The Weekly/Yearly LOL Baldur's Gate sucks thread!

[Vault Dweller]

sea

I thought I specifically mentioned that PST will be forever on my top 10 list. In other words, I don't dismiss games on account of linearity, but I do consider it a flaw. Obviously, a linear game that tells of a hell of story or offers challenging tactical combat will always be interesting and worth playing and replaying.

As for BG, it had neither complexity nor reactivity, in my humble opinion. It was real pretty though.

 

[Lhynn]

Is explained on the manual, a high level warrior needs to spend months in a bed to heal naturally.

As opposed to low level one.

A boxer can take a lot more punches than your average joe, but he also needs to spend more time recovering from those punches the average joe never got hit with, because he was down for the count already, this level of abstraction is elemental DraQ. It stands to reason than the more you resist and take the more you have to recover from.

 

[sea]

sea

I thought I specifically mentioned that PST will be forever on my top 10 list. In other words, I don't dismiss games on account of linearity, but I do consider it a flaw. Obviously, a linear game that tells of a hell of story or offers challenging tactical combat will always be interesting and worth playing and replaying.

As for BG, it had neither complexity nor reactivity, in my humble opinion. It was real pretty though.

That's fair, and to clarify, the statement that I was objecting to was "nothing you do in linear games matters". That came across, to me, as a bit hyperbolic. The idea that "nothing you do matters" in a game with systems allowing for significant degrees of gameplay freedom did not sit right with me. I think maybe we have different requirements for what constitutes "mattering" in this case - it seems like you were speaking mostly with respect to explicit storytelling and scenarios available.

 

[Abelian]

Is explained on the manual, a high level warrior needs to spend months in a bed to heal naturally.

As opposed to low level one.

You can say the same thing regarding the spell point recovery in HoMM3

Spoiler

I'm not suggesting that makes it ok, just that a game can be enjoyable in spite of a couple apparently nonsensical mechanisms.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That's fair, and to clarify, the statement that I was objecting to was "nothing you do in linear games matters".

Story-wise. That was the context of the conversation which started with "I uncovered the plot...."

I think maybe we have different requirements for what constitutes "mattering" in this case - it seems like you were speaking mostly with respect to explicit storytelling and scenarios available.

Yes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In stark contrast, BG relies heavily on its roleplaying system for conflict resolution.

It had a role-playing system? Oh, you mean that if your fighter resolved conflicts with his sword and your wizard with his spells? Yeah, good times, good times.

I am just bringing up the distinction between a system to resolve conflicts, even if it is combat oriented, and resolving conflict by walking through the actions that a game designer planned out for the player like in an adventure game, even if you get to select between a few different options.

I agree, of course, that combat is an active aspect and non-combat (as a whole, even if you have some mini-games here and there) is a passive aspect. Thus, combat (if done well) will always be more interesting and engaging.

However, at some point RPG developers decided that clearing out dungeons wasn't enough and that the player should be told an emotionally engaging story full of twists and turns. I'm of the opinion that the player should be able to participate in this storytelling and role-play his character, not just fight his/her way to the next unlock point.

Would you say the Wizardry games don't have a role-playing system?

I would not since the system was much more robust than the streamlined DnD bastardization that Bioware cooked up for BG1.

Not to mention:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,414.0.html

 

[DraQ]

Gameplay mechanics and systems have choices and consequences ingrained within them to widely varying degrees. If a game has sufficiently complex mechanics and systems to engage with, that to me can be just as if not more compelling than a game being "non-linear". I think Baldur's Gate a good example of a game that has complexity and reactivity in how it plays, both in and out of combat.

I think you are wrong.
BG doesn't have much reactivity, mechanical or otherwise and a lot of its content is explicitly (and inexplicably) gated by your MQ progression (Cloak fucking wood).

I get what you mean about C&C stemming from systems, but the thing about BG is that you neither get to choose what you're going to do, nor do it your way.

An example of what you're talking about would be Morrowind, although it's held back by lack of lasting consequences and being prone to abuse.

A boxer can take a lot more punches than your average joe, but he also needs to spend more time recovering from those punches the average joe never got hit with, because he was down for the count already, this level of abstraction is elemental DraQ. It stands to reason than the more you resist and take the more you have to recover from.

How about no?

That one hit that may be all it takes to kill your lvl1 character isn't a disabling blow. It's a potentially killing blow. We are not talking about a wet behind ears noob lying wide-eyed and whimpering because some fuck scratched him across the chest with a sword leaving him bleeding profusely (at least compared to noob's previous experience with bleeding) and confident that slightest move will cause his entrails to spill out in pool of gory mess. We're talking about pile of dead meat.

Both lvl1 and lvl7 characters at 1HP need to recover from brink of death injuries. It makes no sense for higher level character to take more time to heal from the same kind of injuries than a low level one.
Less sense than what one could expect from a HP system.

 

[DraQ]

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,414.0.html

I don't really think merging keywords and trees inherently leads to problems as long as you observe guidelines regarding their use - always use keywords only where you'd make the maligned "I'd like to ask about something else" loop in your tree, never handle the same thing with both systems at once.
Of course there is nothing wrong with having a keyword query launch a tree of its own or (in case of constrained keyword system like in Morrowind) to have a tree allow to interrupt the flow of conversation and ask for keywords.

Trees are far better suited for simulating actual flow of conversation, keywords are far better at allowing player to obtain information at their own discretion - there is no reason not to mix them and get the best of both worlds, given how poorly do keywords perform at any kind of structured dialogue, and how awkward and laborious do dialogue trees get after adding just a bunch of simple queries.

 

[Lhynn]

How about no?

That one hit that may be all it takes to kill your lvl1 character isn't a disabling blow. It's a potentially killing blow. We are not talking about a wet behind ears noob lying wide-eyed and whimpering because some fuck scratched him across the chest with a sword leaving him bleeding profusely (at least compared to noob's previous experience with bleeding) and confident that slightest move will cause his entrails to spill out in pool of gory mess. We're talking about pile of dead meat.

Both lvl1 and lvl7 characters at 1HP need to recover from brink of death injuries. It makes no sense for higher level character to take more time to heal from the same kind of injuries than a low level one.
Less sense than what one could expect from a HP system.

First off optional bleeding to death optional mechanics help a lot with the abstraction, or optional bleeding mechanics should also help with that. Its not hard to make hp work in a more realistical way, its just much of a hassle and brings little to the table.

As for a reason to take longer to heal, im talking about a dude that takes one hit from a club to the guts and falls down helplessly to the floor and another that moves an inch back and takes it to the arm, and then proceeds to take 10 hits more everywhere in his body before falling down to a hit that he couldnt avoid or lessen, his body covered in bruises as his conciousness drifts away. both of them are rescued by a passing monk and attended at a temple. Both of them should recover their conciousness at roughly the same time, but the one that took more before going down needs more time to heal his wounds.

There is nothing wrong with the HP system, and there is a reason systems that dont use it never catched on, its simply better all around, most of whats wrong with it is because of the shit judgment of the one enforcing it.

 

[Shadenuat]

I wish DraQ would just get a special boxed copy of Morrowind and stick his scaly dick in it already and remain that way forever orgasming, instead of running from thread to thread, defending Morrowind in one, and then shitting on some other game cause it doesn't have what Morrowind has.

It makes me want to mod the shit out of BG and Morrowind simultaneously and try and replay them again, meaning I won't get out of house this weekend again. And of course I'll drop out in Nashkel Mines after first bunch of kobolds, and in Ahnassi's house after I get her gold kanet again.

Hnh. Maybe I should try and mod Wiz8 for a change...

 

[Crooked Bee]

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,414.0.html

Wow, your thoughts on conversation systems... they're basically like my thoughts on conversation systems too, except better

 

[Vault Dweller]

You should, like, write your thoughts down sometimes and share them with other people.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Nah, I'm, like, not articulate enough for that. Your thoughts will suffice on this matter.

 

[flabbyjack]

What makes you think you can finish Baldur's Gate 2 now when you couldn't as a junior in highschool?!?

Source = http://video.adultswim.com/shorts/commencement-speech.html

 

[flabbyjack]

BG2 : Enhanced on sale on Steam for $6.24 (today only) Bah! I'll just wait for it on GoG

 

[Deleted member 7219]

BG2 : Enhanced on sale on Steam for $6.24 (today only) Bah! I'll just wait for it on GoG

Or get BG2 on GOG and apply all the high-res/fix packs and Trent Oster doesn't get a penny.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I wish DraQ would just get a special boxed copy of Morrowind and stick his scaly dick in it already and remain that way forever orgasming, instead of running from thread to thread, defending Morrowind in one, and then shitting on some other game cause it doesn't have what Morrowind has.

 

[flabbyjack]

Matt7895 what's wrong with Trent Oster?

 

[hoverdog]

Matt7895 what's wrong with Trent Oster?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Matt7895 what's wrong with Trent Oster?

1 get license to release classic game
2 apply a bunch of fan mods to it and claim to be "enhancing" it and fixing bugs
3 ignore your previous claim of fixing bugs and add a ton of bugs to the game that didn't exist before
4 add a mere handful of companions and levels to the game
5 release it on steam for a rather unfair price - seriously, $25 is more than what I paid for it 10+ years ago on sale
6 ??????
7 profit off of the drones who buy it

 

[Cadmus]

for fuck sake, I just started Baldur's Gate again, for the twentieth time and it seems I'll finally stick with it

I don't mind the horrible fucking UI, I understand it's probably the product of its time but the fucking pathfinding kills me. this is the worst fucking thing in the universe. I dont remember it being this motherfucking horrible in IWD1. Jesus fucking christ, I can't take any more of this shit. I hate that bunch of fucking retards who keep getting stuck in the fences, walls and each other. Every time I try to leave an indoor area they just bundle up together near the exit and keep bumping into each other and producing these fucking annoying leather-y sounds. Oh my fucking god I hate this so much. I'm getting a sick physical feeling from this, like a nausea or throwing up. It's making me insane. Jesus fuck which degenerate retarded cocksucker made this thing? I don't even like opening any containers anymore because it's just fucking impossible. How fucking retarded are the characters if they can't walk around the person next to them to open a chest. Fuck this shit fuck it I hate it. It's worse than the Holocaust. It's the worst thing ever. Fuck shit fuck.

 

[Athelas]

Pathfinding shouldn't be an issue in the wide open expanses that make up most of BG 1.

But it's fucked in a lot of the interiors, yes.

 

[Agesilaus]

I thought I specifically mentioned that PST will be forever on my top 10 list.

 

[Lhynn]

for fuck sake, I just started Baldur's Gate again, for the twentieth time and it seems I'll finally stick with it

I don't mind the horrible fucking UI, I understand it's probably the product of its time but the fucking pathfinding kills me. this is the worst fucking thing in the universe. I dont remember it being this motherfucking horrible in IWD1. Jesus fucking christ, I can't take any more of this shit. I hate that bunch of fucking retards who keep getting stuck in the fences, walls and each other. Every time I try to leave an indoor area they just bundle up together near the exit and keep bumping into each other and producing these fucking annoying leather-y sounds. Oh my fucking god I hate this so much. I'm getting a sick physical feeling from this, like a nausea or throwing up. It's making me insane. Jesus fuck which degenerate retarded cocksucker made this thing? I don't even like opening any containers anymore because it's just fucking impossible. How fucking retarded are the characters if they can't walk around the person next to them to open a chest. Fuck this shit fuck it I hate it. It's worse than the Holocaust. It's the worst thing ever. Fuck shit fuck.

Lol, you are a pussy, youll get used to it, and it surely cannot get worse than that....

Spoiler

 

[Sensuki]

Because BG1 was one of the first few games I played when I got my PC I got pretty used to making short waypoints for character movement.

The pathfinding isn't *that* bad, particularly if you get used to the couple of faults it has (such as the fact that it takes into account fog of war and you will struggle walking around U turn corners).