The Codex of Roguelikes

[Hobo Elf]

It's been a while since I played ToME, so maybe I remember incorrectly, but isn't that how the automap is supposed to look like? Colors and all?

 

[nomask7]

It's been a while since I played ToME, so maybe I remember incorrectly, but isn't that how the automap is supposed to look like? Colors and all?

Explored areas are supposed to be dark brown so you can distinguish them from unexplored areas. At least that's how it sometimes looks like, so I'm assuming this confusing thingie with the background color coming through everywhere is a bug.

 

[nomask7]

So, I decided to buy ADOM and play that instead, since TOME is so buggy. I was somewhat apprehensive, since the free version seemed feature complete and a dev adding features just to sell a game isn't good. But I thought to myself, how bad could it be? And at least I wouldn't have to refresh my memory about the complex control scheme.

So I play a few games to get used to the new graphics and control scheme, die a few times, then I'm ready to do a proper run. Doing good. Obv. It's just early game, no biggie. Half an hour into it, SAY HELLO TO PLAYER GHOST, FUCKER!! Spawns randomly, drains stats like mad (permanently), very tough. Spawned in the very first quest dungeon. Left my hardy warrior a cripple with at least 4 points of strength and toughness drained each. When I died I actually got a score that was in the minus! It wasn't recorded because you need at least one score point in order to be recorded.

Ooookay. Disable feature with a config hack. Wish ADOM had a therapy game mode where you recover from your past experiences with the game and acquire the motivation to play again.

 

[Damned Registrations]

ADOM is clearly too easy and needed player ghosts. You were just doing it wrong by not spending the first half hour stair scumming safely for gear.

 

[Hobo Elf]

So, I decided to buy ADOM and play that instead, since TOME is so buggy. I was somewhat apprehensive, since the free version seemed feature complete and a dev adding features just to sell a game isn't good. But I thought to myself, how bad could it be? And at least I wouldn't have to refresh my memory about the complex control scheme.

So I play a few games to get used to the new graphics and control scheme, die a few times, then I'm ready to do a proper run. Doing good. Obv. It's just early game, no biggie. Half an hour into it, SAY HELLO TO PLAYER GHOST, FUCKER!! Spawns randomly, drains stats like mad (permanently), very tough. Spawned in the very first quest dungeon. Left my hardy warrior a cripple with at least 4 points of strength and toughness drained each. When I died I actually got a score that was in the minus! It wasn't recorded because you need at least one score point in order to be recorded.

Ooookay. Disable feature with a config hack. Wish ADOM had a therapy game mode where you recover from your past experiences with the game and acquire the motivation to play again.

Just get Caves of Qud. It's the best commercial roguelike out there. ADOM was always a piece of shit. Dunno why you'd bother.

 

[nomask7]

Just get Caves of Qud. It's the best commercial roguelike out there.

Hadn't heard of that. Looks very interesting, but a bit too early access right now.

 

[getter77]

Heh, both games are good and only primed to get better from here with more meaty updates ahead of them----quite a sight to behold really considering how far back each project goes that they would now ascend such heights at long last.

ADOM is definitely an acquired taste though.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Just get Caves of Qud. It's the best commercial roguelike out there.

Hadn't heard of that. Looks very interesting, but a bit too early access right now.

Caves of Qud will probably be Early Access from now until the end of times, just so you know. It's a forever project as far as I can tell.

 

[Zdzisiu]

Just get Caves of Qud. It's the best commercial roguelike out there.

Hadn't heard of that. Looks very interesting, but a bit too early access right now.

Caves of Qud will probably be Early Access from now until the end of times, just so you know. It's a forever project as far as I can tell.

Btw, how complete is it now? How much content is in it for the moment? Can it be finished yet? What level can you get? How many locations can you visit?

I remember playing it waaay back when it wasnt yet on steam, and there seemed not to be that much content beyond the first village and some locations on the world map.

 

[nomask7]

Caves of Qud will probably be Early Access from now until the end of times, just so you know. It's a forever project as far as I can tell.

It's not that. Just hard to get into it when they're still doing updates that make your save games not work, and they haven't completed the main story. They're also updating the game every Friday, so just waiting for a month gives me four more updates.

I'll get it once the main story is complete or they have stopped updating it regularly, whichever comes first.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Might be a long wait.

Speaking about updates Cogmind should be updated to alpha 11 during next week.
http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=591.0

 

[Hobo Elf]

Just get Caves of Qud. It's the best commercial roguelike out there.

Hadn't heard of that. Looks very interesting, but a bit too early access right now.

Caves of Qud will probably be Early Access from now until the end of times, just so you know. It's a forever project as far as I can tell.

Btw, how complete is it now? How much content is in it for the moment? Can it be finished yet? What level can you get? How many locations can you visit?

I remember playing it waaay back when it wasnt yet on steam, and there seemed not to be that much content beyond the first village and some locations on the world map.

Dunno how complete the game is supposed to be % wise, but you can't complete the main quest of the game yet. I'd say there's about 15-20 hours worth of content - provided that you don't die, of course. I haven't hit level cap but it's quite high and there are no restrictions to your character builds in the current state of the game. Everything is in as far as that is concerned. There are more areas to be visited after Joppa, but I think 50% of the PoIs might still be missing. I'm guessing 50% since the other half of the map isn't explored in the main quest yet. Or it's possible that there are places that I just haven't visited yet. There's one town that I know of that you can visit and it isn't part of the main quest, at least not yet.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Dunno how complete the game is supposed to be % wise, but you can't complete the main quest of the game yet. I'd say there's about 15-20 hours worth of content - provided that you don't die, of course. I haven't hit level cap but it's quite high and there are no restrictions to your character builds in the current state of the game. Everything is in as far as that is concerned. There are more areas to be visited after Joppa, but I think 50% of the PoIs might still be missing. I'm guessing 50% since the other half of the map isn't explored in the main quest yet. Or it's possible that there are places that I just haven't visited yet. There's one town that I know of that you can visit and it isn't part of the main quest, at least not yet.

There are no level caps however there are soft caps in the game. And yes, the game is about 50% complete and I'm guessing that they're holding off just for the official release. It's much easier than your average RL but is much less cheesier in regards to your death.

Heh, both games are good and only primed to get better from here with more meaty updates ahead of them----quite a sight to behold really considering how far back each project goes that they would now ascend such heights at long last.

ADOM is definitely an acquired taste though.

Yeah, ADOM is definitely an acquired taste but I think Elona+ helps in that regard where it eases some of the barrier. I'm a newcomer to ADOM but I've definitely sunk more hours on it than CoQ or any other traditional RL except maybe Poschengband/*bands/Elona+ and massively prefer it.

I'm probably one of the minority where I actually liked the tile version of ADOM. (One of the best purchases I've made)

 

[getter77]

Elona+ has some acquired tastes all to itself, but the main issue there is just the juggle of the english translation getting as close to caught up with the Jp releases alongside, IIRC, nobody having any idea what the broad roadmap the project inheritors are working towards.

With ADOM and Biskup's team, at least, they are finally nearly there on the remaining chunk of the crowd funding goals as well as adapting some of the core improvements from ADOM II's early alpha jaunt. ADOM II's future is the real tricky bit given the odd way things have worked out both on the technological backend and ADOM's presence on Steam and such---but I'm optimistic for understanding the bigger picture.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

https://madguy.itch.io/streets-of-rogue

I have played this a bit.
It's sort of rogue-lite and it claims to be "Binding of Isaac meets Deus Ex".
There still isn't any ultimate goal in game; just series of levels with smaller missions (kill these dudes, get this item, free slave...etc) that you must do before you can go to next level.

Youtube let's play behind spoiler for those who are for that sort of things.

Spoiler

edit
http://store.steampowered.com/app/512900/

 

[nomask7]

Played another game of WazHack, a side-scrolling hardcore roguelike. Had a good run going until I ran into a Queen Bee in a dark room. That was brutal. That was my best run so far Usually I forget to do something important or make some stupid mistake before I get to depth level 600, but this time was strictly an unexpected ass rape in the dark.

I want to recommend the game, especially to anyone who feels pulled toward ADOM, unique and unforgiving, and feels extremely polished. It's more 'economical' in its world design - basically just a dungeon with small levels that you go deeper and deeper into, and the deeper you go, the harder the enemies get. You can only do a little bit of exploration or grinding, no "grind to win" or any exploits that I'm aware of. It has optional challenges in the form of doors or holes in the background that you can explore for extra xp and loot, they can be risky, risk evaluation is part of succeeding in this game. There's rather a lot of loot, some of it is very good even early on, much of how well you'll do is about managing to evaluate the value of (most of) what you find and avoiding wearing cursed items. Unlike in ADOM, anyone can use magic scrolls, same for wands. I've found Valkyrie to be a good noob-friendly character. Others might be too heavily dependent on altars and scrolls of identify.

It's a commercial game that's on Steam, but there's a demo that can be played online: http://www.wazhack.com/play

I love the soundtrack and mood of the game.

 

[getter77]

Heh, Wazhack is nifty indeed---but the target audience there is Nethack players for whom it is a familiar, yet alien, mirror far moreso than ADOM folks. The dev has been hard at it for years now, though updates are extremely sporadic.

 

[Damned Registrations]

https://madguy.itch.io/streets-of-rogue

I have played this a bit.
It's sort of rogue-lite and it claims to be "Binding of Isaac meets Deus Ex".
There still isn't any ultimate goal in game; just series of levels with smaller missions (kill these dudes, get this item, free slave...etc) that you must do before you can go to next level.

Youtube let's play behind spoiler for those who are for that sort of things.

Spoiler

edit
http://store.steampowered.com/app/512900/

That looks pretty awesome from the bit of the LP I looked at. Setting bombs on doors then knocking on them to lure people over, people being passive until you go into rooms you're not supposed to, tranq guns having delayed effects but build up faster with multiple shots. Game has good attention to detail and seems to have a lot of content.

 

[nomask7]

Heh, Wazhack is nifty indeed---but the target audience there is Nethack players for whom it is a familiar, yet alien, mirror far moreso than ADOM folks. The dev has been hard at it for years now, though updates are extremely sporadic.

Yeah, well, haven't played Nethack, beyond maybe trying it a little years ago. ADOM was my first experience with roguelikes, and still pretty much the only experience with unforgiving roguelikes beside Wazhack. I'd say if a person likes ADOM for the reasons I did, chances are they will love Wazhack, though as I said it's a more compressed experience.

Also, regarding updates, it doesn't seem like there's any reason to update the game at this point other than possible bug fixes (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[Emmanuel2]

I want to recommend the game, especially to anyone who feels pulled toward ADOM, unique and unforgiving, and feels extremely polished. It's more 'economical' in its world design - basically just a dungeon with small levels that you go deeper and deeper into, and the deeper you go, the harder the enemies get. You can only do a little bit of exploration or grinding, no "grind to win" or any exploits that I'm aware of. It has optional challenges in the form of doors or holes in the background that you can explore for extra xp and loot, they can be risky, risk evaluation is part of succeeding in this game. There's rather a lot of loot, some of it is very good even early on, much of how well you'll do is about managing to evaluate the value of (most of) what you find and avoiding wearing cursed items. Unlike in ADOM, anyone can use magic scrolls, same for wands. I've found Valkyrie to be a good noob-friendly character. Others might be too heavily dependent on altars and scrolls of identify.

Wazhack is much more akin to a "turn-based" sidescrolling nethack that attempts to fix nethack's own issues while keeping intact most of the "nethack". Which is why valkyrie is still good, why there are optional areas, why consumables are extremely essential to the point that they're build defining, why the grind isn't comparable to ADOM, why fountains are both life-threateningly dangerous and life saving and thankfully no gnomes with wands of death.

As a person who didn't really delve into Nethack (not my cup of rogue) but loved ADOM, Wazhack is a nice (like all other roguelikes are) but very, very different alternative. I'd say that if someone wants a much "lighter" ADOM or just a different/larger spin on its mechanics, Elona+ with the English fanpatch would be great for them.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I never really understood the whining over gnomes with wands of death. For every one of those you'll find like 20 wishes. Get reflection, scrubs.

 

[nomask7]

Pretty much everything seems to be essential in Wazhack. I just discovered the wonders of "wands of teleportation". Made me feel like I was finally out of noob territory and could use my session to ascend much higher in the online ladder, but then I managed to die at depth level 600 again - when my wand kept missing a gnome mech that was climbing stairs and turning me into mincemeat with his wand of striking. Ugh. Not even sure it wasn't a bug. Other monsters teleported nicely with one strike. Should try targeting myself next time this happens.

 

[Emmanuel2]

I never really understood the whining over gnomes with wands of death. For every one of those you'll find like 20 wishes. Get reflection, scrubs.

Oh it's not whining, it's just one of those trademark little things that just makes the experience that much better and "raw" despite being easily countered. I'll never forget the first time I randomly died to a gnome with a wand of death and it was a good run too.

 

[getter77]

As to Wazhack updates, folks thought that years ago---but then the dev just added more good content/classes/etc and polished things up that much more, so here we are. I suppose it just happens as it does, oddly not so unlike Nethack updates of old or recently with the dev team essentially restarting.

Of course, if you are hankering for outright classc ADOM competition---Shadow of the Wyrm is one as it closes in on The Standard roughly monthly by paces and leaps as it does: http://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

New version of Cogmind is out

Change log behind spoilers
http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=599.0

Spoiler

The full Alpha 11 (0.10.161011) changelog:

* NEW: Branch map "Testing"
* NEW: Branch map "Quarantine"
* NEW: Branch map "[redacted]"
* NEW: 55 new items (total now at 739)
* NEW: 10 more alien artifacts
* NEW: 6 unique items
* NEW: 10 superweapons
* NEW: 13 prototype robots (including new classes)
* NEW: 1 new common robot class (2 variants)
* NEW: 1 major new NPC (unique robot class)
* NEW: 51 new machines
* NEW: Taking electromagnetic damage animates HUD window borders (scales with damage, and can be disabled via Corruption Glitches option)
* NEW: Item swap assist UI feature (Ctrl-RMB on attached or inventory item, or '/' followed by a~z/1~0)
* NEW: Part-based volley time manipulation mechanic
* NEW: Disposable heat sink/coolant injection mechanic
* NEW: Momentum boost mechanic
* NEW: Thermal cannons with a charge effect include a UI-draining animation while preparing to fire
* NEW: Access points discovered via terrain scanning, Layout(Zone) hacks, or drone spotters all now auto-labeled as if seen within FOV
* NEW: Movement blocked for a short duration after spotting a new enemy (adjustable via options menu)
* NEW: Inserting unidentified prototypes in a Scanalyzer automatically identifies them
* NEW: Equipping (or swapping in) a known faulty prototype requires confirmation
* NEW: Non-part item info includes general category description
* NEW: Non-part item info shows inventory slot count (now that some might require more than 1)
* NEW: Segregator and Tearclaws info includes explicit descriptions of their unique mechanics
* NEW: All Maneuvering Thrusters / Reaction Control Systems also provide automatic +1 to effective momentum for melee attacks and ramming
* NEW: State information available for items on the ground as well, where the info page reflects their non-functional or temporarily disabled status
* NEW: Option to completely disable manual hacking code assistance, added by request (cogmind.cfg only: see disableManualHackingHelp)
* NEW: Confirm ally command targets with KP5 or Enter (alternatives to 'o' and LMB)
* NEW: Score sheet meta data includes current lore and gallery collection percentages
* NEW: Score sheet includes breakdown of critical strikes
* NEW: Scores and basic stats from all local runs also recorded in /user/scorehistory.txt
* NEW: Tutorial message explains bump-to-talk mechanic for robots with dialogue on the first time spotted
* NEW: Messages for insufficient slots/inventory space on attaching/picking up items report size of item in question
* NEW: /user/ files (config, meta data, command buffer, save...) automatically backed up to /bak/ once per day for emergency recovery purposes
* NEW: All supporter names registered since Alpha 10 added to in-game list (see Credits menu)
* NEW: All item-attribution names registered since Alpha 10 added to the item collection gallery
* MOD: B-90 Cyclops buffed with new type of utility
* MOD: Fighter/Swordsman Duelist variants buffed with new type of utility
* MOD: Minimum volley time reduced from 100 to 25
* MOD: Increased Cold Fusion Reactor energy output
* MOD: Increased effect of Network Hub destruction by 50%
* MOD: Coolant Network dissipation effect +10 (=90), integrity +100
* MOD: Component Analysis Suite converted from duration-based to random application, effects much more frequent
* MOD: System Backup/Restoration utilities converted from duration-based to random application, effect frequency slightly increased
* MOD: Mining Laser/Welding Torch/Plasma Cutters converted from Special Weapons to Special Melee Weapons; enables bump-to-attack
* MOD: Weakened Hub_04(d) defenses
* MOD: Behemoths are more aggressive
* MOD: AI-controlled flying robots out of view can no longer jump other robots at no extra time cost (easier to shake Swarmers with a fast build)
* MOD: Lowered high-tier drone bay ratings, making them somewhat easier to fabricate
* MOD: Parts list integrity visualization always shows at least one bar, even where high-integrity parts are approaching 0
* MOD: Operators can no longer be stationed at unique named terminals
* MOD: Implicit bump-to-melee-attack works on all permanently disabled robots found in cave regions, rather than only some of them
* MOD: No warning shown when moving onto traps that will not trigger, e.g. treading into a stasis trap
* MOD: Signal Interpreters activated while adjacent to an exit can determine where it leads on the next turn without requiring a move
* MOD: State changes in sight range-modifying utilities update FOV on each new turn without requiring a move
* MOD: Garrison access points much less likely to be found near each other
* MOD: Important NPCs that follow player now stick closer by instead of running off to engage or chase down hostiles
* MOD: AI distress signals only go out to armed and active (or dormant) allies (excludes rebooting/disrupted/broken/unpowered/disarmed bots)
* MOD: Large heavy/blast door resistance against melee attacks increased
* MOD: Buffed Greatsword damage
* MOD: Falx better differentiated from Power Sword--slower but more damaging, and much higher critical chance
* MOD: Efficiency of all Thermal Generators more than doubled
* MOD: Non-resistant armors' integrity +50%
* MOD: Resistant armors' integrity +100%; also more rare
* MOD: Reflective/Insulated armors heavier
* MOD: Reactive/Reflective/Insulated armor naming scheme changed to types of "Plating"
* MOD: All part-Shielding integrity increased approximately 50%
* MOD: Stasis link color changed from green to purple to match newer stasis-related mechanics
* MOD: Stasis field strength around self/allies reported to log in dark orange instead of dark green
* MOD: Data Core description explicitly indicates base duration before expiry
* MOD: Molecular Deconstructor damage type changed to match effect description
* MOD: Cannibalization Unit effect description explicitly states that required duration is part-dependent
* MOD: Adv. Integration Mediator effect changed from -99% to -90%
* MOD: All Integration Mediators apply effect to energy costs of equip/unequip as well; also increased mass
* MOD: Sensor Array and Terrain Scanner effect descriptions explicitly state scans performed on a per-turn basis
* MOD: Zion generally contains some number of derelict logs
* MOD: Destroying unpowered and permanently broken robots no longer counts towards score/kills
* MOD: Fleeing combat robots rearmed by Mechanics will reengage hostiles immediately rather than continuing to original goal
* MOD: Evasion status summary hotkey switched from '/' to '\'
* MOD: Removed from options menu: "Auto-wait on Low EN" (still available via cogmind.cfg as "autoWait")
* MOD: Screenshots output to /screenshots/ rather than base directory
* MOD: Win speed bonus score formula now = (50000000/turns); previously ((8000-turns)*5)
* MOD: Score sheet excludes a wider variety of entries where their value is zero
* MOD: Hvy. Battle Rifle rating dropped from 5 to 4
* FIX: Failed to tally score on ending a game with no inventory items (regression fixed in earlier stealth update, credited here: [zxc])
* FIX: Crash while equipping a certain secret item from the inventory via swap command [zxc]
* FIX: Network Hub destruction alert reported old/incorrect efficiency value [Decker]
* FIX: Results of a particular major event (spoiler) did not propagate to all expected circumstances [Decker]
* FIX: A different particular major event (spoiler) could wipe some previously-learned manual hacking codes [Decker]
* FIX: Switching to a different monitor or changing the desktop resolution between games didn't perfectly resize the font and map dimensions [@phi6]
* FIX: Description for Motion Trail Duration option referenced older default value [Amphouse]
* FIX: Burnout entry in propulsion data listing displayed a faint 'N' in front of valid non-zero single digit values [Amphouse]
* FIX: Receiving Backup parts from a Repair Station or Mechanic didn't count as having attached them for gallery collection purposes [Amphouse]
* FIX: Exit positions forgotten to corruption would still show exit labels [Amphouse, magi163]
* FIX: All derelict class destruction counts were recorded incorrectly in score sheets (since Alpha 8 ) [Amphouse]
* FIX: Routes through through Waste or a Garrison caused score sheet to record incorrect core remaining percent [Sherlockkat, Amphouse]
* FIX: Analysis accuracy bonus as displayed in robot info was always +0 (but correct value was applied) [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Attempting to insert unidentified prototypes into a Scanalyzer revealed their true name [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Melee Analysis Suites provided 100 times the stated benefit [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Guided weapon waypoints could path through, but not be set to, wall rubble locations [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Weapons that failed to fire due to system corruption still applied their heat/recoil effects [Kalkkis]
* FIX: During a particular cave encounter a Sentry could request backup even while rebooting after a Datajack hack [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Mouse-scrolling a schematic list greater than 26 items before any selection, then selecting one via LMB, selected the wrong item [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Repair Station vAl.05a was the only interactive machine with a shape that that might eject an item to an unexpected location [Kalkkis]
* FIX: A stalled one-way network connection could hang the game on exit (now quits after 5 seconds) [Chad]
* FIX: Font and map dimensions not automatically set for largest size possible with resolutions above 1440p [veryfoodverygood]
* FIX: Part autoswapping to a different item of same category where there are multiple options might choose the one with less integrity [zxc]
* FIX: Long item names could cause truncation of output message for damage during Scanalyzer analysis [zxc]
* FIX: Incorrect word in component fabrication time context help message [Amphouse]
* FIX: Typo in manual section on Hackware [Amphouse]
* FIX: Typo in Stasis Canceller effect description [Kalkkis]
* FIX: Loading a game with a status-caused glowing UI border effect in progress (overheating/low integrity/stasis) would not resume the animation
* FIX: Thermal damage context help indicated incorrect amount of heat transfer (based on half damage, not full damage)
* FIX: Score sheet "Robots Hacked" total wasn't including all possible cases