The Codex, common decency, and Pete Hines

[FrancoTAU]

There is a difference between a community that harboring a few wild kids, to a community that is overrun by them. In the last year this place, as a whole, turn in to something that some people here don't want to affiliate themselves with.

I think you're overanalyzing it a bit. I'm sure to a certain degree that might be true, but I think plowing through a lot of useless, unfunny, and uninteresting posts that are filled with vulgarity for vulgarity's sake is the main reason why some have become disenchanted with the Codex.

VD, what about the Codex was irking you more? The perception by the outside world or just dumb posters?

EDIT to Twinfalls last post - I never understood why we didn't try some kind of trial run for VD's plan. I'm not a fan of indiscriminate perma bans, but we should start temp banning for a couple days or weeks to people who start threads that are obvious retardo land like, post NSFW pics, purposly derailing thread topics with stupid shit, etc.

 

[Jasede]

It's not like we didn't try telling them before, TAU, Twinfalls.

But maybe they'll listen to you! I hope so. Though I think VD already "moved on".

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Franco:

The latter. Only the latter.

And I wouldn't say dumb posters. Spacemoose isn't dumb, but he thought that lulzing was more fun than doing anything else. The overall atmosphere lately was encouraging dumb behavior and that's what I wanted to change.

 

[Jasede]

There's really absolutely nothing that would make you admins reconsider? Or that would make you, VD, reconsider if we somehow convinced the admins to let you have the horrible "reign of terror"? I mean there -was- a poll which was a bit like DU turning the knife, and I think it would be for the best. And I can't believe other's don't agree.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nothing. Can we move on now?

 

[obediah]

Can I remind everyone that Pete Hines is a working father whose job is PR, the promotion of his company's games?

So what? How many working fathers have been imprisoned over the years for trying to support their kids? How many were found guilty of war crimes at Nuremberg?

The points being made were firstly that PR is his goddam job

Again, so what? His execution of that job is despicable. It doesn't matter if that is by personal excuse or corporate mandate, he is responsible for his own actions.

and secondly that he has children who presumably access the internet.

What's your point? He gave up his right to privacy when he took a job in PUBLIC[/c] relations. As much as he speaks to the masses, he should expect them to speak back.

Two pretty solid reasons to see the vile personal stuff as beyond the pale.

What I have seen about Pete, paints him as a vile person.

Oh turn it up. Anyone making decisions on whether to buy a game based on what the publisher's PR man has to say deserves whatever they get.

Only because of people like Pete that are redefining how PR is done for a game in development. The appropriate response is to criticize the fuck out of his deceptive practices and praise PR people that offer a more honest and sincere description of their game.

And there's a difference between not showing respect, and plastering up bashing and rape fantasies in a general tide of 'fucking pete hines what a fucking lying cunt shitbag nazi douche he should be killed'. Which still hasn't stopped after how many years now?

What kind of ninja debate shit is this? You cut out the last paragraph of my post, rephrase it, and then post it as if I had taken the opposite stance.

 

[kingcomrade]

Let me explain this to you with a simple equation:

Codex + Twinfalls > Codex

You are in danger of e-nitpicking.

Anyways, Twinfalls is right, the over-the-top venom is pretty lame, but I think as the average age of the Codex poster falls it's only going to get more common.

 

[obediah]

Invite VD back to admin status and let him delete, perma-ban, whatever it takes to de-lulz the place.

I am so ready to move on, but I can't allow people to build up this revisionist history. VD may have intended to wage war on the lulz, but he wasn't. He was waging war against posters that offended his own ethics. He even promoted the king of lulz to GD moderator.

I think a lot of people would have been more receptive of a no-lulz codex, than a lulz (but only if it doesn't get VD's panties in a bunch) codex.

 

[Naked Ninja]

The problem is the hatred is directed at a "crime" that is painted far out of proportion with the reality. Vile? He is vile? Oh come on. Rapists and murderers are vile. He is just a salesman. Do you guys also write rape/murder fantasies about the used car salesman who exaggerates as he promotes his used vehicles?

Despicable? You're taking this shit too seriously. When I walk down the street and a vendor describes their fruit as "the most delicious I will ever taste" and then I bite into it and it isn't actually, I don't fly off the handle and berate him for half an hour. Because I'm a grown-up and realise the realities of sales/salespeople. Honestly now. Give it a rest.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Again, so what? His execution of that job is despicable.

What I have seen about Pete, paints him as a vile person.

Does that bullshit come with some kind of arguments and proofs? Or have we reached the point where it's no longer necessary and frowned upon?

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

The points being made were firstly that PR is his goddam job, and secondly that he has children who presumably access the internet. Two pretty solid reasons to see the vile personal stuff as beyond the pale.

Well hey, the PR people pushing cigarettes on children are just doing their jobs, too. Doesn't change the fact that they're scum (and the better they are at their jobs, the scummier, I say).

 

[kingcomrade]

The points being made were firstly that PR is his goddam job, and secondly that he has children who presumably access the internet. Two pretty solid reasons to see the vile personal stuff as beyond the pale.

Well hey, the PR people pushing cigarettes on children are just doing their jobs, too. Doesn't change the fact that they're scum (and the better they are at their jobs, the scummier, I say).

And the Nazis who were exterminating the Jews were just doing their jobs, too, thus exterminating Nazis, cigarette salesmen, and video game hypers are all on the same moral plane.

 

[Lumpy]

Oblivion is a great game from the mainstream perspective - just because we hate it doesn't mean it sucks.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

The points being made were firstly that PR is his goddam job, and secondly that he has children who presumably access the internet. Two pretty solid reasons to see the vile personal stuff as beyond the pale.

Well hey, the PR people pushing cigarettes on children are just doing their jobs, too. Doesn't change the fact that they're scum (and the better they are at their jobs, the scummier, I say).

And the Nazis who were exterminating the Jews were just doing their jobs, too, thus exterminating Nazis, cigarette salesmen, and video game hypers are all on the same moral plane.

The Nazis and cigarette salesmen may break little children's bodies, (bad) video game hypers destroy their fragile little souls.

 

[Lumpy]

Let me explain this to you with a simple equation:

Codex + Twinfalls > Codex

You are in danger of e-nitpicking.

Anyways, Twinfalls is right, the over-the-top venom is pretty lame, but I think as the average age of the Codex poster falls it's only going to get more common.

It seems to have calmed down a bit lately, but the Fallout 3 and Latter-day Oblivion criticism was quite disgusting some time ago.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Twin kind of has a point, but what's with the "his children might stumble across the codex and read the awful stuff" argument? That's some typical bullshit argument for every form of censorship in the US these days. His kids aren't going to stumble upon this site unless they're older teens or Pete leaves it bookmarked on his home PC.

 

[Cassidy]

At this rate, it won't take long before "Stop bashing Oblivion! Lots of people spent YEARS working hard to develop it and you are criticizing their arduous effort?" arguments start surfacing around. Though the more sarcastic and wittier the bashing the better of course, and lately both characteristics are dwindling while the quantity of bashing isn't. A hype-guys amiable, politically correct forum isn't the way to go and this "he is just doing his job" thing is very questionable.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The issue in question here is not the criticism but its quality (or lack thereof).

 

[obediah]

The problem is the hatred is directed at a "crime" that is painted far out of proportion with the reality. Vile? He is vile? Oh come on. Rapists and murderers are vile. He is just a salesman.

Context! Context! Context!

Pete is not my father, neighbor, babysitter, or local mayor. The only thing I can judge him as is the front man for Bethesda. And in that context of educating me about upcoming Bethesda products, he is a vile, despicable man.

Do you guys also write rape/murder fantasies about the used car salesman who exaggerates as he promotes his used vehicles?

Where did I advocate rape/murder fantasies about Pete? (HINT: I didn't) I may think Pete evil, but I think a reaction should be considered in the same context as his transgressions - i.e. keep the media away from him or educate the masses to his true intentions.

Despicable? You're taking this shit too seriously.

Trust me, I'm not.

When I walk down the street and a vendor describes their fruit as "the most delicious I will ever taste" and then I bite into it and it isn't actually, I don't fly off the handle and berate him for half an hour. Because I'm a grown-up and realise the realities of sales/salespeople. Honestly now. Give it a rest.

I'm sorry that you are too young or sheltered to have seen PR for a game that was excited but not deceptive. But you are allowed to expect more from the people pimping video games, it used to be like that more often, but some people still do it.

Bethesda even mocks this style with their FO3 previews. How many variations of the "If you are a bitter old ass that thinks the most important part of fallout was the headaches caused from trying to view the quaint, barely discernable, old graphics systems, and an archaic, cumbersome, dreadfully boring combat system, then our game is not for you." On the amazingly thin surface, there is a genuine warning to certain people that this is not the game for them. But it is actually just an attempt to vaccinate the retarded masses against any critical comparison between FO3 and FO/FO2.

Again, so what? His execution of that job is despicable.

What I have seen about Pete, paints him as a vile person.

Does that bullshit come with some kind of arguments and proofs?

What - you want me to dig up all the news posts and resulting threads (many of which you initiated) showing the deceitful nature of Bethesda's promotion of Oblivion and Fall Out 3?

Or have we reached the point where it's no longer necessary and frowned upon?

I don't follow. How would the bazillions of comments we have from Pete contrasted with the realities of Oblivion not be enough to judge him as a source of information for Bethesda games? Are you recanting your many criticisms and now endorsing him as PR #1 Guy Forever, because some retards made a death comic or whatever?

 

[Ivy Mike]

You know that the very thing you recommended was what brought about the ousting of VD in the first place right, Twinfalls? Anyway, that discussion has been done and nothing new will come from it. The Caliphate decided the lulz purging is off, and that's the way it'll be. For better or worse.

Invite VD back to admin status and let him delete, perma-ban, whatever it takes to de-lulz the place. Apply a strict time-frame after which you revert back to non-moderation.

You only sell you soul to the devil once, and he ain't giving it back. :VD:

EDIT: Shit, there was two pages of rampant shit-flinging already? How did I miss that. Ignore this post.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What - you want me to dig up all the news posts and resulting threads (many of which you initiated) showing the deceitful nature of Bethesda's promotion of Oblivion and Fall Out 3?

Fall Out? Anyway, if you think that lying is vile and despicable your Victorian-era ethics outperform my own at a 1000:1 ratio.

 

[Koby]

I think you're overanalyzing it a bit.

Maybe.

I'm sure to a certain degree that might be true, but I think plowing through a lot of useless, unfunny, and uninteresting posts that are filled with vulgarity for vulgarity's sake is the main reason why some have become disenchanted with the Codex.

I see the link, or the the relationship if you may, between the outside appearance to growing amount of shit in this place as a very significant factor. The outside appearance is in by it self the biggest attraction to new members, for good or bad. I think most of the time people underestimating the connection between the two.

 

[Volourn]

It's real simple (even though VD and DU have pretty much DOA the discussion); I'd like to see VD back writing, and moderating this site as long a she doesn't go haywire on the bannings, warnings, and whatnot.

But, alas, it is doomed. VD is, despite my criticisms of him, cool writing newsposts/reviews/and even modertaion (until recently that is).

Ah well.. c'est la vie.

 

[obediah]

What - you want me to dig up all the news posts and resulting threads (many of which you initiated) showing the deceitful nature of Bethesda's promotion of Oblivion and Fall Out 3?

Fall Out? Anyway, if you think that lying is vile and despicable your Victorian-era ethics outperform my own at a 1000:1 ratio.

Thank you. I don't get many compliments. :D

 

[Cthulhugoat]

I know this is off topic and should in no way be taken into account in the discussion that will hopefully follow this thread, but:

Twinfalls! Just come back and teach them the proper way again. And with them I mean us. This place isn't the same without you, especially with all the old guys vanishing...

Let me explain this to you with a simple equation:

Codex + Twinfalls > Codex

TWINFALLS UR AWESOME THE CODEX CANT BE AWESOME WITHOUT U I SUCK UR COCK GURGLE GURGLE