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Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

What is the best Might & Magic game in the series?

  • Might and Magic: Book I

    Votes: 17 2.3%
  • Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World

    Votes: 29 3.9%
  • Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra

    Votes: 59 8.0%
  • Might and Magic: World of Xeen

    Votes: 182 24.6%
  • Might and Magic: Swords of Xeen

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven

    Votes: 210 28.4%
  • Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor

    Votes: 129 17.4%
  • Might and Magic VIII: Day of the Destroyer

    Votes: 26 3.5%
  • Might and Magic IX

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Might and Magic X

    Votes: 73 9.9%

  • Total voters
    740

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
The only way for the bows to stay relevant is to have at least 2 (better 3) archers in the party. That's in the 7 - in 6, nothing can save them. Otherwise, they become obsolete somewhere in the early midgame. And, truth to be told, unless you're playing as a melee party (with very little casters), even in the early game they lose to the combat magic sheer damage potential (that is, if you play like a smart boy and use spell master + mystic combo).
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Hey, since all the M&M people seem to be gathered here...

I keep hearing some people espouse that M&M2 has the best "tactical combat" of the series.

Is it still worth playing over any others in the series for that reason alone?
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,037
Location
Platypus Planet
Hey, since all the M&M people seem to be gathered here...

I keep hearing some people espouse that M&M2 has the best "tactical combat" of the series.

Is it still worth playing over any others in the series for that reason alone?

Since there are other games that do tactical combat just as well and better I'd say it's not really worth it unless you are really curious. The adventure aspect of the later games is much stronger and better imo, so I suggest people to get into these games for that reason.
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Hey, since all the M&M people seem to be gathered here...

I keep hearing some people espouse that M&M2 has the best "tactical combat" of the series.

Is it still worth playing over any others in the series for that reason alone?
Here's a description of combat in MM 1-2 to see whether you would like it.

You have a party of 6 chars, which you can import from MM1 to MM2. The classes are Knight, Paladin, Archer, Robber, Cleric and Sorcerer. The Paladin can learn some Cleric spells and the Archer can learn some Sorcerer spells.

In battle, chars 1 and 2 are in the front row and can always use melee weapons (note: by char 1 and 2, I mean the slots, not the classes listed above, even though it's a personally reasonable party configuration). The other chars generally use ranged weapons or spells. Chars 3 and 4 are the second row and can use melee weapons when flanked, ex. in a 2x2 room, but I don't think it happens in corridors (I may be wrong about thus). Chars 5 and 6 are the safest, but the can still be hit/affected by ranged attacks or spells. Note that chars 5 and 6 can also be flanked or even have the entire party surrounded.

Combat is turn-based, with the combat order determined by the speed attribute. You can select the target of each character's attack. Melee or ranged attacks have a chance of missing and spells can be resisted (this applies to all combatants). Characters engaged in melee cannot use ranged attacks, except for the Archer. You can attempt to retreat during combat, but there is a relatively high chance of it failing, so you end up receiving another hit. Try enough times, and the entire party will retreat to another spot in the dungeon.

If a character on the front line dies or is asleep/paralyzed/unconscious, then enemies can use their turn to advance and engage another character in melee.

Here is a diagram of the party layout, where characters 1, 2 and 4 are in melee combat (marked by +).

1+ 2+
3 4+
5 6
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Here's a description of combat in MM 1-2 to see whether you would like it.
Anything interesting on the spellcasting side of things?
MM1 has 94 spells divided in 7 levels, MM2 has 96 spells divided in 9 levels. Not all spells from MM1 are included in MM2, but many are. In both games half of the spells are Cleric spells, and half are Sorcerer spells. The Cleric spells are generally protection-based, healing, buffs, dispels, turn undead, but also some damage-based ones. The Sorcerer spells are more combat/damage oriented, but also include protection spells, fly, teleport.

Spell-casting is mana-based and some of the spells also cost gems. Some of the spells increase in power and mana cost per level of the caster.

There are both combat spells and exploration/adventure spells, such as a light spell, teleport, create food, water walk, etc. You gain a spell level once every two character levels.

In MM1, you can cast all spells when you advance to a new spell level. In MM2, you get some of the spells in the new level, but have to buy the rest.

Edit: I forgot to mention that both games are played entirely by keyboard. Ex. your characters are 1-6, enemies are letters, give item in slot B to character C, you cast spells by entering spell level, then spell number.
 
Last edited:

Morphi

Augur
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
128
Which version of MM1/MM2 would you recommend to play(Interface/graphic/sound/etc)? (PC,NES,Genesis,SuperNES,C64) :)
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,401
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
Which version of MM1/MM2 would you recommend to play(Interface/graphic/sound/etc)? (PC,NES,Genesis,SuperNES,C64) :)
The DOS version. In my experience the M&M console ports are clunky and not very good. But you should post about it the M&M Discussion thread. ;)
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Which version of MM1/MM2 would you recommend to play(Interface/graphic/sound/etc)? (PC,NES,Genesis,SuperNES,C64) :)
I haven't played anything other than the PC version, so I wouldn't be able to recommend the others.

I've watched youtube videos of the MM1 NES version and although the graphics are better and there are more sound effects, you can't create your own characters (just the "player character") and the controls are clumsy (it takes more steps to perform actions due to the limitations of the NES controller, even in an emulator).

The PC version has the advantage that you can import characters from MM1 to MM2 and that you can use my MM1 trainer. I'll get around to writing a proper MM2 trainer later.

Plus, you can buy the MM 1-6 pack at GOG.com ($9.99 or wait for a 50%-75% sale). It includes manuals, clue books, and reference cards. If you do, you can use the GOG.com link at the top of the page.

Here are screenshots of the various versions (there were a lot!); just scroll to the bottom of the linked page. The GOG.com version is the IBM-PC one. As you can see, the NES and PC-Engine are the best-looking. The PC-Engine version also includes an auto-map, but is only available in Japanese.

Infinitron, Broseph is right. Could you please move the MM 1-2 discussion posts, starting with TigerKnee's post on page 206, to the M&M Discussion Thread?
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,226
Location
Bjørgvin
Hey, since all the M&M people seem to be gathered here...

I keep hearing some people espouse that M&M2 has the best "tactical combat" of the series.

Is it still worth playing over any others in the series for that reason alone?

Since there are other games that do tactical combat just as well and better I'd say it's not really worth it unless you are really curious. The adventure aspect of the later games is much stronger and better imo, so I suggest people to get into these games for that reason.

How do you define "adventure aspect"?
Sure, there are CRPGs that have better tactical combat than MM2, but not that many. Gold Box games for sure, but no blobbers except possibly Wiz 8.
But the GB games are more predictable. What I really like about MM2 is the randomness of items and enemies. You never know what you'll face next and no two combats will be the same (unless it's those rare scripted encounters in some of the dungeoms), and you never know what loot you'll find next. The sheer number of possible items is probably the largest before Diablo 2, with lots of different prefixes to items and suffixes that go from +1 to +32 (or +64), and items of +8 or better are even alignment restricted. So if you refrain from grinding those Cuisinarts but play normally, your characters can always face new enemies and get better loot, which is very different from for example Wiz 7. The enemies also have a very wide range of abilities, making them more diverse than most enemies from other CRPGs.

Also compare with MM3-5 which has simplistic combat and where you know that once you get Obsidian weapons you won't find anything better.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,037
Location
Platypus Planet
I think adventure is kinda easy to define? Huge, open world to explore. Tons of things to find and do. Many dungeons are usually optional so if you just stick with the main quest you won't see even half of the content. Sure, you'll travel around the world, but unless you take your time talking to everyone, getting and doing quests and exploring everything you find you are going to miss out. In MM3-5 figuring out what exactly is your quest and what you have to do is also a quest in its self each time you get into a new town. People don't usually rush to tell you what their problem is and how you need to fix it, you need to go around talking to people and figure this shit out yourself.

And I don't really understand how you are defining combat depth with. I was thinking of mechanics, but from what you say it seems like for you loot whoring = combat? MM3-5 has simpler combat, but it certainly is not because Obsidian weapons are the best items you can get. A bazillion similar weapons all with slightly better stats isn't interesting. Diablo 2 has a fuckton of items, but only a handful of them are of actual interest and value.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,226
Location
Bjørgvin
I think adventure is kinda easy to define? Huge, open world to explore. Tons of things to find and do. Many dungeons are usually optional so if you just stick with the main quest you won't see even half of the content. Sure, you'll travel around the world, but unless you take your time talking to everyone, getting and doing quests and exploring everything you find you are going to miss out. In MM3-5 figuring out what exactly is your quest and what you have to do is also a quest in its self each time you get into a new town. People don't usually rush to tell you what their problem is and how you need to fix it, you need to go around talking to people and figure this shit out yourself.

How is that different from MM2?

And I don't really understand how you are defining combat depth with. I was thinking of mechanics, but from what you say it seems like for you loot whoring = combat? MM3-5 has simpler combat, but it certainly is not because Obsidian weapons are the best items you can get.

Maybe I should have made it clear that the combat and the loot whoring are the two things that I think MM2 does very well.

A bazillion similar weapons all with slightly better stats isn't interesting. Diablo 2 has a fuckton of items, but only a handful of them are of actual interest and value.

The point is that you can always find better equipment since the enemies are random, and what they drop is random (though scaled).

And another point is that MM3-5 has both more simplistic combat (could as well have been real time), and the loot whoring is not quite as good since you find Obsidian equipment much earlier, so halfway through the game the loot stops being interesting, while in MM2 you can, if you are unlucky and don't grind, go through the whole game only finding a couple of items better than +24 (but maybe the next chest will have something better).
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,037
Location
Platypus Planet
It's not much different from MM2. It's just that MM2 is a lot more primitive in many aspects. My whole point was that unless you are a combatfag who has already played everything and wants to try MM2 out of curiosity, I suggest players who want to get into the series start with MM3-5 or MM6-8.

And I don't want to argue with you about items in MM2 vs MM3-5 since I don't think they are very interesting in those games either. MM6 is where they started to get good itemization IMO.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,498
Location
Swedish Empire
new updates from the Echo of Destruction (MM8 mod) team:


orzie said:
A new flow of updates!

First and foremost, the process of editing the Might and Magic 6-8 main adventure maps is being simplified. The universal map editor from GrayFace is coming soon.

GVq_hUo2E9g.jpg
4WuVFI2uaSE.jpg




Also, some new neat updates can be checked out on our new YouTube Channel.


The concepts of the new locations and new dungeon maps are being worked on as well.
Eor5kGj.png
jA5MBGv.png
 

bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
I went with identify on one of my characters when I made the party in M&M VI but after a few hours I'm having doubts about this. I played a bit of M&M X and the identifying shit at the vendor was costing me a fortune but here it feels less important.
 

Spaceman Spiff

Educated
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
33
I went with identify on one of my characters when I made the party in M&M VI but after a few hours I'm having doubts about this. I played a bit of M&M X and the identifying shit at the vendor was costing me a fortune but here it feels less important.
Starting skills don't really matter, you can purchase every appropriate skill at training centers. The point investment isn't that important either, Master identify (rank 7 or 8?) is a few levels and a bit of gold. Either that or fill an NPC slot with someone with unlimited identify.
I trained all my characters in repair just to save a few mouse clicks every time something broke. Might and Magic VI is beatable with a lot of party configurations.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,846
I really hope that the editor for M&M VIII will be good, I have some fixation with game editors and really want to make more slaughterhouses dungeons that could be better than 7-8 one.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
I went with identify on one of my characters when I made the party in M&M VI but after a few hours I'm having doubts about this. I played a bit of M&M X and the identifying shit at the vendor was costing me a fortune but here it feels less important.
One of the NPCs that you can find early on in MM6 gives you identify for all AND a 5% bonus to XP gained, so there's better use of the skill points. And Identify in shops isn't anywhere as expensive as in MMX (though items will sell for less than identification, so you'll still lose a ton of money by doing it this way)
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,457
So, 6 & 7. Do follower bonuses stack if they are of the same type? Say, two teachers?
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
So, 6 & 7. Do follower bonuses stack if they are of the same type? Say, two teachers?

If they are exactly the same type of follower - no. 2x teachers don't work. However, if they are different tiers of similar effect (i.e., teacher + instructor), they do stack.
 

Minttunator

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
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Location
Estonia
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I think the same hirelings don't stack, at least the experience ones (i.e. two teachers don't stack) but different hirelings do, even if they provide the same type of bonus. I distinctly recall playing either 6 or 7 with a teacher+instructor (giving a 10%+15% experience bonus).

Scholar might be a better choice than teacher, though - not having to master Identify saves you several levels worth of skill points (and you can identify everything conveniently from the get-go).

Edit: damn, the good Pope was faster. :P
 

catfood

AGAIN
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
9,345
Location
Nirvana for mice
Regarding MM7:

Does anyone know any patch or mod that changes the AI in such a way that it doesn't always attack the same character? They only attack my 3rd character (the cleric) and it's getting extremely annoying.
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,401
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
Regarding MM7:

Does anyone know any patch or mod that changes the AI in such a way that it doesn't always attack the same character? They only attack my 3rd character (the cleric) and it's getting extremely annoying.
There's no patch or mod for it that I'm aware of. It's because certain enemies have racial prejudices, for example goblins only target dwarves.
 

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