Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Elwro]

I wanted to really play MM8 finally (finished MM7 and, I think, MM6 years agi).

So, I installed:

- Greyface's MM8 patch from here:
https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm#TOC-GrayFace-MM8-Patch-v1.5.1
- and his mouselook settings from here: https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm/MM8MouseLook.rar?attredirects=0

(On Win 7 64bit).

Now, mouselook works fine, but according to the readme the keys were supposed to change to the following:
WASD - Movement (default keys: arrows)
Q - Attack (default key: A)
E - Quick Spell (default key: S)
F - Jump (default key: X)
V - Land (default key: Home)
X - Quests (default key: Q)
F5 - Quick Save (default key: F11)
F8 - Quick Load (no default key)
Mouse Wheel Up/Down - Fly Up/Down

Unfortunately it's not working. F5 does quick save, but the non-F keys have not been changed. 'A' still attacks, 'W' still does nothing etc.

What should I do?

 

[Luzur]

I wanted to really play MM8 finally (finished MM7 and, I think, MM6 years agi).

So, I installed:

- Greyface's MM8 patch from here:
https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm#TOC-GrayFace-MM8-Patch-v1.5.1
- and his mouselook settings from here: https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm/MM8MouseLook.rar?attredirects=0

(On Win 7 64bit).

Now, mouselook works fine, but according to the readme the keys were supposed to change to the following:
WASD - Movement (default keys: arrows)
Q - Attack (default key: A)
E - Quick Spell (default key: S)
F - Jump (default key: X)
V - Land (default key: Home)
X - Quests (default key: Q)
F5 - Quick Save (default key: F11)
F8 - Quick Load (no default key)
Mouse Wheel Up/Down - Fly Up/Down

Unfortunately it's not working. F5 does quick save, but the non-F keys have not been changed. 'A' still attacks, 'W' still does nothing etc.

What should I do?

hmm, i thought Greyface updated that patch some time ago, you checked the Heroes Round Table forums?

here is the thread:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10240&start=60

 

[Elwro]

Well, I'm dumb. Turns out you can edit the keybindings in the main menu. I thought the keys were hardcoded... The game runs wonderfully with the mouselook.

 

[DaveO]

I'm not sure if the GreyFace patches ever fixed problems with the Jump spell in MM8. You can't complete the Wasp Nest location with newer hardware. On an older machine, Jump works as intended. I don't know where Jump becomes useless in terms of machine specs.

 

[Broseph]

The wasp nest is possible but very, very annoying. You get plenty of Jump scrolls in the chest outside and I still had to savescum to get through it.

 

[Servo]

Screw this game. MM1 was fun for a few hours but now that I know the mechanics I have zero desire to play it.

Not sure if I should skip straight to MM2 or try something else first.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Screw this game. MM1 was fun for a few hours but now that I know the mechanics I have zero desire to play it.

Not sure if I should skip straight to MM2 or try something else first.

What's wrong with MM1's mechanics? It's still the best game of the series when it comes to tactical difficulty. Enemies are often mixed units where you have to balance considerations in regards to whether or not to go after their status effecting or spell slinging monsters in the back of a formation, or worry about the bruisers wrecking havoc up front. Formation ranks and party positions matter. Low level spellcasting enemies can still pose a level of threat later in the game, and most of your spells that you can cast have some use throughout. The interface is quicker to use than the mouse driven versions in later games once you begin to remember preferred patterns. Exploration is fun as there is plenty to find and do in every zone. I really don't know why you do not like the mechanics, and it's sad you are skipping it.

If you insist on skipping this one, you'll want to skip MM2 also since it is very similar, and go to MM3, which is much different.

 

[Servo]

I didn't say anything was wrong with the mechanics necessarily. I enjoy the difficulty level, combat is quick, tactical and good fun. I'm just bored out of my mind and can't muster the will to play it anymore.

 

[Scroo]

 

[Servo]

Well correct me if I'm wrong but so far the game consists of nothing but combat. Over and over and over and over and over and... I mean the combat is good and all but there's nothing to it. It's like glorified war (the card game).

I don't see the point in forcing myself to play through it if it's just more of the same. I heard there were quests of some sort but I haven't found any.

 

[Redlands]

To be honest, MM1 doesn't really sound like the game for you. Outside of combat and exploration, there's a few quests but they mostly rely on you exploring around and making notes (and thus fighting to get to different locations). Combat does get more interesting later, when you have different spells and have to come up with different tactics, but if you're not liking it now there's a good chance you won't like it.

MM2 is pretty similar, though there's a bit more meat: class upgrades and hunting down different skills and spells. Additionally, the graphics are much nicer (assuming you're playing the PC or similar versions). You can import your party from 1 into 2, but I don't think it makes too much difference and I don't think you get anything special if you skip 1. But again, there's a lot of combat that can get pretty tedious if you're bored with it.

 

[Elwro]

Some MM8 questions:

-- is the highest perception among the group always used, or the perception of the leader?
-- similar with merchant: I guess only the skill of the current char matters?
-- similar with disarm traps: should I always change to the char with highest DT skill before opening a chest?

If you need to always make sure you end up with the char with the highest skill at a given moment, then damn, this will be one tedious game. (Levl 9 so far, so yeah, still early.)

Also, my game crashes when I try to display my Necromancer's stats. (I recruited him on the first island.) Did anyone have this issue? It wasn't like that yesterday...

 

[Pope Amole II]

The skills of the chosen character are used, but the thing is - why do you even bother with those skills? Once you get regeneration & day of protection spells running up, you stop caring about traps (alternatively, use telekinesis spell to open trapped stuff). There are few secrets in the game and most of them are easily found without perception. And there's so muchmoney (and no ways of spending them all) that merchant skill is an overkill - what's the point, to have a couple millions deadweighting your bank account?

 

[Elwro]

Thanks. Well, I'm playing without consulting walkthroughs etc (even your LP), so at the moment I'm at (finished the first islands and Smugglers' Cove) I thought I should invest in those skills. I didn't even have the cash to buy expert skills or good spellbooks because everything went into identifying items. But now that I got about 15k of gold from the Cove, maybe that will change.

 

[Servo]

Deuce Traveler I respect your opinion so I want to address your post better than I did before. Also I'm trying to get at precisely what bothers me about the game and why I'm bored with it, so I can figure out what I'm doing wrong and how to enjoy the game more.

It's still the best game of the series when it comes to tactical difficulty. Enemies are often mixed units where you have to balance considerations in regards to whether or not to go after their status effecting or spell slinging monsters in the back of a formation, or worry about the bruisers wrecking havoc up front. Formation ranks and party positions matter. Low level spellcasting enemies can still pose a level of threat later in the game, and most of your spells that you can cast have some use throughout.

This is the part I was addressing before when I said I do enjoy the difficulty and tactics of combat. No complaints from me here.

The interface is quicker to use than the mouse driven versions in later games once you begin to remember preferred patterns.

Again, no argument. As a CLI/Unix snob I enjoy the command/keyboard interface much more than clicking around on the screen looking for things that are interactive. Also I can appreciate that there are no animations slowing down the action on screen, even if I don't normally mind that sort of thing.

Exploration is fun as there is plenty to find and do in every zone.

This is the part I don't get. What about the exploration is fun? What is there to do besides combat? My inner autist/OCD sort of enjoys mapping, but it's annoying when I'm exploring a zone and run into a group of monsters that mop the floor with my party, and have to go back to grinding in Sorpigal (fucking sprites - I hate them). And, like I pointed out earlier in this thread, grinding in this game boils down to a lot of randomness. An encounter with a group of gnomes might be a breeze once because you get awesome rolls, but the next encounter with the same exact group is a bitch because you get shitty rolls. It's really tedious. I'm just not sure what the point is unless there really is more to the game that I haven't discovered yet.

 

[Abelian]

when I'm exploring a zone and run into a group of monsters that mop the floor with my party, and have to go back to grinding in Sorpigal (fucking sprites - I hate them). And, like I pointed out earlier in this thread, grinding in this game boils down to a lot of randomness. An encounter with a group of gnomes might be a breeze once because you get awesome rolls, but the next encounter with the same exact group is a bitch because you get shitty rolls. It's really tedious. I'm just not sure what the point is unless there really is more to the game that I haven't discovered yet.

the 'inns only' save system is not really enjoyable for me (I'm not oldschool enough I guess). Is anyone aware of software that allows save states in Dosbox?

Normally I'd say "tough it up noob!" but TBH if I were to replay MM1 now I probably wouldn't the patience to put up with the save system. So, yes, there is a way. Get this SVN build of DOSBox, which supports save states. (it also has a whole load of nice extras compared to vanilla DOSBox, including integrated Glide and MT-32 wrappers. I use it exclusively now)

Alternatively, if you encounter a group of enemies that you know are going to beat you, try retreating. As long as you have at least one character still alive and conscious, you can heal/resurrect the party in town.

 

[Minttunator]

Thanks. Well, I'm playing without consulting walkthroughs etc (even your LP), so at the moment I'm at (finished the first islands and Smugglers' Cove) I thought I should invest in those skills. I didn't even have the cash to buy expert skills or good spellbooks because everything went into identifying items. But now that I got about 15k of gold from the Cove, maybe that will change.

There's a really simple way to make money in MM8 once you get access to some more locations - I'm going to use spoiler tags in case you want to figure it out yourself, though.

Spoiler

Apart from the normal merchants, there are "special" merchants in the towns who buy and sell various items. The first ones you meet deal in Tobersk products - i.e. one guy sells Tobersk pulp, another guy in another town buys Tobersk pulp (for more than you bought it for) and sells Tobersk brandy, etc. Later NPCs deal in more expensive items - which will turn a larger profit for you. You can make pretty much unlimited money this way - it's cheesy, but I wouldn't say it's an exploit, either. MM8 is just, in several ways, a fairly easy game to break.

 

[Luzur]

Thanks. Well, I'm playing without consulting walkthroughs etc (even your LP), so at the moment I'm at (finished the first islands and Smugglers' Cove) I thought I should invest in those skills. I didn't even have the cash to buy expert skills or good spellbooks because everything went into identifying items. But now that I got about 15k of gold from the Cove, maybe that will change.

There's a really simple way to make money in MM8 once you get access to some more locations - I'm going to use spoiler tags in case you want to figure it out yourself, though.

Spoiler

Apart from the normal merchants, there are "special" merchants in the towns who buy and sell various items. The first ones you meet deal in Tobersk products - i.e. one guy sells Tobersk pulp, another guy in another town buys Tobersk pulp (for more than you bought it for) and sells Tobersk brandy, etc. Later NPCs deal in more expensive items - which will turn a larger profit for you. You can make pretty much unlimited money this way - it's cheesy, but I wouldn't say it's an exploit, either. MM8 is just, in several ways, a fairly easy game to break.

i thought that merchant trick was kinda known.

 

[Minttunator]

i thought that merchant trick was kinda known.

Maybe Elwro didn't know about it if he's playing for the first time and without walkthroughs? I'm just trying to be helpful.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Well yeah it's not that much a trick. Thing is - you buy something from one merchant, went to adventure and remind about those merchants when you swim in dosh.

 

[octavius]

when I'm exploring a zone and run into a group of monsters that mop the floor with my party, and have to go back to grinding in Sorpigal (fucking sprites - I hate them). And, like I pointed out earlier in this thread, grinding in this game boils down to a lot of randomness. An encounter with a group of gnomes might be a breeze once because you get awesome rolls, but the next encounter with the same exact group is a bitch because you get shitty rolls. It's really tedious. I'm just not sure what the point is unless there really is more to the game that I haven't discovered yet.

the 'inns only' save system is not really enjoyable for me (I'm not oldschool enough I guess). Is anyone aware of software that allows save states in Dosbox?

Normally I'd say "tough it up noob!" but TBH if I were to replay MM1 now I probably wouldn't the patience to put up with the save system. So, yes, there is a way. Get this SVN build of DOSBox, which supports save states. (it also has a whole load of nice extras compared to vanilla DOSBox, including integrated Glide and MT-32 wrappers. I use it exclusively now)

Alternatively, if you encounter a group of enemies that you know are going to beat you, try retreating. As long as you have at least one character still alive and conscious, you can heal/resurrect the party in town.

Also, keep in mind that monsters are scaled to area. Current area too hard? Try a different one.

 

[Luzur]

when I'm exploring a zone and run into a group of monsters that mop the floor with my party, and have to go back to grinding in Sorpigal (fucking sprites - I hate them). And, like I pointed out earlier in this thread, grinding in this game boils down to a lot of randomness. An encounter with a group of gnomes might be a breeze once because you get awesome rolls, but the next encounter with the same exact group is a bitch because you get shitty rolls. It's really tedious. I'm just not sure what the point is unless there really is more to the game that I haven't discovered yet.

the 'inns only' save system is not really enjoyable for me (I'm not oldschool enough I guess). Is anyone aware of software that allows save states in Dosbox?

Normally I'd say "tough it up noob!" but TBH if I were to replay MM1 now I probably wouldn't the patience to put up with the save system. So, yes, there is a way. Get this SVN build of DOSBox, which supports save states. (it also has a whole load of nice extras compared to vanilla DOSBox, including integrated Glide and MT-32 wrappers. I use it exclusively now)

Alternatively, if you encounter a group of enemies that you know are going to beat you, try retreating. As long as you have at least one character still alive and conscious, you can heal/resurrect the party in town.

Also, keep in mind that monsters are scaled to area. Current area too hard? Try a different one.

or: current area too hard? learn Fly and air raid those fuckers!

 

[Elwro]

i thought that merchant trick was kinda known.

Maybe Elwro didn't know about it if he's playing for the first time and without walkthroughs? I'm just trying to be helpful.

Yeah, thanks! I found one merchant of this kind but haven't checked the prices yet.

 

[Servo]

the 'inns only' save system is not really enjoyable for me (I'm not oldschool enough I guess). Is anyone aware of software that allows save states in Dosbox?

Normally I'd say "tough it up noob!" but TBH if I were to replay MM1 now I probably wouldn't the patience to put up with the save system. So, yes, there is a way. Get this SVN build of DOSBox, which supports save states. (it also has a whole load of nice extras compared to vanilla DOSBox, including integrated Glide and MT-32 wrappers. I use it exclusively now)

SVN-Daum has so many features *_*

Let's see if cheating my way through MM1 makes it more tolerable.

 

[Luzur]

the 'inns only' save system is not really enjoyable for me (I'm not oldschool enough I guess). Is anyone aware of software that allows save states in Dosbox?

Normally I'd say "tough it up noob!" but TBH if I were to replay MM1 now I probably wouldn't the patience to put up with the save system. So, yes, there is a way. Get this SVN build of DOSBox, which supports save states. (it also has a whole load of nice extras compared to vanilla DOSBox, including integrated Glide and MT-32 wrappers. I use it exclusively now)

SVN-Daum has so many features *_*

Let's see if cheating my way through MM1 makes it more tolerable.

there is also that codexers MM1 editor program.

prob full of trojans and stuff, but you'll never know.