Thank you, finally we have reached the status of discussion!
Oh btw. I hope derailing this yearly BG thread is not too lawful evil...
I know what it is supposed to display, you continue to think I am some kind of idiot. Well, I am not.
The problem with that system is that it should be completely unnecessary. Instead of of increasing the time for a level up, why not just make the level ups equal in XP, but reduce what you gain from them?
Just like it is in 3.5. The result is the same. Plus, that way, nobody needs to be distracted by yet another class-specific table and nobody needs to be annoyed because of how much less he can improve his character than other players.
The underlying and far more important problem of all that is not one specific to AD&D, the problem is that level-based systems just make no sense. You do not kill 100 goblins, and suddenly turn stronger. Getting better is a process and every single level based system fails to display that in a good way. Point-based systems like TDE or SR where the XP-equivalent is a resource to spend will always have the upper hand as they can represent a fluent progress in contrast to an artificially fragmented one. So, yeah, this is more of a general D&D problem, or that of any level-based system.
3.5 progression system is complete shit, you even bringing it up is retarded on its own right. Distracted by a class especific table? If they can breathe and walk at the same time im pretty sure they can manage looking for a specific table when they level up.
I sort of agree, level based systems dont make sense, but make progress easily manageable for most players, so they are not without their upsides.
Vancian magic is supposed to display the necessary preparation some magic users need to do to cast their magic. It present wizards more as ritualists than people who can bend reality at will. I don't like that theory of magic, but that is just my preference. The system itself is fine.
The problem is that this is not how it works at all in D&D. It tries, but it fails when you think about it. You need to rest for 8 hours to do... everything. During 8 hours sleep, a warrior heals his wounds. Okay.
During 8 hours sleep, a mage heals his wounds. But wait, he also needs to prepare his spells. So.. what... does he do that in his sleep? Remarkably, but I guess not. Instead, the mage will spend some time with his books and formulas. But then, he will only have 5 hours or so of sleep. How does he manage to heal as fast as the warrior that way? Do mages just need less sleep? That would be fine, if you could split both activities, preparing and sleeping. So any mage should be able to just take 2-3 hours hours to prepare his spells. And should only need 5 hours to heal. But that is not possible in D&D. You can try to find all sorts of excuses for why it is like that, or use house-rules, but they will all be very far-fetched and not able to disguise that D&D pre 4.0 fails to implement a magic system that makes sense in its own world. Which is btw the only thing better in 4.0.
So you concern is a simulationist one? Fuck off man. Also, there is no need to house rule, how much time it takes to heal, how much you heal in an hour, a night, a day, a week, etc. Is explained on the manual, a high level warrior needs to spend months in a bed to heal naturally.
Also, times for memorizing every single spells are listed, and at high level a mage would need well over 8 hours to memorize it all, you are free to reinforce this rule if you feel like it, it wasnt an oversight on their part.
A character with not much constitution has as many HP as three rats. Three. Rats. A human being. Hello-ho? There is abstraction, and there is... this mess.
Again, I know what it is supposed to display. Every HP-based system has serious problems as there is more to one's health status than the taken damage. TDE also has that problem, btw. but makes up for it by having actual illnesses, etc. But this one just takes the crown of nonsense, at least at low levels. I fail to see how anyone can look at early level HP stats in D&D and keep a straight face.
If it does not fall apart for you when you think about it, then I will not be able to ever convince you here, so let's just stop that point.
Here is your 1hp low constitution human. Also theres nitpicking and then theres what you are doing, no system ever has been designed to emulate reality accurately and if rats having an unrealistically high amount of hp makes the system a mess then im really not not sure what to tell you, a facepalm would be a much more fitting.
We agree here. That part does work very well in D&D, but any edition up to 3.5 IMO. This is what 4.0 broke utterly by making every class essentially the same.
But the freedom part is just wrong. You have far more possibilities and diversity in character creation and development in 3.5. AD&D gives you fixed abilities at level-up, kits just give more paths with fixed gained abilities. In 3.0+ you can decide what traits, etc. to take. That is a simple numbers game and AD&D just has less character development possibilities than 3.5.
Maybe, but i like the middle point between balance and freedom that AD&D strikes. The broken freedom of 3.5 that leaves half my team feeling like the mage is doing everything is kind of shit, as the saying goes "everyone knows you play 3.5 with a caster", its true and its utter shit.
And I can only repeat myself by saying that you are utterly wrong here. I can give you the reasoning behind every design decision in AD&D, and why they did it in that way, it is not hard to understand. I know what they tried to do. But they failed in many ways. And they realized that, hence 3.0 was born, and from it 3.5.
4.0 then came out of completely different reasons, and the result is.. well, you probably know it.
You can give me the reasoning behind every design choice? you are not even in the same state of mind as the gygax and the other people that helped mold it to what it was.
Also you realize that 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0 came to make them money, not because there was anything wrong with AD&D? Even if there is a lot of questionable shit it, none of that shit gets in the way of people having fun, and thats all that matters.
My point is that while they were trying to fix the system they broke the game.
