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The Fall of Peter Molyneux

:Flash:

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The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
Yeah, the same old bullshit as we heared with Tim Schafer. Yeah, those 2 guys had nothing to do with their past great games, it was the work of other people at their team. Roofles, those games wouldn't be great without Molyneux or Schafer.
 

NotAGolfer

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:Flash:

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The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
Yeah, the same old bullshit as we heared with Tim Schafer. Yeah, those 2 guys had nothing to do with their past great games, it was the work of other people at their team. Roofles, those games wouldn't be great without Molyneux or Schafer.
I didn't say he had nothing to do with those games, I just said it's hard to know who did what. It's pretty clear the earlier ones (Populous, etc.) are genuinely his. Later on, it isn't that clear, but Molyneux always took all the credit because he was the guy that talked to the press.
In the case of Fable it is well documented in gaming magazines at the time, from the first Previews, then Fable devs being a Lionhead affiliate, then Fable developers join Lionhead, then Molyneux becomes lead on Fable.
 

NotAGolfer

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Yeah, but Fable isn't exactly a great game anyway so who cares. If he wasn't overly involved in the design of this game this might even be considered a redeeming argument that would turn much of the butthurt about broken promises moot. Sure he bullshitted ... or better bullshat? ... people, but since it never was his job to fulfill these promises you can just as well write it off as team-internal miscommunication. :M
 
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ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Bah, since when has John "TWD is an arpeegee" Walker ever made any meaningful contribution to gaming news?

Like seriously, has he ever?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Bah, since when has John "TWD is an arpeegee" Walker ever made any meaningful contribution to gaming news?

Like seriously, has he ever?

Actually, yes. He did some good work during the Lauren Wainwright/DoritoGate scandal back in 2012.
 

Lyric Suite

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The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
Yeah, the same old bullshit as we heared with Tim Schafer. Yeah, those 2 guys had nothing to do with their past great games, it was the work of other people at their team. Roofles, those games wouldn't be great without Molyneux or Schafer.

I don't see how you can dismiss the argument like that. I mean its not like making a game is like making a movie, where the director has complete control over everything. Games are mostly a team effort, it is entirely possible for a motivated hack job to take credit for the work of others.
 

Metro

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I think this thread confirms one thing: Codexers literarily give more of a fuck about sticking it to the SJWs than hating shitty video games and people scamming them of their money.

"HURR, MOLYNEUX DID SOME BAD THINGS BUT JOHN WALKER WAS A MEANIE TO HIM"


Fuck you and your bullshit. Peter Molyneux took over half a million pounds and just took a shit on them, doing whatever the fuck he wanted and not following one simple promise. Even some shmuck like Tim Schafer (and anyone who've read the DF threads knows I hate him as much as the next guy) was never this big of an asshole. For all that counts, at least you can't buy ingame items (for now) with real life money in Spacebase DF9 or whatever. At least he didn't promise some poor sod some money and fame and gave him the finger. And whatever he did wrong, we criticized him for it just as much as we do this asshole.


I don't give one tiny amount of fuck of who John Walker is and what did he do with his life. He means literal zero to anyone actually giving a fuck about video games in this day and age. He didn't just scam people of hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars by abusing their nostalgia and memories of good video games. He's as relevant to the general context as Infinitron or me or anyone on this forum are.

Peter Molyneux means/meant much more, due to his past history of making both good and disappointing and absolute shit games. Whores like him and Warren Spector or Ken Levine, with their pretentious speeches and lack of proof to show anything worthwhile for the last 10+ years, those are the real problem in here. People who are venerated by hundreds and thousands of people for no explicit fucking reason and who fool their audiences into throwing tons of money at their feet. While the raw, passionate and young talent sit in the dust and and is happy if their campaign gets a few tens of canadian dollars.


I'd say fuck Fargo too but at least that one tried to fulfill his promises and he succeeded for the most part. Wasteland 2 was not the greatest thing ever made but it's a fun romp and it does its job. When the games needed extra money, he gave them out of his own pocket, not make a phone version with publisher deals and other bullshit. Even if InXile has done a lot of shady bullshit, it wasn't as blatant or annoying as project Godus or Star Citizen.

Remember when Fargo was talking about some social network implementation in W2? Remember the backlash and how they quickly changed their minds?
If Peter Molyneux was in charge of InXile, not only would Wasteland 2 have Facebook integration, but he would also hype it as the most original and most interesting thing he ever did in his life and the reason why he's so forward-thinking. And you'd also have to pay extra if you don't want it.


So no, RPS was actually quite nice to him by starting the interview with that pathological liar question. If I was doing the interview, my first reply would've been to tell Peter to go fuck himself.
This. And yes, it deserved to be re-quoted in full.
 

tuluse

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I find it hard to believe anyone thinks Moly comes of as sympathetic. The dude took money to make a PC game and make a mobile micro-transaction machine.

Walker comes off really unprofessional though.
 

Metro

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Sometimes people deserve the back of your hand. Moly kept doing shit like this because he knew he could get away with it.
 

Norfleet

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RPS was pushing the "Kickstarter is an investment not a purchase, if everything falls apart tough luck, these people don't owe you anything" line for a while. Molyneux's a pathological liar, but RPS seem to be composed of scumbags whose moral compass is solely what's convenient for them at the moment.
If Kickstarter is supposed to be an investment, why is it that practically none of them actually offer any return, even your money back, on said investment? Exactly why should I give my money to make someone else rich for nothing in exchange? I mean, obviously, it's not meant to be a vehicle for maximum profit, but it seems to me that it is purely a loss, as even a successful project won't even get you your money back.
 

rezaf

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If Kickstarter is supposed to be an investment, why is it that practically none of them actually offer any return, even your money back, on said investment? Exactly why should I give my money to make someone else rich for nothing in exchange? I mean, obviously, it's not meant to be a vehicle for maximum profit, but it seems to me that it is purely a loss, as even a successful project won't even get you your money back.

Yeah, that's because Kickstarter is not an investment either, it's ... Kickstarter. It's basically patronage with a measure of purchase and a small dose of investment (in spirit only).
Maybe having an actual cloud investment program would be worthwile - I reckon some folks would be willing to shell out far greater sums if they had the chance for a good return - but Kickstarter isn't it.
And I'm not sure there's a chance now for such an investment program platform ever becoming reality - it's hard to forget the spectacular failures on KS.

Developing games is hard.
_____
rezaf
 

Absalom

Guest
Mollyneux, a well known scam artist, meets Kickstarter, a platform primarily designed to part gullible morons out of dat nostalgia doller. Dunno why anyone is surprised at what happened.
 

Darth Roxor

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I also think Walker does the right thing here. When a man is so known for bullshitting, and that's what you want the interview to be about, there's no way around the confrontational style.

He does not do the right thing here, and this thread is the biggest proof to the point.

Nobody wants anything less than calling ol' Pete out. But the moment you do that by going full on rage mode, you are bound to backfire and hurt your own cause. The only 'right thing' to do here is to stay professional and keep stabbing him with obnoxiously good manners that carry through kold kalculated kritique. If you don't, you're going to look like a cunt (which you probably are), and people will call you out on it, instead of focusing on the subject at hand. I'm sure you wouldn't call Daily Mail the apex of journalism, and what Walker is doing in this "interview" is exactly the Daily Mail school of writing.

And then there are some other factors at work here that have been mentioned by people previously itt, which lower the overall "journalistic" quality of the article even further. This is typical gaeming juurnizm at work, nothing less, nothing more - bandwagoning a vulnerable target that has been 'universally' declared persona non grata to get free 'we journalists now!' cred, and criticising it for shit you either stay silent about or even fucking applaud when talking with other, non-vulnerable targets.
 

Damned Registrations

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I think for a two hour long candid interview (Moly actually swears at the guy during it) Join did a pretty good job of staying calm. People are too used to edited, faux politeness bullshit interviews. If you think someone is lying to your face you should get pissed off at them.
 

Cromwell

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I think for a two hour long candid interview (Moly actually swears at the guy during it) Join did a pretty good job of staying calm. People are too used to edited, faux politeness bullshit interviews. If you think someone is lying to your face you should get pissed off at them.


Theres a difference between being faux-polite and a rude ass. I find it funny that both men are pretty much in the same boat. Moly who lost all trust he may have once had years ago and walker who is pretty much the same.

Walker tries to put him on the spot in a very idiotic way by calling him on betraying peoples trust and to make it even more funny to call out to his honor or conscience or whatever ("give money back" part). He tries to earn cred by that and people are saying hes pulled no punches and congratulating him on the tone of the interview because moly somehow deserved it because once the trust is lost you should not wonder when people are angry at you and dont trust you.

The funny part here is simply you could change walker from interviewer to interviewee and start the interview with the same fucking question, you dont have to change the interview at all just reword it a little and ask him about that rps donor money. Moly deserves to be called out, walker deserves to be punched.
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
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Feb 27, 2012
Messages
9,324
There's nothing incompetent about willingly setting yourself to make pay2win games. Just pure villainy.
Far from being a new trend in the videogame industry. Once upon a time, you had to use coins to get continues.
 

Grimlorn

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Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,248
Just read the article. Seems obvious there's something mentally wrong with Molyneux. You don't act like that in an interview. He got incredibly defensive and was acting irrationally. Accusing a journalist of trying to push him out of the industry. Whining about being held accountable for lying to consumers over his entire career. Oh poor baby, he made millions off misleading consumers and now people are calling him out on it. Cry more bitch.

50,000 hours of interviews. :lol: That's 6 years. It would take 8 hours a day every day for 18 years to do that many hours of interviews. Common tactic of people who lie constantly to use hyperbole and pity to defend themselves. I'd be willing to bet he doesn't work 16 hours a day regularly either, but who knows. If he does and he's sacrificing his family's needs just to put out this game, that still doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to consumers. It also just makes him look like a shitty father and husband. Your family problems aren't relevant when it comes to a reporter asking if you should refund the backers' money.

Too bad Walker isn't that great at the interviewing or asking good questions. There seems to be a lot of stuff he could have called Molyneux out on. Maybe Molyneux's defensiveness threw him off. It seemed pretty calculated to me because you wouldn't expect a man to start acting like a woman or a child in an interview. Molyneux did pretty well at the beginning with spinning the story but he starts falling apart at the end. He's obviously a pro at spinning things and it shows. Just imagine if Walker made the same comment about being 2 years late to Anita Sarkeesian. That'll never happen though.

The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
Yeah, the same old bullshit as we heared with Tim Schafer. Yeah, those 2 guys had nothing to do with their past great games, it was the work of other people at their team. Roofles, those games wouldn't be great without Molyneux or Schafer.
I'd bet Fable would have probably been better. A lot of the features Molyneux made up in his interviews ended up sucking and working like shit. Like the way your character aged as he got stronger. Your character started looking like an old man after awhile. Completely shallow and obviously just thrown in there because he made it up in an interview.
 
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Tehdagah

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1314194350658.gif
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
The thing with Molyneux's past games is that you never know who was really responsible. Theme Park was in large parts coded by a 16 year old Demis Hassabis. Fable was originally a game by some guys who applied for the Lionhead affiliates program, which was supposed to help young teams getting a foothold in the games industry.
Yeah, the same old bullshit as we heared with Tim Schafer. Yeah, those 2 guys had nothing to do with their past great games, it was the work of other people at their team. Roofles, those games wouldn't be great without Molyneux or Schafer.

I don't see how you can dismiss the argument like that. I mean its not like making a game is like making a movie, where the director has complete control over everything. Games are mostly a team effort, it is entirely possible for a motivated hack job to take credit for the work of others.

It's also entirely possible that they made the games great but needed some people to back them-up in order to let it happen. It's possible that Moleneux needed some down-to-earth type to tell him what he should focus on to make his games happen. I after leaving Bullfrog Moleneux made Black and White which wasn't groundbreaking but people were enthusiastic about it because familiars were an appealing idea. On the other hand Bullfrog without Moleneux didn't release anything special. Scheifer did Psychonauts with Doublefine which is regarded as one of the best 3D platformers ever. Sure he fucked up with Brutal Legand, but that's mostly because he tried to make a game in a genre he had no experience in. He also fucked up Broken Age but that's because he become full of shit, not because he lacked some mythical co-worker he had been leaching off all that time.
 

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