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The List of Incline - 2015 Edition

Which of these games are you looking forward to? (multiple responses allowed)


  • Total voters
    545

Goral

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And Banner Saga has exceptional RPG mechanics? Or Barkley? lol
Most of the games above are on paper/web page only, there is no demo or early access and it's on this list on promises only. Why do you think Underrail and AoD got almost as many votes as Josh Sawyer's shitty game?
(...) It just seems more like a H&S vampire game.
Have you played the early access version or you're just guessing? How can this game get the "overwhelming consensus" when none of the Codex staff wants to try it even.

Obviously it's not in AoD or even Underrail league but it is the best vampire game (not only cRPG) since Bloodlines and even on Codex only few people heard about it. A little exposure could only help in improving this game. It's also worth mentioning that the author didn't go for the cash-grab Kickstarter. If you can add games to the poll you can also remove them later if you really want. Also, Wasteland 2 was one of the titles that got the most votes and quite a few people thought in the end that it's shit. I hope I don't have to explain why this is relevant to this discussion.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You connected in any way to the developers of this game, Goral? :M

I'll add it to OP but not to the poll.
 

Goral

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You connected in any way to the developers of this game, Goral?

I'll add it to OP but not to the poll.
If anything you should ask if I'm connected in any way to Iron Tower since I've praised AoD like a bot (obviously I'm in no way connected to them, although I wish I was :P). No, I'm not connected to the developers, I haven't even bought the early access version yet (I'm planning to buy a GOG version) but I find this game very underappreciated. What's more, for some unknown reason I'm really annoyed that titles like PoE have so much hype even though they have no originality whatsoever (IMO of course).

Anyway, thanks for adding it to the OP.
 

V_K

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Well, judging from the RPS preview it does have some fairly interesing mechanics (or at least they sound interesting, I don't have the time to check):
The puzzles are more engaging than most – not because they are especially clever, but because they allow you to overcome them via a variety of bespoke mechanics, or bypass them entirely. A discipline can be learnt that transforms you into a mist capable of passing through gates and bars, while another gives you a magical vision mode, Second Sight, with which you can spot hidden doors. Alternatively, you can transfer your consciousness to a glowing ball of light that can zip through narrow gaps or across chasms, flipping switches or powering up those giant screaming stone heads that temple architects love so much.
Nestled within it is a system of character development broader and more varied than most RPGs of recent memory. Right from the outset there are oodles of attributes to tweak, hot-key skills to assign and talent trees to unlock (which randomise with every new character). These pretty quickly shift your avatar from Generic Neonate to Esoteric Netherbeast: I set out with a slightly bland warrior build just to get my footing in the game, but almost immediately ended up with outlandish specialisations by which I summon crows and psychically dominate enemies to attack each other. And, thanks to an upgraded bite skill, I’ve sired an entire lineage of vampiric vagrants and prostitutes to do my bidding. Putting aside the moral implications of predating on society’s most vulnerable, this is really quite cool: I can summon them to shamble into battle with me, send them to search for loot independently, or instruct them to nibble on yet more hapless humans, creating a sprawling family tree with myself at the top.
I'd say it has the potential to turn out fairly incline-ish.
 

Goral

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(...) Are you going to add Dragon Age: Inquisition then as well?
Seeing how Dragon Age: Origins is on the RPG Codex curators list, it wouldn't surprise me.

The difference between DA and B:S is that the former is an AAA game with humongous budget and the latter is an indie game with almost nonexistent budget. I always thought that RPG Codex prefers independent developers over wealthy ones...
BTW, since you're so certain it's not "incline" game I assume you've finished the demo at least?
 

LJ40

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I like to think the Codex prefers good RPGs and that the fact that they're coming from the indies right now makes it seem that way. Out of the top 70 RPG list, how many are indies?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
According to its Kickstarter, Seven Dragon Saga's release date is August 2016.
 

Deleted member 7219

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So, I want to see if we can get an update on the status of incline this year. I've thrown a list of where I think games are at. I would appreciate hearing other people's thoughts, particularly those more clued up than I am on Dead State.

Pillars of Eternity
Released, patches are being released almost weekly, two(?) expansions are on the way and Feargus wants to release them sooner rather than later

Wasteland 2
SUPER DIRECTOR'S CUT coming to Xbox One this year, based on Unity 5 - will it make its way to PC?

Torment: Tides of Numenera
No word, but still expected for a late 2015 release?

Shadowrun: Hong Kong
Summer release with free (for backers) epilogue DLC coming Autumn/Winter 2015

Divinity: Original Sin
I seem to remember Larian announced some kind of GOTY edition is in the works?

Dead State
Still being patched, will more features come later this year?

Age of Decadence
Seems to be well on course for a 2015 release, monthly updates, devs communicative as always
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Added Dungeons of Aledorn to OP

Release date is February 2017 (although on Greenlight they say Q4 2016)
 

Jarpie

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After seeing bunch of rpgs coming in the last two years I'm starting to think that it's too late for the incline, there was too long gap, about ten years between the last batch of the traditional rpgs and the new ones. The know-how, the culture and especially tradition of making rpgs vanished from the old generation who are now too old and the younger generation don't know how to make them, and maybe more importantly, haven't played enough of the old games.

I touched on this in one of the Eternity threads, but you have to know the ins and outs of the genre you're making and playing to know in advance what will most probably work and what wouldn't work, let's take the PoE as an example and if it's true that Sawyer listened the retarded goons in SA/badgame when designing the mechanics and the systems for the combat without hard-counters, immunities and strong debuffs/buffs/cc with ways to dispel them because SA/badgame retards cried that they don't like those because it's too "chess-like", and what do you know? The combat became (very) repetitive because the mechanics lacks anything where you'd have to change your approach or react to in combat.

The long lasting legacy of rpgs lies in two things in my opinion, for which you need at least one of them, preferably both: Enough complexity in the combat and great narrative. Baldur's Gate 2 has the legacy because the encounter design is great and mechanics are mostly solid, especially with the help of the mods even though the writing and the story are very forgettable, and frankly quite shit, Arcanum has banal shit boring combat but the writing and setting is strong enough to get it the cult status, Fallout 1 and 2 combat is mostly meh but the writing and the settings are great and very memorable so it has the lasting legacy, Ultimas 4-7 have decent enough combat for the time, and the depthness of the themes carries them for them to have lasting legacy, and so on.

From the games released in the couple last years, I don't think any of them have that kind of lasting (cult) legacy except for being Kickstarter successes...potentially T:ToN might, depending on how good it is, and the potential sequels for Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity maybe if the devs learns from the mistakes in the both ones...and starts to listen us FFS!
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
From the games released in the couple last years, I don't think any of them have that kind of lasting (cult) legacy

Or maybe it's just an age thing. (I think one of the reasons Arcanum tends to be disregarded more than some of those other games you mentioned is that it's also a bit newer than them. Ditto Icewind Dale 2.)

I might make a thread about this.
 
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Jarpie

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From the games released in the couple last years, I don't think any of them have that kind of lasting (cult) legacy

Or maybe it's just an age thing. (I think one of the reasons Arcanum tends to be disregarded more than some of those other games you mentioned is that it's also a bit newer than them. Ditto Icewind Dale 2.)

I think I'll make a thread about this.

Arcanum was released only year later than BG2.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
From the games released in the couple last years, I don't think any of them have that kind of lasting (cult) legacy

Or maybe it's just an age thing. (I think one of the reasons Arcanum tends to be disregarded more than some of those other games you mentioned is that it's also a bit newer than them. Ditto Icewind Dale 2.)

I think I'll make a thread about this.

Arcanum was released only year later than BG2.

Yeah, but three years after the Fallouts, where most of its potential fanbase came from.

I touched on this in one of the Eternity threads, but you have to know the ins and outs of the genre you're making and playing to know in advance what will most probably work and what wouldn't work, let's take the PoE as an example and if it's true that Sawyer listened the retarded goons in SA/badgame when designing the mechanics and the systems for the combat without hard-counters, immunities and strong debuffs/buffs/cc with ways to dispel them because SA/badgame retards cried that they don't like those because it's too "chess-like", and what do you know? The combat became (very) repetitive because the mechanics lacks anything where you'd have to change your approach or react to in combat.

I don't think hard counters or save-or-dies are a requirement to make combat reactive. It is true that the modern philosophy of RPG design puts more emphasis on the "roleplaying" than the "game":

That's the challenge of designing an RPG - balancing the needs of the "roleplaying" part (supporting what the player wants to be) with the needs of the "game" part (generating challenge based on what the player needs to be or should be).

Pillars of Eternity puts more emphasis on the former than D&D, and that is at the root of all the butthurt that it's been causing for the past two and a half years.

It might be tempting to think that Sawyer et al "forgot" how to make RPGs because they've been dead for too long, but this actually mirrors trends in PnP RPG design over the years that never stopped, which already began with D&D 3E.
 
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Athelas

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After seeing bunch of rpgs coming in the last two years I'm starting to think that it's too late for the inclane, there was too long gap, about ten years between the last batch of the traditional rpgs and the new ones. The know-how, the culture and especially tradition of making rpgs vanished from the old generation who are now too old and the younger generation don't know how to make them, and maybe more importantly, haven't played enough of the old games.

I touched on this in one of the Eternity threads, but you have to know the ins and outs of the genre you're making and playing to know in advance what will most probably work and what wouldn't work, let's take the PoE as an example and if it's true that Sawyer listened the retarded goons in SA/badgame when designing the mechanics and the systems for the combat without hard-counters, immunities and strong debuffs/buffs/cc with ways to dispel them because SA/badgame retards cried that they don't like those because it's too "chess-like", and what do you know? The combat became (very) repetitive because the mechanics lacks anything where you'd have to change your approach or react to in combat.
PoE's systems could only be designed by someone with an extremely holistic, practically autistic view of cRPG and table top systems. That doesn't mean the systems are any good, but lack of know-how is not the cause of the issues.
 

Jarpie

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From the games released in the couple last years, I don't think any of them have that kind of lasting (cult) legacy

Or maybe it's just an age thing. (I think one of the reasons Arcanum tends to be disregarded more than some of those other games you mentioned is that it's also a bit newer than them. Ditto Icewind Dale 2.)

I think I'll make a thread about this.

Arcanum was released only year later than BG2.

Yeah, but three years after the Fallouts, where most of its potential fanbase came from.

Ah good point, afaik Arcanum also was one of the last traditional higher profile isometric rpgs.

I touched on this in one of the Eternity threads, but you have to know the ins and outs of the genre you're making and playing to know in advance what will most probably work and what wouldn't work, let's take the PoE as an example and if it's true that Sawyer listened the retarded goons in SA/badgame when designing the mechanics and the systems for the combat without hard-counters, immunities and strong debuffs/buffs/cc with ways to dispel them because SA/badgame retards cried that they don't like those because it's too "chess-like", and what do you know? The combat became (very) repetitive because the mechanics lacks anything where you'd have to change your approach or react to in combat.

I don't think hard counters or save-or-dies are a requirement to make combat reactive. It is true that the modern philosophy of RPGs puts more emphasis on the "roleplaying" than the "game" compared to the past:

Not necessarely requirement but they would've made the encounters in Eternity quite a bit more interesting because the creatures chosen for the encounters weren't that interesting, but you are right about the changing philosophy, I'd love to get a game which hits that sweet sweet spot in between of the both extremes.

That's the challenge of designing an RPG - balancing the needs of the "roleplaying" part (supporting what the player wants to be) with the needs of the "game" part (generating challenge based on what the player needs to be or should be).

Pillars of Eternity puts more emphasis on the former than D&D, and that is at the root of all the butthurt that it's been causing for the past two and a half years.

It might be tempting to think that Sawyer et al "had no idea what they were doing" because RPGs have been dead for too long and they "forgot", but this actually mirrors trends in PnP RPG design over the years that never stopped, which already began with D&D 3E.

Perhaps, but I do think it's the tradition dying of the old fashioned rpgs which partly affected how Sawyer designed PoE, and that there haven't been really party-based isometric rpgs made in the past ten years with very few exceptions. We know those games inside-and-out because we've been playing them for years over and over again, but has Obsidian people? You possibly can't learn everything you need from one playthrough in once a decade while making the spiritual successor to the original games, so yes, I do think it's partly "had no idea what they were doing".

After seeing bunch of rpgs coming in the last two years I'm starting to think that it's too late for the inclane, there was too long gap, about ten years between the last batch of the traditional rpgs and the new ones. The know-how, the culture and especially tradition of making rpgs vanished from the old generation who are now too old and the younger generation don't know how to make them, and maybe more importantly, haven't played enough of the old games.

I touched on this in one of the Eternity threads, but you have to know the ins and outs of the genre you're making and playing to know in advance what will most probably work and what wouldn't work, let's take the PoE as an example and if it's true that Sawyer listened the retarded goons in SA/badgame when designing the mechanics and the systems for the combat without hard-counters, immunities and strong debuffs/buffs/cc with ways to dispel them because SA/badgame retards cried that they don't like those because it's too "chess-like", and what do you know? The combat became (very) repetitive because the mechanics lacks anything where you'd have to change your approach or react to in combat.
PoE's systems could only be designed by someone with an extremely holistic, practically autistic view of cRPG and table top systems. That doesn't mean the systems are any good, but lack of know-how is not the cause of the issues.

Know-how how to implement them is part of the cause I think, in theory his designs probably sounded good but put in practice, they were found lacking, if they'd been doing more traditional rpgs in the past, they might've known better that it won't work.
 

Athelas

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Know-how how to implement them is part of the cause I think, in theory his designs probably sounded good but put in practice, they were found lacking, if they'd been doing more traditional rpgs in the past, they might've known better that it won't work.
1837607-neverwinter_nights_2_cover.jpg


:M
 

Jarpie

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Know-how how to implement them is part of the cause I think, in theory his designs probably sounded good but put in practice, they were found lacking, if they'd been doing more traditional rpgs in the past, they might've known better that it won't work.
1837607-neverwinter_nights_2_cover.jpg


:M

NWN2 had fucking shit mechanics and engine, so they apparently didn't learn much :smug:

Edit: that was also years before Eternity, so if they learned, they forgot. You gotta keep sharp in anything you do or you'll lose the edge.
 

Athelas

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Know-how how to implement them is part of the cause I think, in theory his designs probably sounded good but put in practice, they were found lacking, if they'd been doing more traditional rpgs in the past, they might've known better that it won't work.
1837607-neverwinter_nights_2_cover.jpg


:M

NWN2 had fucking shit mechanics and engine, so they apparently didn't learn much :smug:
Sure, but the issues faced by NWN2 and PoE are somewhat different. NWN2 also used D&D (like the IE games), throwing another spanner in your argument.

Edit: that was also years before Eternity, so if they learned, they forgot. You gotta keep sharp in anything you do or you'll lose the edge.
NWN2 was released in 2006 (and received expansions and support up until 2009 or so), the PoE Kickstarter was launched in 2012. That's not a huge gap. For example, Jade Empire and Dragon Age: Origins were released more than four years apart.
 

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