The Deus Ex: Human Revolution Thread: Director's Cut™

[Glyphwright]

I've finally gotten around to playing the third installment in the famous cyber-punk Deus Ex action game with RPG elements series. I played the original Deus Sex about half a dozen times, and I've never played Deus Ex: Invisible War because it won't install properly on my PC - hardware too advanced, or some such nonsense. Human Revolution is a prequel to the original Deus Ex, so I doubt I'm missing anything by skipping the sequel.

So, Human Revolution. A solid, lengthy, and well-crafted action/shooter with nominal RPG elements, that can accommodate a great variety of gaming styles - from full-on frontal assault, to creeping in the shadows and taking out enemies with a tranquilizer gun. If that. The "roleplaying" system of the game has changed in two major ways - the skill system got nuked, and the augmentation tree was made much more extensive and interesting to browse in search of the right augmentation to take - at least, in the first half of the game. Unlocking a new augmentation always feels like a substantial reward that substantially enhances your playthrough, without making it feel too easy, or broken. Human Revolution dealt away with much of the clutter and implausible interface elements that plagued Deus Ex - no more useless hazmat suits, no more electronic devices or nano-lockpicks that are thrown out after one use, no more medkits or energy cells. The only clutter-loot that remains are weapons and ammo packs, which are almost always useless to my pacifist-ghost stealth player. Would have been better for the game to take note of the weapons I hold in my inventory/use on a constant basis, and only generate ammo for these weapons.

As you know, Human Revolution is set in 2027, 25 years before the original Deus Ex, in the era of mechanical augmentations, such as prosthetic limbs, and other implants that require highly invasive surgery and/or amputation of biological organs. This creates a number of philosophical, cultural, societal and political problems that are more or less central to the game's plot and mood, and obviously borrows much from Ghost in the Shell anime. As far as this plot-point goes, I love it. I think Human Revolution handled this issue perfectly, certainly far better than the original Deus Ex, or even Ghost in the Shell itself (or at least, the first half of the first season - I got too bored to watch it to the end). In Deus Ex, the protagonists's augmentations were based on nanotechnology. In other words, magic. That's right. Magic. When the plot/gameplay needs JC Denton to have this or that super-power, he just has it. Why? Nanotech. Magic. What does this mean to the protagonist and the world around him? Well, he's got a few freaky blue veins, aside from that - nothing.

In Human Revolution, augmentations change everything. They change a person's life, the way he is perceived by other people, his place in society. Society itself has very mixed reactions to the idea of people voluntarily cutting off their limbs and replacing them with prosthetics - from fanatical cult following, to outrage and fear. When the public can't take the atmosphere of paranoia and disinformation they live in, they break into riots and start what comes close to a localized civil war, between the authorities, and the common folk who inhabit the city.

Another improvement on the original Deus Ex was the protagonist himself. Adam Jensen, in addition to having a much more badass appearance, is much more in sync with the story and is able to interact with the characters on a level that comes close to basic RPG roleplaying. JC Denton's personality was intentionally made as blank and generic as possible, so that the player could insert his own feelings and responses. In my opinion, this only served to make JC Denton kind of vapid and boring, and detached from the game. Adam Jensen actually had a life before starting the game, and parts of it will affect the story until the very end. Selecting the emotional content of his responses was a nice touch, and the persuasion system was certainly more complex and engaging than most RPGs I've played. Human Revolution have very cinematic dialogues, not to mention action sequences. Dialogues in this game look and sound exactly like two people talking to each other about something that matters to both of them, the dialogue is as natural and seamless as it can be, even when optional dialogues or persuasion are involved. They put quite a lot of work into writing this game, good effort.

What disappointed me the most in DEHR was, paradoxically enough, the story. It was well-structured and delivered with a lot of attention to detail, but unfortunately, the subject matter didn't feel original, or exciting enough. Most of the time it's just Adam Jensen going on a routine assignment that involved petty corporate politicking. First a warehouse is under attack, and he has to find and neutralize the terrorist leader. Then the terrorist hacker's cranium contains a datachip that points towards FEMA involvement. Then he goes to China. Then back to Detroit. Then, on a very thin thread, he decides to visit Eliza Casan (the first moment I saw her on a TV screen, I thought "She's going to become important later in the game, no way are they wasting this fancy character model on a generic news anchor" - I shit you not). There's just not enough going on to justify this running around crap. By comparison, Deus Ex had the protagonist reveal a number of fully-fledged conspiracies and secret societies, including the very organization he worked for, engineering and distributing a genocidal plague, creating omniscient Artificial Intelligences, merging machine and human intellect, creating genetic mutants, etc.

Additionally, in a lot of respects, Human Revolution felt less like a real prequel or third installment, and more like a remake of the original game. Like they have this new game-making technology, and they want to use it to recreate the first game, they way it was always meant to be. Even the two bosses - the chick and the dude - look like stand-ins for Herman Gunther and Anna Navarre. The problem with this, is that I hate prequels. They are designed by their very nature to be inferior by-products of the original game, everything that happens in this story is bound to reach the state in which the original storyline began. You know, that whatever happens in HR - Adam Jensen isn't going to solve the Illuminati conspiracy, provide any significant input into the mechs vs. purists dichotomy, keep FEMA and Joseph Manderley from screwing over Sarif Industries, or change the world for the better. The world is going to get much worse, so that JC Denton can begin his crusade against the MJ12, that much is certain.

Finally, I don't see the point in setting the game in the year 2027. Human Revolution was released in 2011, that means that the game's premise wants me to believe that in 16 years into the future there will be things like artificial intelligence, holographic projection indistinguishable from a real-life person, mechanical prosthetics that fully replace the functionality of biological limbs/organs, invisibility, telepathy, every lock in the world replaced with a digital interface, combat robots routinely used by the military, a motherfucking two-tiered city in China, where the upper city sits on artificial ground kilometers above a permanently-darkened lower city. Not to mention ludicrous political changes, such as all Islamic nations uniting into a caliphate and starting to play a major role in global politics, showing solidarity to one another despite the oil price crash ( ). 16 years into the future is not enough to warrant these massive changes. Ghost in the Shell suffered from this exact problem, which is part of the reason I stopped watching the anime. By comparison, Deus Ex was released in 2000, and was set in 2052. 52 years is not 16 years.

So, to sum it up. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a very solid and entertaining action/shooter with RPG elements, that takes much of what made the original great, and brings it to a new level. It's not a masterpiece and it's not going to have a cult following like the original Deus Ex was and have, but Eidos Montreal are certainly deserving of praise and critical acclaim for putting plenty of effort into writing this game's story, plot, characters, and dialogue. Hopefully, the fourth Deus Ex game will revolve around something a bit more exciting than protagonist going from place A to place B because of reasons.

solid 8.5/10

 

[ohWOW]

Thanks for spoiling me a Casan part, you bitch Learn to use fucking spoilers.

But yeah, this game looks and plays solid, so much better than any other AAA+++ GOTY novadays. Thank God that they cared for multiply ways to solve puzzles and missions, and acutally explore areas for secrets and stuff. Dialogue missions are pretty fun too. If not Jensen that sounds like he was a bottom character in some gay porn movie and shortcomings in a pacifist gameplay, this would be a pretty ass kicking game.

 

[Infinitron]

What disappointing me the most in DEHR was, paradoxically enough, the story. It was well-structured and delivered with a lot of attention to detail, but unfortunately, the subject matter didn't feel original, or exciting enough. Most of the time it's just Adam Jensen going on a routine assignment that involves petty corporate politicking. First a warehouse is under attack, and he has to find and neutralize the terrorist leader. Then the terrorist hacker's cranium contains a datachip that points towards FEMA involvement. Then he goes to China. Then back to Detroit. Then, on a very thin thread, he decides to visit Eliza Casan (the first moment I saw her on a TV screen, I thought "She's going to become important later in the game, no way are they wasting this fancy character model on a generic news anchor" - I shit you not). There's just not enough going on to justify this running around crap. By comparison, Deus Ex had the protagonist reveal a number of fully-fledged conspiracies and secret societies, including the very organization he worked for, engineering and distributing a genocidal plague, creating omniscient Artificial Intelligences, merging machine and human intellect, creating genetic mutants, etc.

It's a rare example of a console next-gen sequel being less EPIC than the original oldschool PC title.

 

[DraQ]

Deus Fags: Sexual Revolution

/

Would have been better for the game to take note of the weapons I hold in my inventory/use on a constant basis, and only generate ammo for these weapons.

Also die.

 

[sea]

Human Revolution dealt away with much of the clutter and implausible interface elements that plagued Deus Ex - no more useless hazmat suits, no more electronic devices or nano-lockpicks that are thrown out after one use, no more medkits or energy cells. The only clutter-loot that remains are weapons and ammo packs, which are almost always useless to my pacifist-ghost stealth player. Would have been better for the game to take note of the weapons I hold in my inventory/use on a constant basis, and only generate ammo for these weapons.

Clutter? While you could ignore all of the hazmat suits etc. in the original game, they were by no means useless. They existed to give you options in situations where you didn't invest in skills or augs - effectively trading inventory space (utility) for limited and inferior, but still useful, functionality. It was only "clutter" if you never used it and there was never any time you were forced to carry it around. By contrast the limited inventory in Human Revolution was really just a limit on how many guns you could carry and didn't extend into non-combat elements at all (except health kits). And you say that even less inventory management in the future would be a good thing?

In Deus Ex, the protagonists's augmentations were based on nanotechnology. In other words, magic. That's right. Magic. When the plot/gameplay needs JC Denton to have this or that super-power, he just has it. Why? Nanotech. Magic. What does this mean to the protagonist and the world around him? Well, he's got a few freaky blue veins, aside from that - nothing.

It wasn't any more magic than Human Revolution's augments are magical. How does one fire off 20 explosive ball bearings in 360 degrees around them without being injured by the explosion, for instance? How is optical cloaking or magic radar that reads exact positions of enemies not magic? Both games had ambitious and sci-fi-style tech, and both provided BS explanations that were about as equally plausible. Only real difference between the games is aesthetic presentation of the augmentations and the fact that augments were a bit more balanced and "down to earth" in Human Revolution (i.e. no "all incoming bullets and explosives evaporate" stuff).

In Human Revolution, augmentations change everything. They change a person's life, the way he is perceived by other people, his place in society. Society itself has very mixed reactions to the idea of people voluntarily cutting off their limbs and replacing them with prosthetics - from fanatical cult following, to outrage and fear. When the public can't take the atmosphere of paranoia and disinformation they live in, they break into riots and start what comes close to a localized civil war, between the authorities, and the common folk who inhabit the city.

All of these themes existed in the original Deus Ex; what's more, they were explored from a much more philosophical perspective rather than the more "man in the street" angle that Human Revolution takes. In Human Revolution some of the problems it presents border on straw men and other fallacies, such as "but playing god is bad!" Deus Ex did not fully cover the socio-political implications of augmentation on the minutia of everyday life, but it did time them into a much more coherent transhumanism narrative which discussed not just how human beings are affected by augmentation tech, but how these matters more broadly related to things like economics, government systems, artificial intelligence, all the way up to bringing up what role the concept of god has in such a society.

In other words, while Human Revolution takes a more detailed and personal look at things, the original game discussed the transhumanist angle in a much wider context and thus was able to cover far more ground and, in my opinion, also manage a more academic and intellectual take on the topic. That's not to say Human Revolution did a bad job, but I don't think it was nearly as insightful or "meaningful" as Deus Ex was.

Another improvement on the original Deus Ex was the protagonist himself. Adam Jensen, in addition to having a much more badass appearance, is much more in sync with the story and is able to interact with the characters on a level that comes close to basic RPG roleplaying. [...]

Partially agreed. I don't think JC Denton was completely flat and boring; the fact that he had a pretty strong education, military-grade training, unique powers, and an established history with other characters certainly showed through. I would say this comes down to the fact that Human Revolution's more personal angle gives Jensen more time to come across as a real person (complete with cheesy "your princess is in another castle!" story), while with JC Denton, his role in the story was centered mostly around the actions he takes within it. JC Denton also had a much more monotone voice actor which didn't help; Jensen did sound constipated all the time but he did have more emotional range. So in other words I'd say this is mostly an issue of "games have got much better at presenting human characters in the last decade" than anything else.

What disappointing me the most in DEHR was, paradoxically enough, the story. It was well-structured and delivered with a lot of attention to detail, but unfortunately, the subject matter didn't feel original, or exciting enough.

The problem was less the scope of the story and more all the dropped plot threads, completely under-developed characters (the mini-bosses/Tyrants), reliance on aforementioned damsel in distress plot hook (whether it ends up being a subversion or trope depends on how much credit you want to give the writer), that sort of thing. Plus it completely fell apart near the end with silly character motivations (Hugh Darrow wants to turn the whole world into zombies because he's upset his augs don't work on him), and the ending sequence itself was just weak, with no real sense of finality or resolution to the story other than Eliza's dialogue blurbs describing what buttons 1-3 do.

Deus Ex, meanwhile, had a larger and very tangled web that always kept you guessing about how different characters were involved... not to mention some surprisingly unpredictable plot twists and more interesting C&C. Everything made sense and all the loose ends were tied up by the end, and the conclusion was satisfying and gave a much better picture as to how your choices affected the world.

Finally, I don't see the point in setting the game in the year 2027. Human Revolution was released in 2011, that means that the game's premise wants me to believe that in 16 years into the future there will be things like [...]

I already responded to this elsewhere, but basically it boils down to the fact that Deus Ex's universe cannot be directly compared to our own world in every way. It does take some liberties with technology and I agree that Hengsha is a bit ridiculous, but other than that most of the "inconsistencies" can be attributed to improved technology and art style vs. the original game. As crazy as it sounds, the augmentation tech in Human Revolution is actually not too far off in real life and we could really start seeing stuff like fully-functional bionic arms and legs within the next 10-15 years, which are nearly as capable as the real things. Ultimately you have to give the story some creative license and breathing room; just like with Fallout we can accept the game is based on an alternate universe where the 1950s never ended, we should be able to accept that Deus Ex is based on a late-90s vision of the future and not our current one.

 

[tuluse]

JC Denton also had a much more monotone voice actor which didn't help; Jensen did sound constipated all the time but he did have more emotional range. So in other words I'd say this is mostly an issue of "games have got much better at presenting human characters in the last decade" than anything else.

I thought this was sort of a homage to the hard boiled detective trope. JC is supposed to be like Sam Spade or Case who hide what few emotions they feel nice and deep.

 

[Glyphwright]

Clutter? While you could ignore all of the hazmat suits etc. in the original game, they were by no means useless. They existed to give you options in situations where you didn't invest in skills or augs - effectively trading inventory space (utility) for limited and inferior, but still useful, functionality. It was only "clutter" if you never used it and there was never any time you were forced to carry it around. By contrast the limited inventory in Human Revolution was really just a limit on how many guns you could carry and didn't extend into non-combat elements at all (except health kits). And you say that even less inventory management in the future would be a good thing?

The hazmat suits were useless. The hazmat augmentation was also useless. There was a very limited number of places with toxic radiation to begin with, most of those places could be avoid by taking a less direct/hidden route, or simply by walking fast and not stopping, or disabling the radiation from a nearby console, and the very few unavoidable toxic environment areas came late in the game, by which time any normal player had maxed-out healing augs and the synthetic heart, which healed any injury in a matter of seconds, with minimal energy loss. Hazmats, combat suits, and stealth suits were 100% useless - there were always ways of accomplishing the same without annoying consumable timed items that took up inventory space.

The jab about "guns" in Human Revolutions is entirely misplaced, by the way. A stealth-oriented player like me needs a maximum of two guns - the stun gun, and the tranquilizer gun (if that, I played the majority of the game without any weapons, by using stealth and hacking to avoid detection of enemies at all times). A combat-oriented player ( perfectly valid gaming style, which just happens not to appeal to me) will want to use as many different guns as possible, and actually has a good reason to fill up his inventory with guns that stay useful throughout the game, rather than annoying consumables.

It wasn't any more magic than Human Revolution's augments are magical. How does one fire off 20 explosive ball bearings in 360 degrees around them without being injured by the explosion, for instance? How is optical cloaking or magic radar that reads exact positions of enemies not magic? Both games had ambitious and sci-fi-style tech, and both provided BS explanations that were about as equally plausible. Only real difference between the games is aesthetic presentation of the augmentations and the fact that augments were a bit more balanced and "down to earth" in Human Revolution (i.e. no super-powered healing or "all incoming bullets and explosives evaporate" stuff).

The tech in Deus Ex isn't magical because it produces implausible effects that cannot be explained by present-day science. They were magical because they had absolutely no trade-offs, and no impact on the story. Nano-augmentations exist outside the realm of human perception, they are invisible, unhearable, untouchable, things that give a person superpowers. Ada Jensen's augs are two hunks of metal extending from the place where his arms used to be, immediately noticeable to anyone near him, altering his self-image and his lifestyle, and are only possible because his employers butchered him on the surgery table, splitting open his skull, abdomen, and amputating his arms and legs before he could ever consent to it. It speaks volumes that Adam Jensen has a broken mirror in his bathroom. He is, essentially, a life-long cripple, who was kept alive just so he could keep being useful to his employers. Just like virtually every other mechanically-augmented soldier in the game.

This is an aspect of characterization that is entirely absent from Deus Ex. JC Denton never reacts to his nano-augmentation, other than "woops, I guess I have superpowers now". He never reacts to his kill-switch, other than "woops, I guess they're going to extremely slowly kill me now, I have fifteen million hours to save myself". He never even reacts to the news of him being genetically engineered in a secret lab, so he could slaughter dissidents. These things just aren't in the game. You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks, but they aren't in the game.
The most we have in Deus Ex is Gunther Herman comically whining about becoming obsolete in a short while. And Anna Navarre's untoward attitude towards the player. That's too little.

All of these themes existed in the original Deus Ex; what's more, they were explored from a much more philosophical perspective rather than the more "man in the street" angle that Human Revolution takes. In Human Revolution some of the problems it presents border on straw men and other fallacies, such as "but playing god is bad!" Deus Ex did not fully cover the socio-political implications of augmentation in an overt and explicit manner, but it did time them into a much more coherent transhumanism narrative which discussed not just how human beings are affected by augmentation tech, but how these matters more broadly related to things like economics, government systems, artificial intelligence, all the way up to bringing up what role the concept of god has in such a society.

Except that it didn't do any of that, of course.

Partially agreed. I don't think JC Denton was completely flat and boring; the fact that he had a pretty strong education, military-grade training, unique powers, and an established history with other characters certainly showed through. I would say this comes down more to the fact that Human Revolution's more personal angle gives Jensen more time to come across as a real person (complete with cheesy "your princess is in another castle!" story), while with JC Denton, his role in the story is centered mostly around the actions he takes within it. JC Denton also had a much more monotone voice actor which didn't help; Jensen did sound constipated all the time but he did have more emotional range.

He had a few moments of witty banter with that doctor with a horrible accent, yes. And he completely failed to produce any semblance of emotion in regards to the news of his brother being branded a traitor and sentenced to a slow death. Aside from that, JC Denton had no established history with any of the characters we see in the story. He hadn't met any of them prior to the game's start. As for his interactions during the game... let's just say that a deadpan monotone isn't exactly the best way of establishing connections between people. DEHR establishes that Adam Jensen and Pritchard have a measure of personal distaste for one another, which mostly originates with Pritchett's original mistrust of Adam Jensen's origins and his capabilities as the chief of security and a field operator (Pritchard takes pride in his job, and can be overprotective and paranoid when it comes to network security), as well as their diametrically opposing personalities and lines of work (Pritchard is snide, sarcastic and stays in the comfort of his office, Jensen is bold, forward, impatient and puts himself in the midst of danger) but both are ultimately willing to cooperate for the sake of a common goal, and grudgingly gain a measure of respect for one another. What was JC Denton's opinion of Alex Jacobson, for instance? Or vice versa? No, don't guess or start writing fan fiction. Explain what the game tells you JC Denton and ALex Jacobson thought of one another.

I already responded to this elsewhere, but basically it boils down to the fact that Deus Ex's universe cannot be directly compared to our own world in every way. It does take some liberties with technology and I agree that Hengsha is a bit ridiculous, but other than that most of the "inconsistencies" can be attributed to improved technology and art style vs. the original game. As crazy as it sounds, the augmentation tech in Human Revolution is actually not too far off in real life and we could really start seeing stuff like fully-functional bionic arms and legs within the next 10-15 years, which are nearly as capable as the real things. Ultimately you have to give the story some creative license and breathing room; just like with Fallout we can accept the game is based on an alternate universe where the 1950s never ended, we should be able to accept that Deus Ex is based on a late-90s vision of the future and not our current one.

Meh. I don't buy this amount of changes in 16 years. If they wanted to set this in an alternate dimension, they should have set this in year 2011, of an alternate dimension where mega-advanced tech exists. They set this in the future of our world, and saying that it cannot be directly compared to our world in every way is tantamount to saying that the world of Deus Ex is fictional. We know. It still needs to have a plausible premise. This is a minor point anyway, I'm just point out that DEHR could have benefited from being designed as a sequel, rather than prequel.

Of course, this isn't anywhere near as ridiculous as Ghost in the Shell expecting that in 20 years time every single person in Japan aside from traditionalist fanatics and hobos, would undergo an invasive surgery where the entire brain is taken out of the skull, equipped with electronic chips, put into a titanium protective shell which completely covers it, and then put back into the body. And that there would exist fully artificial bodies, with faces that have the appearance and mimics indistinguishable from a real face. And that a person's identity and soul is the quintessential sum of all the biological organs' outputs, which must be artificially simulated in a prosthetic body. Yeah, a soul is a digital simulation of material bodyparts. For fucks sake, Ghost in the Shell. For fucks sake.

 

[Infinitron]

Except that it didn't do any of that, of course.

Watch from 9:02

 

[AngryKobold]

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a very solid and entertaining action/shooter with RPG elements, that takes much of what made the original great, and brings it to a new level.

Brings it, indeed. Down, to a new level of mediocrity.

Eidos Montreal are certainly deserving of praise and critical acclaim for putting plenty of effort into writing this game's story, plot, characters, and dialogue.

Mediocrity is never worthy of any praise. Where are your standards.

solid 8.5/10

Solid crap. Again: where are your fucking standards.

Having a limited lifespan and better things to do, I omitted to read the rest. Something tells me it's just a waste of space on my screen.

 

[Glyphwright]

The one amazing thing that Deus Ex had, that Human Revolution didn't have, was the music. Seriously, HR has no musical score. Well, technically there are tracks, but they are so charactereless and low-key, they might as well be considered ambient noise. Why release a cyber-punk action/shooter heavy on setting and characterization, and not compose a beautiful synth score? Why, Eidos? Why?

Watch from 9:02

Derpiest thing ever. A game introduces more than one motive, and had different people provide different perspectives and different opinions on the same issue? And that's bad why exactly? Augmentation is treated with suspicion and disapproval for a good reason in this game. It is morally ambiguous to allow people to seek highly invasive surgery that often ends in amputation, for the sake of having more power/physical strength than other people. And it creates an economical and societal decline due to unavoidable neuropozine consumption and addiction, thus creating a ubiquitous population of super-powered drug addicts, that are constantly in need of money to purchase more neuropozine, because without this fictional substance, their body will reject the augmentations, causing them to die horribly. This is what the game tells me about the cons of augmentation. The pros mainly concern people who have sustained massive injuries, and are in danger of dying or ending disabled/crippled for the rest of their lives, gaining a chance to live normal lives thanks to augmentation. As well as the overall trans-humanist motive of humanity gradually merging with technology in order to better itself physically and intellectually. This creates a conflict between those who oppose the idea of humans transforming into cyborgs and demanding this technology be banned, and those who support the trans-humanist ideal and assert their right to modify their bodies to whichever degree they choose. That's what the game tells me about augmentation in this game, it includes moral, social, and economic concerns, just like many real-life problems. If the author of the video slept through 3/4 of the game, it's his problem.

 

[Infinitron]

The one amazing thing that Deus Ex had, that Human Revolution didn't have, was the music. Seriously, HR has no musical score. Well, technically there are tracks, but they are so charactereless and low-key, they might as well be considered ambient noise. Why release a cyber-punk action/shooter heavy on setting and characterization, and not compose a beautiful synth score? Why, Eidos? Why?

What the fuck are you talking about, DX:HR had excellent music. Very much comparable to the more low-key tracks in the original game, such as the Hell's Kitchen theme.

Derpiest thing ever. A game introduces more than one motive, and had different people provide different perspectives and different opinions on the same issue? And that's bad why exactly? Augmentation is treated with suspicion and disapproval for a good reason in this game. It is morally ambiguous to allow people to seek highly invasive surgery that often ends in amputation, for the sake of having more power/physical strength than other people. And it creates an economical and societal decline due to unavoidable neuropozine consumption and addiction, thus creating a ubiquitous population of super-powered drug addicts, that are constantly in need of money to purchase more neuropozine, because without this fictional substance, their body will reject the augmentations, causing them to die horribly. This is what the game tells me about the cons of augmentation. The pros mainly concern people who have sustained massive injuries, and are in danger of dying or ending disabled/crippled for the rest of their lives, gaining a chance to live normal lives thanks to augmentation. As well as the overall trans-humanist motive of humanity gradually merging with technology in order to better itself physically and intellectually. This creates a conflict between those who oppose the idea of humans transforming into cyborgs and demanding this technology be banned, and those who support the trans-humanist ideal and assert their right to modify their bodies to whichever degree they choose. That's what the game tells me about augmentation in this game, it includes moral, social, and economic concerns, just like many real-life problems. If the author of the video slept through 3/4 of the game, it's his problem.

He didn't ignore all that stuff. He just doesn't think it's very interesting compared to the more high level discussion of transhumanism and the role of government seen in the original game.

 

[Glyphwright]

high level discussion of transhumanism seen in the original game

I may have totally forgotten Deus Ex, but what the fuck are you talking about? What discussion of transhumanism in Deus Ex? Please point out. I remember plenty of government-level conspiracies, and a few discussions on the United Nations, Communist China, corporate USA, FEMA, etc. but transhumanism? Really? Bob Page, Walton Simons, and the two Dentons are the first four people in the whole world who have nano-technological super-powers. In time, nano-augs will entirely replace mech-augs, thus rendering people like Gunther Hermann and Anna Navarre obsolete and worthless. That's about it.

Oh, and there was the bit with Bob Page/JC Denton merging with Helios and taking over the world.... well, that had little to do with augmentation, and more to do with the role of god in human society, the difference between systems of government and their flaws, and humanity's place in the universe.


P.S. I've listened to another arbitrary part of the bearded nerd's video, where he rants about boss fights... and I've concluded that he doesn't know how to use the stun gun, or the typhoon augmentation. These two things work just as well on bosses, as they do on regular opponents, using them allows you to take the boss down very easily. And there are very few boss fights in this long-ass game to begin with, three if I'm not mistaken. Ranting for the sake of ranting? Seems like it.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, and there was the bit with Bob Page/JC Denton merging with Helios and taking over the world.... well, that had little to do with augmentation, and more to do with the role of god in human society, the difference between systems of government and their flaws, and humanity's place in the universe.

...other than the fact that they become augmented transhumans to do it!

"Transhumanism" doesn't imply an entire society becoming transhuman (although that's actually what happens in the JC Denton ending of DX:IW)

 

[deuxhero]

In Deus Ex, the protagonists's augmentations were based on nanotechnology. In other words, magic. That's right. Magic. When the plot/gameplay needs JC Denton to have this or that super-power, he just has it. Why? Nanotech. Magic. What does this mean to the protagonist and the world around him? Well, he's got a few freaky blue veins, aside from that - nothing.

Because concelability was a major part of the design goals for nanotech agents and why it is such a big step over mechs (indeed, the Dentons are prototypes effectively and is actually less functional than top mech augs like Gunther and Anna, most noticeably in the durability part, but are less clumbersome and visible as a result, plus require no real maintenance while mechs needed it regularly).

Human Revolution worked on technobabble that made no sense (see the typhon explanation at the start). All the actual technology in DX had some real basis (The "plasma" rifle for instance is just a catapult for molton plastic, the aggressive defense system merely screws with detonation systems and makes them activate prematurely (I'll assume the fact that it works through walls is an engine issue), even the most complex is taking control of JC's legs and making him move in the most effective paterns or lubbing his legs.

 

[Infinitron]

Human Revolution worked on technobabble that made no sense (see the typhon explanation at the start). All the actual technology in DX had some real basis (The "plasma" rifle for instance is just a catapult for molton plastic, the aggressive defense system merely screws with detonation systems and makes them activate prematurely (I'll assume the fact that it works through walls is an engine issue), even the most complex is taking control of JC's legs and making him move in the most effective paterns or lubbing his legs.

Actually, I suggest you replay the game and read again. The science in DX:HR is clearly far more researched than the original DX. They have academic articles scattered around in the world for you to read, FFS.

DX tech is based on sci-fi tropes, while DX:HR tech is based on extrapolations of current technology.

 

[Glyphwright]

Deus Ex doesn't explore the issue of transhumanism and the effect of augmentations on the society and individuals. It just gives you augmented people, and proceeds to dabble in government conspiracies. Denton has no reaction to his nano-augs, because they present no adverse effects and no trade-offs, aside from a plot device that kills him over the course of three centuries if he disobeys his superiors. Gunther/Anna have no reaction to their mech-augs, aside from the fear of becoming obsolete due to Denton's nano-augs eventually reaching mass production level. It's all tangential to the game's storyline. Get it through your skull, DEHR did a better job in this particular field than DE.

 

[Glyphwright]

Human Revolution worked on technobabble that made no sense (see the typhon explanation at the start).

As did Deus Ex. No, explain to make how nanotechnology can create a spy=drone that assembles out of nothing, flies around and dissapears when you need it to. Oh, that's right. Nanotech. Magic.

 

[Infinitron]

Deus Ex doesn't explore the issue of transhumanism and the effect of augmentations on the society and individuals. It just gives you augmented people, and proceeds to dabble in government conspiracies. Denton has no reaction to his nano-augs, because they present no adverse effects and no trade-offs, aside from a plot device that kills him over the course of three centuries if he disobeys his superiors. Gunther/Anna have no reaction to their mech-augs, aside from the fear of becoming obsolete due to Denton's nano-augs eventually reaching mass production level. It's all tangential to the game's storyline. Get it through your skull, DEHR did a better job in this particular field than DE.

Tautological statement is tautological. What "particular field" are you talking about?

Again, discussion of transhumanism and augmentation != grousing about the immediate effects of technology on mere humans and human societies. There's also a higher-level discussion here, one that DX:HR does not broach.

 

[Glyphwright]

Again, discussion of transhumanism and augmentation != grousing about the effects of technology on mere humans and human societies

Oh, yes, why stoop so low as too discuss mere humans and lowly human societies. We have pure genius to attend to.

There's also a higher-level discussion here, one that DX:HR does not broach.

Genius!

 

[deuxhero]

Human Revolution worked on technobabble that made no sense (see the typhon explanation at the start).

As did Deus Ex. No, explain to make how nanotechnology can create a spy=drone that assembles out of nothing, flies around and dissapears when you need it to. Oh, that's right. Nanotech. Magic.

Spy-drone is really the only stupid one though.

 

[Glyphwright]

Sure, cloak and radar transparency both made perfect sense. Cause, you know, invisibility totally doesn't work on cameras, you need a separate "radar transparency" for them. Even though there are no radars in the game. Not to mention the very idea of total invisibility. Energy shield magically absorbing fire and electricity too. Synthetic heart was pretty derpy too.

 

[Gerrard]

What the fuck are you talking about, DX:HR had excellent music. Very much comparable to the more low-key tracks in the original game, such as the Hell's Kitchen theme.

I finished it 3 times and still can't remember if there's music in the game besides the hacking minigame. Don't compare this ambient shit with the original.

 

[Infinitron]

What the fuck are you talking about, DX:HR had excellent music. Very much comparable to the more low-key tracks in the original game, such as the Hell's Kitchen theme.

I finished it 3 times and still can't remember if there's music in the game besides the hacking minigame. Don't compare this ambient shit with the original.

"Ambient shit"? Mark Morgan wept.

 

[sea]

The hazmat suits were useless. The hazmat augmentation was also useless. There was a very limited number of places with toxic radiation to begin with, most of those places could be avoid by taking a less direct/hidden route, or simply by walking fast and not stopping, or disabling the radiation from a nearby console, and the very few unavoidable toxic environment areas came late in the game, by which time any normal player had maxed-out healing augs and the synthetic heart, which healed any injury in a matter of seconds, with minimal energy loss. Hazmats, combat suits, and stealth suits were 100% useless - there were always ways of accomplishing the same without annoying consumable timed items that took up inventory space.

No, they weren't useless. Saying that hazmat suits and cloaking devices and night vision goggles are useless is like saying that the pistol is useless because you can use stealth, or that the rebreather is useless because you can get the aqualung augmentation. They are consumable inventory items that give you limited functionality, which is less efficient than other options. It's your fault if you don't take advantage of them. By the same pointlessly reductive logic, any game with any gameplay choices in it renders those choices redundant and a waste of time because there is a single more optimal solution, or simply because you like one over the other.

The jab about "guns" in Human Revolutions is entirely misplaced, by the way. A stealth-oriented player like me needs a maximum of two guns - the stun gun, and the tranquilizer gun (if that, I played the majority of the game without any weapons, by using stealth and hacking to avoid detection of enemies at all times). A combat-oriented player ( perfectly valid gaming style, which just happens not to appeal to me) will want to use as many different guns as possible, and actually has a good reason to fill up his inventory with guns that stay useful throughout the game, rather than annoying consumables.

You're kind of right, actually. Inventory management is a bigger concern for shooty-shoot players, as they rely on guns, ammo, mods and health kits, all which take inventory space. By contrast, stealthy players rely more on Praxis kits and augmentation upgrades.'

But I think you're missing the point. So if you play as a combat character and don't want to use those consumables... don't use them? You don't have to if you don't want to. Yet, if you are playing a stealthy or otherwise non-lethal character (or maybe one that entirely avoids any confrontations) then you should get some value out of the options that consumable items provides. Since Human Revolution really has no non-combat consumables, stealthy play ends up having less resource management and ultimately means you are going to do the same tactic throughout most of the game - sneak using cover, takedowns on enemies, stun gun, rinse and repeat. At least having consumables available makes you consider alternate routes and solutions - which in the original Deus Ex is necessitated by the late-game levels. In Human Revolution most stealth routes are limited only by augmentations and if you don't have the right aug, you can't take that route, period.

In other words, resource management is shifted almost entirely to character building and therefore you have less depth and fewer interesting choices to make on a minute-by-minute basis. The most difficulty I had with stealth in Human Revolution was in trying to hack every single computer terminal without getting spotted.

The tech in Deus Ex isn't magical because it produces implausible effects that cannot be explained by present-day science. They were magical because they had absolutely no trade-offs, and no impact on the story[...]

Maybe...

Because..

That...

Was..

The fucking point?

You do remember Gunther and Anna and the other mechs in the first game, right? About how they were upset at being second class citizens next to JC, worried about becoming obsolete and retired in the face of new technology? It's outright stated that society recognizes their "great sacrifice" for their country in getting so mech'd out. JC Denton doesn't have to deal with these horrible life-altering things because... wait for it... they didn't happen to him! They happened to other people and you can literally see how they dealt with it differently on a personal level - whether that's Gunther's obsession with being more efficient at killing, Anna's guardedness and unwillingness to accept JC as an equal, or even that bartender in New York who got pissed off if you mentioned she was augmented.

I just don't get this. The impact of old mechanical augmentation is clearly explored and displayed in the original game - not as extensively, mind you, and from a different perspective - and this is purposely put in direct contrast with JC and other nano-augs. Did you seriously not notice the parallels in comparing the pursuit and mastery of technology to the concept of god, the idea of JC Denton as an allegorical Jesus Christ, even while the game outright criticizes and dismantles religion through characters like Morpheus and two out of three of the game's endings?

He never reacts to his kill-switch, other than "woops, I guess they're going to extremely slowly kill me now, I have fifteen million hours to save myself". He never even reacts to the news of him being genetically engineered in a secret lab, so he could slaughter dissidents. These things just aren't in the game. You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks, but they aren't in the game.

Maybe because the developers expected players to be affected by this information themselves without needing to resort to cutscenes featuring melodramatic piano scores, tears, shattered glass, etc.? And perhaps because in a game about choice, they wanted to let people make up their own minds about what they felt about it?

He had a few moments of witty banter with that doctor with a horrible accent, yes. And he completely failed to produce any semblance of emotion in regards to the news of his brother being branded a traitor and sentenced to a slow death.

I would argue that is more flat voice acting than anything else, and limitations in presentation of the characters (simple stilted dialogue sequences with A and B cameras, no animation). There actually are dialogue lines JC has about these things, but they fit with his cynical and sardonic attitude, which is clearly on display from the beginning of the fucking game. What do you expect, JC Denton to fall to his knees and scream at the sky: "PPPAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEE!"?

Aside from that, JC Denton had no established history with any of the characters we see in the story.

Maybe because the developers intentionally did that to allow players to respond to the situations in the game instead of having emotions clumsily forced upon them by a script they may not even agree with?

Meh. I don't buy this amount of changes in 16 years. If they wanted to set this in an alternate dimension, they should have set this in year 2011, of an alternate dimension where mega-advanced tech exists.

Oh, so you can make an exception for some games, but not this one, even though the series took place in 2050 and beyond and features what you described as "magic technology." Okay.

 

[deuxhero]

Sure, cloak and radar transparency both made perfect sense. Cause, you know, invisibility totally doesn't work on cameras, you need a separate "radar transparency" for them. Even though there are no radars in the game. Not to mention the very idea of total invisibility. Energy shield magically absorbing fire and electricity too. Synthetic heart was pretty derpy too.

Synthetic heart is really just sending materials where they are needed in advance. Optical camo already exists as proof of concept in the real world, and the cameras/bots use other sensors instead of video (with the video existing only for diagnostics) that aren't blocked by that