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Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,241
Every class dealing damage does not mean that a class is "DPS". MMO terminology is used to separate classes that can only deal damage from classes that only tank or only buff and so on. None of these apply to D&D. It's simply a stupid thing to say as bloodlover did when he stated his classes as "1 tank, one offtank, healer, thief and two DPS chars". This quote is simply meaningless in D&D in general and especially in a game based off 3rd ed like IWD2 (well semi based off 3rd ed).
 

Dreaad

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Apr 18, 2013
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Deep in your subconscious mind spreading lies.
I am very close to finishing BG2 and I since I am on a D&D spree I might as well give IWD2 a shot (this or HOTU, I'll see). I am planning to run the full party on normal difficulty. 1 tank, one offtank, healer, thief and two DPS chars (one of them sorc ofc). With this mind, I have a couple of questions:

1) How are bards in this game? I usually avoid them since they tend to be jack of all trades and master of none but maybe they are worth a damn here. I am not sure how he will fit with my party but I might consider giving him a slot if he's worth anything.

2) I will be playing my CD version of the game so any patches/widescreen mods that I should be aware of? I assume there is a "widescreen mod" like there is for BG but I feel that it stretches the image too much and makes the writing too small.

Thank you.
One fun thing about IWD2 (in fact the only thing I really enjoyed). Is that a sorc uses charisma instead of int and you can dual class any class. So go for a lvl 3 paladin then dual into a sorc, it's pretty fun.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,432
Don't miss out on an Aasimaar Cleric of Bane, maxed wisdom. By far the most OP character. You are essentially a puppet master turning enemies into putty and making them kill each other off.
 
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Taking a level or 2 of monk then going Cleric is also a nicely cheesy trick. Wis to AC bonus along with evasion.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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1) How are bards in this game? I usually avoid them since they tend to be jack of all trades and master of none but maybe they are worth a damn here. I am not sure how he will fit with my party but I might consider giving him a slot if he's worth anything.

Bards have quite a few useful songs and some class checks.

2) I will be playing my CD version of the game so any patches/widescreen mods that I should be aware of? I assume there is a "widescreen mod" like there is for BG but I feel that it stretches the image too much and makes the writing too small.

Aside from the last official patch and the tweak pack, nothing I can think of.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,432
I always play it heavily modded. Vanilla IWD2 due to banalcing by faggot SJWyer is a pretty shit game and that's really due to the poor quality of most of the content including encounters, items and areas. And it's just too pathetically easy.

Essential mods are: Tactics for tougher encounters, Almateria's Fixpack which fixes some bugs and restores content, Light of Selune to add some decent items, Widescreen Mod, the custom UI for widescreen mod (this is somewhat obscure and hard to find) and also the tweakpack for some ease of use improvements. Other mods are basically useless and have little impact on the game.
 

kmonster

Augur
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
316
I am very close to finishing BG2 and I since I am on a D&D spree I might as well give IWD2 a shot (this or HOTU, I'll see). I am planning to run the full party on normal difficulty. 1 tank, one offtank, healer, thief and two DPS chars (one of them sorc ofc). With this mind, I have a couple of questions:

1) How are bards in this game? I usually avoid them since they tend to be jack of all trades and master of none but maybe they are worth a damn here. I am not sure how he will fit with my party but I might consider giving him a slot if he's worth anything.

Bards are very useful in the game, their songs alone are worth taking a bard, with lingering song you can have 3 songs running at the same time. They're tied with druids for the 3rd most useful spot after an arcane caster and cleric. Their singing doesn't become worse by the fact that other classes can do other things better.

Make sure you max strength with characters you want do deal physical damage (especially thief and warriors), unlike in BG2 there are no items which set strength (or other attributes) to a fixed value, feel free to dump int, wis and cha for characters who don't need it.
 

Hegel

Arcane
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
3,274
There were some nice encounters in IWD2. The orc king fight and the paladin weapon party encounter come to mind. The ice priestess (the one with the mirrors) and the no-sleep demon invasion were quite a challenge.
The game wasn't bad, a bit too linear and guided, but the budget was tight.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
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Searching for my kidnapped sister
I will point out that ECL class with dual is punishing to spell level. You are exchanging more stat and effect for lower highest level of spell. It's particular punishing for cleric than wizard because divine spell is born-knowing, you dont have to buy like arcane: A level 9 cleric is better than level 9 wizard until wizard can buy spell scroll of level 5, which in this game is a limitation.

When I replay the game I might have to think about dual and/or ECL the wizard because a heavy ECL party make for a too advanced wizard, but not having enough higher spell scrolls, which is a wash. In fact, without abusing Ice Temple's Battle Square to get scrolls, your wizard was screwed in that aspect.
 

Daemongar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
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Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
I'm playing IWD2 right now and am at the Ice Temple. Being a dullard, I took flat classes just to keep the thinking to a minimum. So far, it's been challenging and fun, but a little frustrating with some of my own really bad choices. I've got sub-optimal quest results pretty regularly, from apparently messing up most of my quests. That's a part I like. I :

Pure Paladin - Human - Mace and Shield, every time I turn in a quest I bitch out loud about him not taking rewards. Reload to 20 minutes earlier for that 150 gold or some garbage.
Pure Fighter - Dwarf - best char. Two handed weapons. High con and str. Boring but perfect for this game.
Pure Ranger - Drow. Pure archer. There are a LOT of arrows in this game. Picked the wrong setting for script, and almost lost my mind as he kept trying to melee.
Pure Cleric - Some non-human class. Worships god that gives the ability to use axes. Bad choice, but I usually cast hold person every fight, so it hasn't been too bad. So many mages, though.
Pure Thief. Half-elf. Bad, bad. Dies constantly. Duals a short-sword and dagger with finesse feat for crappy damage. But, I'm just going to play this out.
Pure Wizard. Elf. Armed with crossbow. My favorite part of D&D and goldbox games is casting fireball. So sue me. Cast three fireballs per combat and some monster summoning. If there isn't a Crossbow of Speed in here, I'll be very put out.

So far, I'm ok. I'm on the 2nd level of Ice Temple and seem to be doing ok. Cleric is only level 8 because it's an Asmarr or something, so I can't cast Raise Dead (and that makes every screw up a reload.) Also forgetting to save every hour is my biggest nemesis. I've been spoiled by auto-save and checkpoints and stuff.
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Let's trigger people by using MOBA class terms instead.

Guys, how is my party? Think it's good enough for (insert D&D game name here)

2 Bruisers (Fighter /w Polearms)
2 Carries (Wizard and Sorcerer)
1 Ganker (Rogue/Illusionist Multi)
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,101
Location
USSR
Almateria's Fixpack which fixes some bugs and restores content
Mod trivia. Almateria "attempted" suicide 2 years ago and then posted about it to look for attention and pity on shsforums. She's about 18, seems pretty lonely and she's from Poland. I think she needs a strong male presence in her life. An little cutie who likes IWD. If any potato codexer wants to properly thank Almateria for her mods, he knows what to do.
 

Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
461
Did you guys ever try powergaming party to beat HoF? The one from latest Jupp. It absolutly crushes HoF mode.
 

bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
Even though they mean exactly the same?

Damage dealer is 4 syllables, DPS is 3. Guess which one will win out in the end?
Tank is tank.
Healer is healer.
Buffer is buffer.
Etc.

Like it or not, this is here to stay. Deal with it.

Except D&D isn't like this.

Warriors put out huge damage and in PnP they are also able to grapple and trip and generally fuck up anything. Nothing in D&D 'tanks', which is a retarded concept only for MMO retards.

"healers" are stronger than warriors in both durability and damage eventually, along with being able to nuke and protect the party. Healing is actually often a waste of time for them while in a battle.

Arcane casters are generally better at buffs/debuffs than damage. Loading up on 5 copies of fireball is generally considered to be a noob mistake.

It's just stupid to use degenerate MMO terminology to describe things out of the MMO-space.

Except you mostly/rarely/never do any of these things in a video game. Games have limited scripted interactions (unlike a PnP session) so your characters falls more or less into a niche where it has a basic purpose to fulfill. Yeah clerics can tank too but you are not exactly making one for being in the front lines and taking damage. I won't even mention the poor thief that gets forever stuck with disarming traps and opening chests.

Thank you all for the replies.

Some classes I like to keep "pure" so probably won't dual a sorc.
 

valcik

Arcane
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,864,690
Location
SVK
Yeah clerics can tank too but you are not exactly making one for being in the front lines and taking damage.
Well, that's exactly how I played IWD with my cleric priest actually:
1. Cast Sanctuary spell
2. Cast Entropy Shield spell
3. Waltz right in the middle of any Cold Wights legion in Dragon's Eye caverns
4. Cast Prayer
5. Leave sanctuary and start SLAUGHTER!
 
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Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Messages
27,211
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Every class dealing damage does not mean that a class is "DPS". MMO terminology is used to separate classes that can only deal damage from classes that only tank or only buff and so on. None of these apply to D&D. It's simply a stupid thing to say as bloodlover did when he stated his classes as "1 tank, one offtank, healer, thief and two DPS chars". This quote is simply meaningless in D&D in general and especially in a game based off 3rd ed like IWD2 (well semi based off 3rd ed).

Again, you are ignoring the fact that I am only applying these terms to some D&D video games - not D&D as a whole.

With that said, D&D is not exempt from utilitarian terminology from other game systems - one just has to know when and where it applies.
 
Joined
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Messages
14,241
Except you mostly/rarely/never do any of these things in a video game. Games have limited scripted interactions (unlike a PnP session) so your characters falls more or less into a niche where it has a basic purpose to fulfill. Yeah clerics can tank too but you are not exactly making one for being in the front lines and taking damage. I won't even mention the poor thief that gets forever stuck with disarming traps and opening chests.

Thank you all for the replies.

Some classes I like to keep "pure" so probably won't dual a sorc.

So let me check which classes you wanted.

Fighters can tank and DPS
Thieves can tank (high dex + evasion) and DPS
Paladins can tank and DPS.
Priests/Druids can tank (high armor + buffs), DPS and heal. Priests especially are intended to be frontline warriors in D&D, whatever your intent when making them.
Arcane casters (incl bards) can tank (illusion spells) and DPS.
And virtually anything can take thief skills, especially Wizards with high INT.

So your statement of "1 tank, one offtank, healer, thief and two DPS chars" effectively means "1 priest/druid, and 5 of any class which may also include more priests/druids". Except Monk of course because Monks suck at everything :lol:
 
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Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
461
The way things works in IWD2 is that druids, sorcerers, wizards and clerics are kings, other classes just little dips.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
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Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
It's also worth remembering that IWD2 is as much a puzzle game as it is a combat game. It's mostly remembered as a combat game because the 2nd section of the game is quite a long drive through reams of Orcs on your way to the Orc Castle. However, it's normally the puzzling aspect which gets to most people, either positively or negatively, what with there being no end of really, really good cRPG puzzles.

Even if you OP all the combat to insignificance, the puzzles will still be just as hard as if you had a regular party. Off the top of my head there's the Bridge Dynamite timed puzzle, navigating Fell Wood, the Time Travel story game, the Ice Temple Alternate Plains, the Seven Monk Trials, Summoning The Guardian, and likely many more that have briefly escaped my memory.

Now, I'm not a great fan of puzzles, especially Adventure Game puzzles like Slidey Puzzles, Combining Items, Pixel Hunting etc, but these aren't those types of puzzles, these are all genuinely good cRPG 'proper' puzzles, the kind that blend perfectly with D&D type adventures. If there's one thing modern games players and developers could benefit from taking from IWD2 it's the puzzle implementation IMO. Many are, without any doubt from me, some of the best cRPG puzzling I've ever enjoyed.

As an example, here's a spoiler heavy guide-map to the Fell Wood I drew up once, do not open if you want to work out Fell Wood for yourself, feel free to download and keep if you want for future games:

Fell%20Wood_zpshijafgvt.png

What other cRPGs of the post-Wizardry era would require a map like that for one of its stages!
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
815
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
As an example, here's a spoiler heavy guide-map to the Fell Wood I drew up once, do not open if you want to work out Fell Wood for yourself, feel free to download and keep if you want for future games:
Why do so many people have problems with Fell Wood? You just need one character with high wisdom/wilderness lore and check each time you enter a new location. It doesn't outright tell you where to go but it might as well.
 

pippin

Guest
wilderness lore

Almost every guide reccomends you to get a few points of WL because of that location. The game's been out for like 13 years already men, and it's not like IWD2 has a wonderous hidden element that sets it apart from all the other IE games.
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
815
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sure, but there have been complaints about the Fell Wood since the game was released. There are people who dropped the game because they got stuck there, and it's not even a hard puzzle, more of an intermission between fights.

Edit: just to be clear, I LIKE Fell Wood. It has a great atmosphere and the gimmick with winding paths is pretty cool, I just don't get how you can get stuck there. There is even a dryad that gives you directions to the heart of the wood if you ask her.
 
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Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

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7,407
it's not like IWD2 has a wonderous hidden element that sets it apart from all the other IE games.

It has and it is though. It's the only one that's 3rd ed. And it's the only one with a heavy puzzle-centric core. If it was pure combat you'd likely hear more love for it. If it was combat and romances you'd probably hear more love for it. IWD2 is combat and puzzles, how often do you hear people talking about puzzles in cRPGs? It's not a popular niche, but one that used to be considered as much a cRPG tradition as any other.

You don't 'need' any points in Wilderness Lore, you just have to enjoy solving puzzles. Having the puzzle made easier by utilising a character build option, but still as solvable without, is very good design is it not? Aren't people on this site often bemoaning the fact that more cRPGs should have exactly this kind of situation?
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
815
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
IWD 2 does have some pretty major things that can be missed if you don't read the guides.

Lost Followers? Probably the hardest fight in the game, completely optional.

The Guardian? Also optional. I didn't summon him on my first playthrough.

The one puzzle I didn't like was the volcano, it dragged on too long and was too dependent on triggering dialogues.
 

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