesses

Herb spends most of his time filling up his ranks… Even when they are already filled. He rarely attacks and if he does you should be able to take the brunt of his attacks with ease. Since you may not be able to hit him too well think about throwable weapons; even at close range.

Battle Tactics

So here is the real question: 'How do you kill a Herb?' Well lets start with some simple ways to finish them off. For close range attacks use the stone blade (warrior/paladin), a critical hit (hunter), drums of death (bard), or deathstrike (magician spell) for melee range. For distance fighting have your bard play "The Archer's Tune." Then have your paladin, bard, and thief throw their Sword of Zar, Song Axe, and Aram's Knife respectively. For your magic users consider the dream spell and Mangar's Mallet. For a more difficult battle have your best experienced fighters go after Herb. A good monk or warrior can do some real damage and have your spell caster cast melee men and pull them all forward one at a time. When they are all within range you may want to refer to the simple ways to dispatch them listed above.

A Job Well Done

Unfortunately even though you just finished off a couple of Herb you might have wasted a handful of spell points and a lot of time. Because your next battle may be exactly the same thing. So to avoid this problem familiarize yourself with the monster spellcasters and kill them off before they can call in the big hitters or Herb for that matter. So you ask yourself again 'Is Herb worth the trouble?' Well I'll leave that up to you.
 

octavius

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Think that damage from breath spells comes down to a LUCK roll. BT follows the path of D&D with saving throws for half (or no) damage. Think the only ability it checks for saving throws is LUCK. If the Monk has a low LUCK skill, he'll take more damage. Check your MONKS DEX and LUCK vs other party members..

You were right. My Monk only has 8 Luck and my Bard, who is also a magnet for special attacks, have 10 Luck. The rest either have high Luck or is a Paladin.

Also, did you see the Altered Bard's Tale Version with 4 Bonus Dungeons? I kind of am getting back into starting up a party through all 3 BT games (after I finish Two Worlds II), and saw this. Don't know much about it, but it is a C64 Disk image located here. Can't find any more info on it

Yeah, I saw that the other day. Can't really say I'm tempted to replay BT1, though.
 

drifting

Educated
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Oct 8, 2014
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Think that damage from breath spells comes down to a LUCK roll. BT follows the path of D&D with saving throws for half (or no) damage. Think the only ability it checks for saving throws is LUCK. If the Monk has a low LUCK skill, he'll take more damage. Check your MONKS DEX and LUCK vs other party members.

Also, did you see the Altered Bard's Tale Version with 4 Bonus Dungeons? I kind of am getting back into starting up a party through all 3 BT games (after I finish Two Worlds II), and saw this. Don't know much about it, but it is a C64 Disk image located here. Can't find any more info on it.
BT3 uses the character level, luck, class and a 2d8 roll to determine the character saving throw.
 

dragonbait

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Below the ruins of Yulash

Bard's Talk! I like searching these old webpages with their old html code. It's getting harder to re-find these pages now on old Tripod, Angelfire sites etc. Geocities is long since gone.

Lots of these old sites can still be read with Major kudos and thanks to Archive.org!

Bard's Talk has been named one of the top 10 gaming websites of 2005 by fansitefrenzy.com

Bard's Tale FanFiction
Here is some interesting Bard's Tale Fanfiction posted to Doug B's Bardstalk site back in 2006..
http://web.archive.org/web/20060712194836/http://www.bardstalk.com/fanfic/

The Bard's Legacy on Angelfire

+ Devil Whiskey Mini-Site

:D
 
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dragonbait

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Below the ruins of Yulash
Think that damage from breath spells comes down to a LUCK roll. BT follows the path of D&D with saving throws for half (or no) damage. Think the only ability it checks for saving throws is LUCK. If the Monk has a low LUCK skill, he'll take more damage. Check your MONKS DEX and LUCK vs other party members.

Also, did you see the Altered Bard's Tale Version with 4 Bonus Dungeons? I kind of am getting back into starting up a party through all 3 BT games (after I finish Two Worlds II), and saw this. Don't know much about it, but it is a C64 Disk image located here. Can't find any more info on it.
BT3 uses the character level, luck, class and a 2d8 roll to determine the character saving throw.
Hello Drifting! Nice to see another Adventurer's Guild member here on the RPG Codex. :salute:

Be careful though, this is the dark side of the internet.
:popamole::P
 

Daemongar

Arcane
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Codex Year of the Donut
Think that damage from breath spells comes down to a LUCK roll. BT follows the path of D&D with saving throws for half (or no) damage. Think the only ability it checks for saving throws is LUCK. If the Monk has a low LUCK skill, he'll take more damage. Check your MONKS DEX and LUCK vs other party members.

Also, did you see the Altered Bard's Tale Version with 4 Bonus Dungeons? I kind of am getting back into starting up a party through all 3 BT games (after I finish Two Worlds II), and saw this. Don't know much about it, but it is a C64 Disk image located here. Can't find any more info on it.
BT3 uses the character level, luck, class and a 2d8 roll to determine the character saving throw.
Well, I'll ask: what is the comparison done to? That is, I am level 10, luck of 13, is there a difficulty associated with each spell? Or is each enemy caster given a level that the player must beat?
 

drifting

Educated
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
16
Well, I'll ask: what is the comparison done to? That is, I am level 10, luck of 13, is there a difficulty associated with each spell? Or is each enemy caster given a level that the player must beat?
Each monster type has a range for their save value. A caster rolls a number in that range and that is the number the player has to beat.
 

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