Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Luzur]

I'm not saying it's impossible to do; just that it would take a significant time investment that few people would appreciate in the end.

I totally agree with that.

I've always wondered how much value can be gotten from borrowing code from a project like Dungeon Eye (http://www.dungeoneye.net/). Sure it's a completely different engine for a different game, but I can imagine that if the engine is a good, modern implementation with some very robust modularity one could plugin in a different combat system, and change up the UI a bit. Data formats will probably be crystal clear, and expandable as well. M&M never used the deepest systems ever.

The only notable Open-Source RPG projects/engine clones I know are GemRB (Infinity Engine), Dungeon Eye (Eye Of The Beholder), xBaK (Betrayal At Krondor), coab (Curse of the Azure Bonds), but that's about it. Strange no-one ever made a more modular blobber-engine, considering how they often had very similar gameplay.

Spoiler

There's also stuff like xoreos, Iris2, the many Ultima engine remakes (xu4, Nuvie, Exult, Pentagram) and OpenXcom (if you classify that as an RPG, which I do)

dont forget FRUA.

 

[Watser]

Haven't played through the M&M games so far, only a couple of HoMM. At the moment I'm during Tribes of the East exp-pack and decided once thats completed it's time for a MM I-X playthrough

It's gonna be glorious

And so it begins, The Sadistic Adventures of Watser & Friends has begun, featuring the Codex' very own Smashing Axe

 

[Natreg]

I have just started playing the M&M series from the beginning. I played quite a bit of Clouds of Xeen when I was a kid, but I always prefer to start from the very first game so that I can understand the story as it was planned.

Having said this, I'm having some trouble with M&M1 (PC version). Everyone says the start of the game is unbalanced, but I actually didn't have much trouble with that (thanks to the Sleep spell), but right now I'm at level 9 and I'm finding several encounters that seem way too difficult for my party. I'm having trouble for the most part with high level spellcasters like Succubus Queen, Greater Demons (Portsmith) and Vampires (Dusk). They usually bombard me with Fireballs and my protection from fire doesn't seem to do much. Also, I am unable to survive creatures that use Finger of death and Erradication.
Until those encounters started to show up I didn't have much trouble. Are there ways to protect against those attacks or I'm just not high level enough for them?

Also, I'm wondering. What's the max level in M&M1 PC?

I'm really enjoying Might & Magic 1 so far even though I still prefer the Ultima series. It's been a long time since I have had so much fun exploring and mapping on a RPG. I really wish I had more free time nowadays so I could play longer each day, but sadly real life takes most of my time. On the other hand, that will make this game last longer which is also good.

Everyone should start with M&M1 instead of M&M3 or M&M6. The graphics are old, but the gameplay so far has been excellent. I also checked the NES version, and I still prefer the PC version. Something about the NES version seems a bit off in my opinion.

 

[octavius]

Been a while since I played MM1, but I think the only protection against insta-kill spells is being higher level. So I think you need to either try exploring a different and easier area, or just accept that some of your party dies and then resurrect them. If your cleric is not high enough level to resurrect that's another indicator that you may want to explore an easier area first.

 

[Abelian]

Also, I'm wondering. What's the max level in M&M1 PC?

Welcome to the RPG Codex!

The short answer is 200.

Long Version

The long answer is that the game technically supports levels up to 255 and it is indeed possible to set the levels up to and including 255 through the use of hex editing, but there's no real value to doing so since you don't get more HP (you only get HP at level up when a trainer does it).

It is also possible to set the character level to 0, but the game treats is as level 202 and the trainers say "Training for level 203. No way!", so this means that it is impossible to raise the character's level to 1.

Knights, Robbers and Clerics need 28,842,000 experience points and 582,075 gold to reach level 200. Paladins, Archers and Sorcerers need 38,456,000 experience points and 776,865 gold to reach level 200.

The experience counter will continue to increase until 2,147,483,647 which is 2^31 - 1, but for numbers larger than 999,999,999 the last digit will be truncated since it doesn't fit on the screen.

Experience in excess of 2,147,483,647 will be displayed as 0, but the game will keep incrementing up 4,294,967,295 which is 2^32 - 1 (nearly double the 2,147,483,647 value). Values beyond 4,294,967,295 will overflow and go back to 0.

Thank you for asking the question, since it prompted me to test and update my Might & Magic 1 Trainer to version 1.03. Previously, values larger than 2^31 - 1 overflowed.

 

[Sceptic]

I have just started playing the M&M series from the beginning. I played quite a bit of Clouds of Xeen when I was a kid, but I always prefer to start from the very first game so that I can understand the story as it was planned.

If you're playing M&M for the story you're doing something wrong. That said, MM1 is definitely worth playing, and there is a special satisfaction when reaching the end of MM5 that you will not get without playing through all 5 games.

I'm at level 9 and I'm finding several encounters that seem way too difficult for my party. I'm having trouble for the most part with high level spellcasters like Succubus Queen, Greater Demons (Portsmith) and Vampires (Dusk).

These are all pretty powerful enemies. IIRC a lot of them can also be avoided. Example, one of the quests asks you to find the secret of Portsmith, which involves meeting the Queen; you don't have to win the encounter, or do anything in the encounter other than run away, to complete the quest. Keep doing what quests you can do, and come back to the tougher encounters later. Dusk can be tough due to vampires, but there should be a couple of spells that do wonders against undead.

Also, I'm wondering. What's the max level in M&M1 PC?

Abelian already gave a magnificently detailed answer, and made me realise I didn't actually know the answer even though I thought I did

I'm really enjoying Might & Magic 1 so far even though I still prefer the Ultima series. It's been a long time since I have had so much fun exploring and mapping on a RPG.

M&M is awesome and the first game is great. In some ways I find that, out of the entire series, it has the most rewarding exploration due to the sheer number of different things you can find and the immense satisfaction you get when you find some of the better hidden or protected ones.

Everyone should start with M&M1 instead of M&M3 or M&M6. The graphics are old, but the gameplay so far has been excellent.

I also checked the NES version, and I still prefer the PC version. Something about the NES version seems a bit off in my opinion.

The NES version is better balanced and XP rewards are more reasonable, but I too prefer the PC version.

 

[Natreg]

Thank you for the quick replies.

If you're playing M&M for the story you're doing something wrong. That said, MM1 is definitely worth playing, and there is a special satisfaction when reaching the end of MM5 that you will not get without playing through all 5 games.

Well, I'm quite sure there is an overall story even if it's not a complex one. And even though this game doens't seem to have much story at all, I'm sure it's referenced either in future games or manuals.

These are all pretty powerful enemies. IIRC a lot of them can also be avoided. Example, one of the quests asks you to find the secret of Portsmith, which involves meeting the Queen; you don't have to win the encounter, or do anything in the encounter other than run away, to complete the quest. Keep doing what quests you can do, and come back to the tougher encounters later. Dusk can be tough due to vampires, but there should be a couple of spells that do wonders against undead.

Been a while since I played MM1, but I think the only protection against insta-kill spells is being higher level. So I think you need to either try exploring a different and easier area, or just accept that some of your party dies and then resurrect them. If your cleric is not high enough level to resurrect that's another indicator that you may want to explore an easier area first.

I wasn't expecting to do much grinding since I was advancing in levels quickly. Seems when I'm finished exploring the surface of Varn, I'll probably need to level up if I want to be able to do certain encounters.

Abelian already gave a magnificently detailed answer, and made me realise I didn't actually know the answer even though I thought I did

Also, I'm wondering. What's the max level in M&M1 PC?

Welcome to the RPG Codex!

The short answer is 200.

Thank you for asking the question, since it prompted me to test and update my Might & Magic 1 Trainer to version 1.03. Previously, values larger than 2^31 - 1 overflowed.

I knew might and magic games had very high level caps, but 200 seems like way too much. Hopefully I won't need to reach that kind of level in order to finish the game. It looks that it can become really tedious.

M&M is awesome and the first game is great. In some ways I find that, out of the entire series, it has the most rewarding exploration due to the sheer number of different things you can find and the immense satisfaction you get when you find some of the better hidden or protected ones.[\quote]
Exploration is indeed quite fun. When I was a kid I did not like games were I had to do any kind of mapping. As I grew older I started to like mapping more, and Might and Magic 1 really rewards you for exploring everything. Every map so far has interesting things to find and do. Also the game is more casual than Wizardry with it's permadeath... And even if I find a difficlt encounter I could always use Time Distortion to flee from it.

The NES version is better balanced and XP rewards are more reasonable, but I too prefer the PC version.

If the difficulty is changed I'm not interested in it. What I would like though would be a patch that adds the music to M&M1 and M&M2. Ultima had those kinds of patches developed by fans for Ultima 3 to 5.

 

[Luzur]

I knew might and magic games had very high level caps, but 200 seems like way too much. Hopefully I won't need to reach that kind of level in order to finish the game. It looks that it can become really tedious.

Nah, you dont have too go that high to finish it, i was around level 40-50 on my end-runs back in the day.

 

[Sceptic]

I wasn't expecting to do much grinding since I was advancing in levels quickly. Seems when I'm finished exploring the surface of Varn, I'll probably need to level up if I want to be able to do certain encounters.

Yes, but you don't actually need to do most of these encounters. The toughest fights (the demon and dragon conferences) are completely optional and IIRC the game in no way recognises that you've done them.

I knew might and magic games had very high level caps, but 200 seems like way too much. Hopefully I won't need to reach that kind of level in order to finish the game. It looks that it can become really tedious.

You don't even need to be close. As Luzur said 40-50 is enough to beat every optional encounter, 20-30 is probably more than enough to complete the game itself, I think that's the range I usually end up in. I really don't recommend grinding so high.

Exploration is indeed quite fun. When I was a kid I did not like games were I had to do any kind of mapping. As I grew older I started to like mapping more, and Might and Magic 1 really rewards you for exploring everything. Every map so far has interesting things to find and do. Also the game is more casual than Wizardry with it's permadeath... And even if I find a difficlt encounter I could always use Time Distortion to flee from it.

Agree with everything.

What I would like though would be a patch that adds the music to M&M1 and M&M2. Ultima had those kinds of patches developed by fans for Ultima 3 to 5.

You have to remember that U3-5 were developed on the Apple II and then ported to PC. The Apple could do music with the Mockingboard, while the PC could not. The patches reintroduced something present in the original that was lost in translation. MM1-2 were developed on Apple II with no music, the PC conversion is I think 100% faithful, and later they were ported to (S)NES and music was added there. It may be why no one was ever interested in converting the music back to the PC.

 

[Natreg]

Yes, but you don't actually need to do most of these encounters. The toughest fights (the demon and dragon conferences) are completely optional and IIRC the game in no way recognises that you've done them.

Well, maybe the game doesn't recognise it, but my notebook does When I play an RPG I really like to complete everything. Even now, if I die while mapping, I need to get back to the place I die so I can "map" it again. And for tougher encounters I take notes that I have to return to that particular place when my characters get highter levels.

You don't even need to be close. As Luzur said 40-50 is enough to beat every optional encounter, 20-30 is probably more than enough to complete the game itself, I think that's the range I usually end up in. I really don't recommend grinding so high.

Then I guess I'll need at least level 40 in order to do everything. I usually like to get the highest level in the game, but in this case I don't think that's a good idea. I'll keep exploring all the outdoors areas that I have left and try to get a few more levels that way. If that's not enough, I suppose I'll had to grind a bit. The Wyverns at Wyverns peak seem to give a good quantity of experience, and they are not difficult.

 

[Sceptic]

If that's not enough, I suppose I'll had to grind a bit. The Wyverns at Wyverns peak seem to give a good quantity of experience, and they are not difficult.

Once you have Holy Word there is a spot with vampires in Dusk that is excellent for quick XP farming. There are also the golems that spawn if you try to steal in one of the cities (forgot which one), once you're powerful enough to defeat them farming these is a good way to gain levels. I'd postpone until after you've explored everything though.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way about doing all encounters in MM2 once you see the Devil Kings

 

[Abelian]

Then I guess I'll need at least level 40 in order to do everything. I usually like to get the highest level in the game, but in this case I don't think that's a good idea.

One thing I forgot to note is that after characters reach age 80 (level 62), there is a change they will die from old age while resting. Aging can be counteracted by the rejuvenate spell (or the trainer in my signature ).

Speaking of which, I just realized I forgot to set the number of charges for consumable items (they all say "no charges left" when I attempt to use them). I'll fix it up when I have the time and inclination.

 

[Natreg]

If that's not enough, I suppose I'll had to grind a bit. The Wyverns at Wyverns peak seem to give a good quantity of experience, and they are not difficult.

Once you have Holy Word there is a spot with vampires in Dusk that is excellent for quick XP farming. There are also the golems that spawn if you try to steal in one of the cities (forgot which one), once you're powerful enough to defeat them farming these is a good way to gain levels. I'd postpone until after you've explored everything though.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way about doing all encounters in MM2 once you see the Devil Kings

Yes, I found both the Vampires in Dusk and the Diamond Golems at Erliquin. I intended to do both this encounters, and now that you mention it I wonder if I can defeat those golems already.

Well, I always want to do everything there is to do in a game, so even if I have to grind in order to defeat those Devil Kings, I probably will.

Then I guess I'll need at least level 40 in order to do everything. I usually like to get the highest level in the game, but in this case I don't think that's a good idea.

One thing I forgot to note is that after characters reach age 80 (level 62), there is a change they will die from old age while resting. Aging can be counteracted by the rejuvenate spell (or the trainer in my signature ).

Speaking of which, I just realized I forgot to set the number of charges for consumable items (they all say "no charges left" when I attempt to use them). I'll fix it up when I have the time and inclination.

Thanks for the info. I knew that you could die from old age in the game, but wasn't sure at which age it was. My characters are 28 or 29 years old except for my fighter who was Erradicated in a fight and got 10 more years than the others.

I'll probably use your trainer after I finish the game to see what's like to be at level 200. I really don't like cheating before finishing a game.

 

[TigerKnee]

So I got a question for M&M 2

I'm seeing clues in the game that goes like this:
"Meal B - then A2 14, 10"

How the hell am I supposed to interpret the 2nd part? They look like map coordinates code but I have absolutely no idea how the world is supposed to be divided up in a way to read the clues as such.

 

[Alchemist]

So I got a question for M&M 2

I'm seeing clues in the game that goes like this:
"Meal B - then A2 14, 10"

How the hell am I supposed to interpret the 2nd part? They look like map coordinates code but I have absolutely no idea how the world is supposed to be divided up in a way to read the clues as such.

Did you try looking at the included world map that comes with the game? The coordinates are set up like that - letters across the top, numbers down the side. A2 narrows it down to a particular area and then use the other coordinates within that area.

 

[TigerKnee]

Did you try looking at the included world map that comes with the game? The coordinates are set up like that - letters across the top, numbers down the side. A2 narrows it down to a particular area and then use the other coordinates within that area.

I didn't! Ok that makes a lot more sense now... as soon as I find out where I saved GOG's feelies...

 

[octavius]

RTF Map.

 

[Dorateen]

Not only were the early Might & Magic maps aesthetically pleasing and incredibly evocative, but also incorprated right into the gameplay content.

 

[Luzur]

Not only were the early Might & Magic maps aesthetically pleasing and incredibly evocative, but also incorprated right into the gameplay content.

they where ingame maps you could hold in your hand with added eye pleasantries.

 

[aleph]

they where ingame maps ... just not in the game.

fixed...

 

[Luzur]

they where ingame maps ... just not in the game.

fixed...

my quote had kinda the same point?

 

[aleph]

Btw, are there any Might&Magic clones or heavily M&M inspired games which are worth playing?

my quote had kinda the same point?

yes it did, didn't it?

 

[Scroo]

Btw, are there any Might&Magic clones or heavily M&M inspired games which are worth playing?

Well there's Swords and Sorcery - Underworld, which is pretty good. It's heavily influenced by the older M&M games.

Unfortunately the website, http://www.olderbytes.com/, seems to be down.

Summoning Charles-cgr

 

[Redlands]

Btw, are there any Might&Magic clones or heavily M&M inspired games which are worth playing?

Well there's Swords and Sorcery - Underworld, which is pretty good. It's heavily influenced by the older M&M games.

Unfortunately the website, http://www.olderbytes.com/, seems to be down.

Summoning Charles-cgr

I was just about to post this, I had a lot of fun with this. Though there's a bug in it that's prevented me from finishing it, so just be aware of that. (Though apparently a patch might come along with the sequel that he's working on.)

 

[aleph]

Scrooge Redlands , thanks, I had completely forgotten about Sword and Sorcery. I'll probably play it as soon as I am able to get over its art style