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The Witcher 1 Thread

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,624
Combat is a part of Rpgs, though.

I know, but I don't consider combat when judging how good an RPG is. That The Witcher's combat is shit doesn't mean the roleplaying mechanics aren't good.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
It has the worst of every worlds: long, repetitive, tedious combat; lots of enemies thrown at you; too much grinding.

ur doing it wrong

It's not a shining example of how to do aRPG combat perfectly but it's nowhere near that bad. It's like Dance Dance Revolution with swords. Just use the right attack for the right beastie and click when you hear that sh-sh sound, do a barrel roll when mobbed, and use a potion or oil if it gets seriously hairy. Won't take more than a couple of swishes to kill 'em.

(Okay there are a couple of brain-dead moments there, like that hellhound fight at the end of the first chapter where if you fuck it up you have to click through a big cutscene and dialog again, but eh.)
 

pippin

Guest
Combat is a part of Rpgs, though.

I know, but I don't consider combat when judging how good an RPG is. That The Witcher's combat is shit doesn't mean the roleplaying mechanics aren't good.

Stats, abilities and alchemy (which modifies stats) play a big role on combat. In the case of The Witcher, combat is part of what it makes it an rpg.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,624
Combat is a part of Rpgs, though.

I know, but I don't consider combat when judging how good an RPG is. That The Witcher's combat is shit doesn't mean the roleplaying mechanics aren't good.

Stats, abilities and alchemy (which modifies stats) play a big role on combat. In the case of The Witcher, combat is part of what it makes it an rpg.

It's true. The Alchemy system is cool, the abilities are awesome too. The problem is the combat itself, the repetitive nature of it. It's simple to fix the core issue of the combat and the rest of the systems (Alchemy, Abilities) will fall into place.
 

Grif

Learned
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
231
Combat is a part of Rpgs, though.

I know, but I don't consider combat when judging how good an RPG is. That The Witcher's combat is shit doesn't mean the roleplaying mechanics aren't good.

Stats, abilities and alchemy (which modifies stats) play a big role on combat. In the case of The Witcher, combat is part of what it makes it an rpg.

It's true. The Alchemy system is cool, the abilities are awesome too. The problem is the combat itself, the repetitive nature of it. It's simple to fix the core issue of the combat and the rest of the systems (Alchemy, Abilities) will fall into place.
I have to say the alchemy system in TW1 is really one of the best implementation of alchemy I have seen to date. (I have only really played the first one thus far.) I was disappointed to read that TW2 and TW3 featured drastically changed alchemy, with TW3 going so far as to remove the entire point of it.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
Personally, I would love a system where combat against humans and humanoids was more about swordplay and skill, and combat against monsters used a Witcher 1-like alchemy system, research, and so on.
 

Andkat

Educated
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
68
One of the best parts of the Witcher 1 was the relative paucity of loot and quantitative improvements to your equipment, unlike the typical RPG lootspew of W2 and W3. It felt more like a plausible-ish world than a typical RPG arcade spewing carrots of incrementally better gear at you every other quest (especially when in TW2 you're already supposed to be pretty geared up from the first game....yet Raven's Armor is worse than some random crap you can find in some swamp backwater).
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
1,951
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
Combat in W1 is not a total crap on highest difficulty - you need to use alchemy, tactics and all.

From the other side "mage" build is all about spamming igni.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
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Location
Not Europe
There are people who actually think Witcher 1 doesn't have crap combat?

Combat is a part of Rpgs, though.

I know, but I don't consider combat when judging how good an RPG is. That The Witcher's combat is shit doesn't mean the roleplaying mechanics aren't good.
I made a thread about this. Bad combat heavily implies bad gameplay which can result in a bad game.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
What I find to be the case with people who think Witcher 1 combat is not so bad (or even good in some cases) is that they are typically people averse to action combat. They do not like the idea of having to react quickly and in real time to what's going on, and for these people, W1's combat is actually a sort of a compromise between real time action-y combat and the more tactical/turn-based combat they prefer. It gives them some of the thrill of action combat but without the challenge and actual skill required. Conversely, people like me, who actually enjoy good action combat, hate W1's combat with a passion, since there is no skill or challenge involved.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
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Dec 22, 2015
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Location
Not Europe
What I find to be the case with people who think Witcher 1 combat is not so bad (or even good in some cases) is that they are typically people averse to action combat. They do not like the idea of having to react quickly and in real time to what's going on, and for these people, W1's combat is actually a sort of a compromise between real time action-y combat and the more tactical/turn-based combat they prefer. It gives them some of the thrill of action combat but without the challenge and actual skill required. Conversely, people like me, who actually enjoy good action combat, hate W1's combat with a passion, since there is no skill or challenge involved.
It's pretty shitty combat and only codexians would defend something that is this bad. For some reason, codex users are averse to action and twitch games. For fucks sake, you pretty much stand there and click whenever the cursor turns yellow. That's all you need to do in this game.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Feb 6, 2016
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I made a thread about this. Bad combat heavily implies bad gameplay which can result in a bad game.

It's what I call "Arcanum Syndrome". The game is an excellent RPG based on the time I played, but it has terrible combat, which is no way makes it a bad roleplaying experience. Only a bad game. Hence my infamous "Arcanum is the worst game I ever played, emphasis on game and not RPG".

The Witcher has shit combat, and I feel sorry for anyone who thinks otherwise.
 

Carrion

Arcane
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Lost in Necropolis
TW1's combat is more about the strategic element than the tactical one, things like proper preparation and toxicity management rather than just slowly clicking everything to death one fight at a time. The hardest difficulty level is pretty much mandatory in this regard, even though high-level Igni does break it near the endgame, and Aard kind of breaks it in the early parts of the game. The combat is nothing spectacular, but it generally gets the job done and works well in tandem with the other systems in the game (most importantly alchemy, of course). It's nowhere near as bad as the combat in Arcanum, and for ARPG combat I find it generally serviceable, not particularly great but not among the worst of the bunch either. I also kind of disagree about the high amount of combat — sure, the swamps can be a trash mob hell, but outside of them there's actually not that much combat, and the fights are generally pretty short. There are points in the game where I've spent hours in Vizima without engaging in a single fight, and the combat areas are generally compact enough to not overstay their welcome.

I think going for action combat was a natural move in a series where you control a legendary swordsman, but the problem with the sequels was that they didn't do action combat very well and threw all logic out of the window. TW2's combat system was a horribly unbalanced mess despite their numerous attempts to fix it, and it also ruined the alchemy system that played such an integral role in TW1. TW3's combat had similar issues plus a ton of additional nonsense, like all sorts of broken abilities and practically unlimited potions that could be consumed instantly even mid-fight. As far as mechanics go, TW1 is by far the best game in the series.
 
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Self-Ejected

Ludo Lense

Self-Ejected
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
936
Almost every single element within the Witcher 1 was in service to the experience of being a Witcher hence they work in tandem to amplify the game even if some are weak.

Almost every single element in Witcher 2&3 was in service to make the game capitalize on current trends which says it all.
 

naossano

Cipher
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Aug 26, 2014
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Marseilles, France
Even on normal, it is become increasingly necessary to do more than just click. But a good bunch of the combat increasing *complexity* come more from preparation to the fight, than the fight themselves, by getting yourself and your gear accordingly buffed via your crafting skills.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,624
What's the consensus on the Rise of the White Wolf Enhanced Edition mod? I was planning on giving it a go on my second Witcher playthrough.
 

Old One

Arcane
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Jul 13, 2015
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3,679
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The Great Underground Empire
What's the consensus on the Rise of the White Wolf Enhanced Edition mod? I was planning on giving it a go on my second Witcher playthrough.
I tried it last time I played W1. Must have been a year ago or more, so I don't remember all the specifics of it, but I recall my overall impression was positive. I can confirm I played the game from start to finish without hitting any major technical problems, at least. Since you've already played the game once, it's worth a try.
 

naossano

Cipher
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Aug 26, 2014
Messages
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Location
Marseilles, France
Didn't try it, but it seems mostly a graphic mod, and an increase of crafting ingredient quantity when you collect it (as if you weren"t already swiming with it). They mention combar changes, i didn't find which were those changes.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I was critical of The Witcher's combat when the game came out. The system felt awkward. Plus it wasn't logical for me that you basically NEVER hit agile enemies with strong attack and you deal no damage (1 HP) to tough enemies with fast attack. And there are no "middle-ground" characters which could be felled with either.
I was also critical of the character development system, which for me felt very redundant - same-y skill trees for 6 "combat styles", where you double up on strong, fast and group styles for both steel and silver swords (okay, so it's different fencing humanoids then having skirmishes with monsters, but still...).
Note I did love the world, atmosphere, town, NPCs, quests, itemization, books, alchemy and the game in general.

The sad thing is that now, after experiencing The Witcher 2 & 3 my conclusion is that even though those 2 systems were a bit clumsy in TW1, they are still the best in the series, by far.
The combat serves its purpose of tactically beating the challenges and making the best use of alchemy and character traits. And not a roll-fest like in TW2 or clumsy action combat like in TW3.
The character development system felt very impactfull at least. Combat preparation, studying enemies and their weaknesses was really a thing. In the first acts my main expense were.... alchemy and lore books. And the expense felt justified! Mutations were a great addition... once (and again C&C).
 

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