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The Elder Scrolls Online - gone B2P

thesheeep

Arcane
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Fuck you, retard. Level scaling in an MMO is fucking garbage you fucking fuck.
It's garbage everywhere. There's no reason to ever use it.

You're right, I just love explaining to friends that they'll have to spend 100 hours leveling up in an MMO to even play with me and have 90% of the areas in the game die after the first month because everyone's holed up in the three "end game viable areas" of the game.
It is called progression, a sense of achievement.
Something ESO doesn't have.

And if you want to play something quick with your friends, there are endless amounts of games for that. No need to make MMORPGs even more retarded because nowadays every blockhead sucks at time management and cannot focus on something for longer than an hour.

Besides, not a single moment in history have MMOs been about "playing with friends", that's what co-op games are for.
 
Last edited:

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Fuck you, retard. Level scaling in an MMO is fucking garbage you fucking fuck.
It's garbage everywhere. There's no reason to ever use it.

You're right, I just love explaining to friends that they'll have to spend 100 hours leveling up in an MMO to even play with me and have 90% of the areas in the game die after the first month because everyone's holed up in the three "end game viable areas" of the game.
It is called progression, a sense of achievement.
Something ESO doesn't have.

And if you want to play something quick with your friends, there are endless amounts of games for that. No need to make MMORPGs even more retarded because nowadays every blockhead sucks at time management and cannot focus on something for longer than an hour.

Besides, not a single moment in history have MMOs been about "playing with friends", that's what co-op games are for.
FF11 before the third expack

EQ around 1999-2002

EVE Online

Ultima Online

Vanilla WoW

Star Wars Galaxies

Oh what's that? I hear some unconsciously ask... Just the fact that 90% of MMO's that are popular and remembered have an end game that can't be played entirely solo, or otherwise rely on finding or playing with friends?

Please shut the fuck up with your lack of knowledge on core MMO game design. The reason WoW is dying, is because they removed the NEED to find friends. Thus player retention went down.

If you're going to criticize any MMO, don't criticize it for easing up on allowing players to play together. Criticize it on actual fundamental things they get wrong.

Here's an easy one. ESO's content locks on core Elder Scrolls quest lines is atrocious, and borders on Runescape levels of "Why isn't this just free?" What's that Timmy, you want to be a thieves guild member or even just go treasure hunting, that'll 20 dollars please. What about The Dark Brotherhood, are you an edgelord Timmy do you want to be a cool ninjarai assassman, that'll be 15 dollars. Consistently and clearly they have excluded folks from what should be core content leaving a rather anemic shell of a game if you just buy the game itself. Unless you of course shell out 15 dollars a month ad infinitum.

Granted it's Plus membership is probably the best in the business. Both in terms of only offering convenience features and in terms of offering a fair amount of said features for their customers. I get selling content but at this point with 2 expacks out, you're looking at about 150 dollars just to get all the content in the game if you don't buy things on sale.
 

Ranarama

Learned
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
604
It is called progression, a sense of achievement.

For what, grinding? What achievement is that? That you've wasted X hours?

For the record, I'm against level-scaling too (obviously), but for MMOs, they should think about what they want to provide - is the level grind actually part of their core gameplay anymore?

And MMOs recognise this, which is why many let you skip initial gameplay and get straight to max or almost max level. But really they should stop being retarded and admit that they should give up on the whole mechanic, and admit their game loop relies on item drops.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
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Oh what's that? I hear some unconsciously ask... Just the fact that 90% of MMO's that are popular and remembered have an end game that can't be played entirely solo, or otherwise rely on finding or playing with friends?

Please shut the fuck up with your lack of knowledge on core MMO game design. The reason WoW is dying, is because they removed the NEED to find friends. Thus player retention went down.
Some random people to play with != friends. I mean, maybe that is already enough for your definition of a friend, but mine differs. A lot.

All the games you listed require(d) you to know people who - just as you - played the games for dozens of hours, advance in the game, get better at it and go through the progression system - with or without much grind, but usually with.
Those people were not your friends, usually, but some other random weirdos from the net.
These games, just as I said, were never about playing together with your actual friends whenever you felt like it. Sure, maybe for some people there were actual friends who got just as hooked as them and so they could do it - but the majority? Probably not.

In ESO you can just drop in and go pretty much everywhere you like from the get-go and do just fine (which is exactly what I did after doing the starter area of my char and joined a friend of mine at some "end"-game event) - it breaks every sense of achievement and progress. And yes, in an MMO that achievement is having spent the time. What else would it be? Those games are all easy as fuck, the only "difficulty" is actually spending the time and maybe not pulling all mobs at once.

ESO is a co-op game masquerading as an MMO.
If nowadays that really is what people want, fine, but don't claim it is anything it just isn't.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Oh what's that? I hear some unconsciously ask... Just the fact that 90% of MMO's that are popular and remembered have an end game that can't be played entirely solo, or otherwise rely on finding or playing with friends?

Please shut the fuck up with your lack of knowledge on core MMO game design. The reason WoW is dying, is because they removed the NEED to find friends. Thus player retention went down.
Some random people to play with != friends. I mean, maybe that is already enough for your definition of a friend, but mine differs. A lot.

All the games you listed require(d) you to know people who - just as you - played the games for dozens of hours, advance in the game, get better at it and go through the progression system - with or without much grind, but usually with.
Those people were not your friends, usually, but some other random weirdos from the net.
These games, just as I said, were never about playing together with your actual friends whenever you felt like it. Sure, maybe for some people there were actual friends who got just as hooked as them and so they could do it - but the majority? Probably not.

In ESO you can just drop in and go pretty much everywhere you like from the get-go and do just fine (which is exactly what I did after doing the starter area of my char and joined a friend of mine at some "end"-game event) - it breaks every sense of achievement and progress. And yes, in an MMO that achievement is having spent the time. What else would it be? Those games are all easy as fuck, the only "difficulty" is actually spending the time and maybe not pulling all mobs at once.

ESO is a co-op game masquerading as an MMO.
If nowadays that really is what people want, fine, but don't claim it is anything it just isn't.
If you want to get technical the only requirement of an MMO is that it has a world in which you can encounter other people, a massive amount of them even. And has game elements that rely on that mass of people. For instance, hypothetically, VRChat is not an MMO. It meets two of those requirements. But lacks a third.

In all respects ESO is an MMO. It has a world in which you constantly encounter other players. It has those players in large numbers. And finally it has systems such as it's trading and AH(I use this term loosely) system, that rely on you coordinating and exploring the world to make contact with that mass of people.

You could have an MMO where you start at max level, and it would still be an MMO. Because the MMO portion of the genre is just a qualifier.

What you are trying to argue is not that it isn't an MMO, but that it's a bad one.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Well, I can definitely agree that ESO is pretty bad. :lol:
I agree, combat is floaty as all get out. Social features, pretty trash, but it is definitely an MMO. It does things, lemme rephrase that it does a lot of things bad. It does some things well. But it is most definitely an MMORPG.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/summerfall

So ESO's had this thing going on where players unlock an achievement, and rewards are unlocked as a higher percentage of the goal is reached. The goal being a number that hasn't been revealed to the public. A number that was totally something they set beforehand because it's not like this is a marketing stunt or something.

:hmmm:

At 33% the reward is a pet, at 66% a mount, and at 100% a fucking in-game manor, the "Grand Psijic Villa".

87022580726315bfd8c5881e2dbf0033.png


Anyway this super secret number has been reached. You don't have to have the achievement yourself to get this stuff, just have TESO and the Summerset expansion and log in at least once by October 7 to get your free pet, mount and house. And don't forget to buy the Grand Psijic Villa Furniture Set from the cash shop you stupid goy!
 

Hobo Elf

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Platypus Planet
Yeah boi my guild is gonna get the Villa.

As for the level scaling argument, I'm always against level scaling in SP games, but in the case of ESO I really don't mind. I enjoy how the game lets you freely go about the content at whichever order you wish to and it allows me to party up with my friends who have been playing the game far longer than I have and still feel like I'm able to contribute something to the party. Furthermore the scaling doesn't seem to invalidate character progression either in this game. Yes, the base stats of enemies keep getting scaled up with you, but you're still inching further and further from the curve as you're unlocking new skills / morphs and passives that enhance your combat capabilities.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
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Yeah it's really a game about exploration more than anything else, you can just relax and go wherever you want without worrying about outleveling stuff. It's not your typical follow a path to endgame then quit because there's nothing fun to do MMO, and That's A Good Thing.
 

ADL

Prophet
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Oct 23, 2017
Messages
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Nantucket
The Murkmire DLC will be a free login reward to anyone who logs in 24 days in November.
dem dolla bills unnecessary

Also the more social I become with the TESO community, the more I realize this shitpost is actually correct
WFN6nuz.jpg
 

Thane Solus

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Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
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X-COM Base
what some of the clueless players here, that never ever played a proper mmo (eg from Ultima Online, AC to EVE 2018 with all their flaws), dont understand or "forget to mention", is that even resources now scale with you which is hilarious.

I got back in the game some years back, since i found it decent, and made a new char, and was looking for t2 or t3 resources for mining. Usually they were on some kind of progression, second maps and so on. Went from t2 to t3 maps, found only t1, then it came to me, THEY EVEN SCALE THE RESOURCES, BAHAHAHAAHA! You deserve what are you getting.

"Ah it ok guys, i am playing with "my friends" fucking around, having no idea what i am doing, its fun"

Mobile designers and mobile gamers.
 

Dawkinsfan69

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
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inside ur mom ᕦ( ▀̿ Ĺ̯ ▀̿ )ᕤ
elder scrolls games aren't designed to give you a sense of achievement you retards

go play some other game if that's what you want. IDK what's up with ppl on this site coming to games and expecting shit that the games were never designed to offer

no wonder you're all cynical and pissed all the time your brains literally are broke
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The Murkmire DLC will be a free login reward to anyone who logs in 24 days in November.
dem dolla bills unnecessary

Also the more social I become with the TESO community, the more I realize this shitpost is actually correct
WFN6nuz.jpg
most people who haven't played ESO are unaware just how much lore is in it. It has become the de facto source for most lore things now, especially pretty much everything that's obscure in the lore.
The game has more lore than every other prior entry in the series combined. Not hyperbole, here's a chart from 2015 before either expansion pack:
u2MGtYp.jpg
 

Dawkinsfan69

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
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inside ur mom ᕦ( ▀̿ Ĺ̯ ▀̿ )ᕤ
Man

This game is good in so many ways. The combat is fun, better than any MMO and better than any elder scrolls game. The graphics are great, the story is good, the world is varied and interesting, character building is fun, unlocking skill trees is awesome, dungeons are well made.

But one thing ruins the entire game making it unplayable

Every fucking time I need to face a boss for the end of a questline, a group of level 800 dickheads jump in and and trivialize the fight, killing it in moments. Every fucking time I enter a delve (public dungeon), there's a group of lvl 1123 assholes rampaging through and killing everything.

These things should be solo. All of the main questlines in the game are totally trivialized by allowing people to jump into my fights. Questline battles are ALL designed for one person to solo, they're not meant to be taken on by 5 people with meta min/max builds.

Why the fuck would they let the climax of all of their questlines be totally trivialized by this garbage? Literally if they would fix this one thing the game would be 10/10 but nooo guys it's an MMO and that means 50000 people need to gang rape enemies that are meant to be taken on by 1 person.
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
ESO would be a decent action rpg if it was fully solo.
 

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