The Witcher 3 GOTY Edition

[Falksi]

Please tell me I'm being daft and have missed something here. I'm searching for the sunstone, have walked into a room with a load of mirrors, and solved the "puzzle" by simply walking round each mirror and pulling on it's lever. No thought required, no real incentive or trail of bread crumbs to follow, no mystery behind it. Have I missed something, or is this just another example of the games lack of roleplaying depth?

 

[Carrion]

There are pretty much no real puzzles in the game. Even the few ones that exist are usually spoiled by Geralt either giving hints or outright solving it for the player. The Sunstone puzzle could theoretically function like an actual puzzle, but the mirrors are set up in such a way that you'll probably solve it by "accident" before you can even put any real thoughtwork into it.

Then again, the CDPR games only really have two different varieties of puzzles: the "do these three or four things in the right order" puzzle, and the fireplace puzzle from TW2.

 

[Falksi]

Thanks Carrion. I thought I may have missed a letter, note or something designed to add some depth. Sigh, this damn game. It's pretty much a bloated Saints Row with less powers & more cutscenes + swords.

 

[thesoup]

is this just another example of the games lack of roleplaying depth?

Wat
What do puzzles have to do with roleplaying depth?

 

[Falksi]

Wat
What do puzzles have to do with roleplaying depth?

Just adds another layer to the game. Anything which creates intrigue or mystery etc. - something which provokes thought or an emotional response - is part of roleplaying.
They've a "puzzle" there which does nothing but churn out same the tiresome "kill bad guy, activate thingy" set of actions found all the way through the game. Add a bit of mystery or intrigue to that in the form of a letter, riddle, whatever and at least it becomes interesting instead of just another meaningless gimmick.

 

[Atomkilla]

Most of the intrigue, as you mention, comes from characters and letters lying around. It's usually done well, but Geralt commenting every single thing does remove that sense of mystery very often. You don't get to think through the meaning of that note covered in blood that you've just found, but hey, Geralt will tell you, since apparently, you're not role-playing a witcher and shouldn't do any thinking.
On some instances it's okay, but for the most part annoying.

 

[Falksi]

Most of the intrigue, as you mention, comes from characters and letters lying around. It's usually done well, but Geralt commenting every single thing does remove that sense of mystery very often. You don't get to think through the meaning of that note covered in blood that you've just found, but hey, Geralt will tell you, since apparently, you're not role-playing a witcher and shouldn't do any thinking.
On some instances it's okay, but for the most part annoying.

Yup. And I hate most uses of the Witchers senses. I can see why it would be great for tracking, but FFS let me be the one to find the lever which activates the door, or search the items/bodies required for the investigation etc. It's way too hand-holdy in that respect. Tracks & scents? Fine. But constantly doing the search for me by highlighting every object involved? It's COD-itus

 

[Atomkilla]

Yes, the game does tend to hold your hand a lot. I think object highlighting is optional though, but I can't recall.
Witcher sense should have been made for tracking and hearing animals in the distance and sensing magical auras, items etc. Highlighting every barrel, box and door was just annoying. It was one of the things from TW2 that I really hated and was hoping won't come back, but it had to be a lootfest after all.

 

[Gerrard]

What's the point of new game+? Is it at least harder?

There is no point. They added it because the retarded community asked.

 

[Quillon]

Well if you replay and if you made all the alchemy stuff etc in the previous run, you won't be grinding as much in ng+. And there are some different looks for some different witcher sets.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I've played W3 over 350 hours, and there were two things that were constantly annoying me, I don't understand why they were never fixed in a patch:
- Accidentally lighting/dousing candles and torches.
- Falling down the stairs

There are mods that fix both things, I know, but I'm not sure if they are compatible with the game and with each other right now.

I don't get people basically criticising the game because it has content. When a game is open world it is supposed to have distance between places of interest. I take my time, ride slowly, take in the atmosphere - when I'm in the mood. When not, I just use the signposts, but when I start getting too lazy for manual riding, I know I should stop playing for today. I don't like an open world that's like a theme parks like FO3 where I have to bump in the next cool thing every 2 minutes of walking.

 

[Alexios]

I'm on Blood and Wine after doing my second playthrough of the main story and doing a good amount of secondary quests/witcher contracts. Seems like my level is too low to do any quests in Blood and Wine though, even though it was suggested you be only at Level 34 to start the expansion. Not sure if I should keep going or do Hearts of Stone instead.

 

[Falksi]

I've played W3 over 350 hours, and there were two things that were constantly annoying me, I don't understand why they were never fixed in a patch:
- Accidentally lighting/dousing candles and torches.
- Falling down the stairs

There are mods that fix both things, I know, but I'm not sure if they are compatible with the game and with each other right now.

I don't get people basically criticising the game because it has content. When a game is open world it is supposed to have distance between places of interest. I take my time, ride slowly, take in the atmosphere - when I'm in the mood. When not, I just use the signposts, but when I start getting too lazy for manual riding, I know I should stop playing for today. I don't like an open world that's like a theme parks like FO3 where I have to bump in the next cool thing every 2 minutes of walking.

It's the lack of anything meaningful which makes things drag. All that filler is fine for folk who like watching DVD extras, & immersing themselves in lore etc. Those of us who just want to get to the meat of the game just get weighed down by it.
I much prefer things which I can interact with and which keep me engaged. For that to happen it has to feel like there's something meaningful behind a quest or interaction, and far too often in TW3 it doesn't.
I've just defeated Eredin, and boy the relief. Not in a "yay, Ciri is safe!" way, but in a "yay, it feels like it's Friday afternoon and all the past work & slog thro the week has ended!".
Hopefully the expansions fresh main quests may give me something to enjoy out this whole experience.

 

[Alexios]

I've played W3 over 350 hours, and there were two things that were constantly annoying me, I don't understand why they were never fixed in a patch:
- Accidentally lighting/dousing candles and torches.
- Falling down the stairs

There are mods that fix both things, I know, but I'm not sure if they are compatible with the game and with each other right now.

I don't get people basically criticising the game because it has content. When a game is open world it is supposed to have distance between places of interest. I take my time, ride slowly, take in the atmosphere - when I'm in the mood. When not, I just use the signposts, but when I start getting too lazy for manual riding, I know I should stop playing for today. I don't like an open world that's like a theme parks like FO3 where I have to bump in the next cool thing every 2 minutes of walking.

It's the lack of anything meaningful which makes things drag. All that filler is fine for folk who like watching DVD extras, & immersing themselves in lore etc. Those of us who just want to get to the meat of the game just get weighed down by it.
I much prefer things which I can interact with and which keep me engaged. For that to happen it has to feel like there's something meaningful behind a quest or interaction, and far too often in TW3 it doesn't.
I've just defeated Eredin, and boy the relief. Not in a "yay, Ciri is safe!" way, but in a "yay, it feels like it's Friday afternoon and all the past work & slog thro the week has ended!".
Hopefully the expansions fresh main quests may give me something to enjoy out this whole experience.

This is maybe only partly true. Some sidequests are just kind of "there" and really don't tie into anything. But then there are others that are pretty damn incredible, like the haunted lighthouse contract in Skellige. It really speaks to the dedication of the developers when you consider that quests like that are entirely optional and might be passed over by the average player. Not sure if you've actually done many of the sidequests so I won't spoil what's in them, but they are certainly more than "nothing meaningful."

 

[Great Deceiver]

I've been trying to finish Blood & Wine for about a year. Hearts of Stone was great but I really can't be arsed to care about any of the content in B&W at all. It's pretty enough, but the gameplay is just so fucking bad, and the story is nowhere close to being able to carry it, like it was in HoS.

Twitcher 3 has sat on my HD since release and I come back to it off and on every couple months or so, but I'm really feeling the urge to uninstall.

 

[Vorark]

Soon enough I'll give the game another go. Thanks to a user here I found a decent camera mod. Now, I've been reading enemies above your level get huge buffs. Would you recommend something like this to remove the scaling or should I just play vanilla?

The game gives huge buffs to enemies whose levels are greater than player's level by 6 or more. It's unusual form of level scaling where enemies instead of scaling to your level, scale FROM your level. Some players, including myself, consider it ridiculous. I believe that creature's level should depend on its power, not the other way around.

Enemies and quests keep their level dependent colouring.

 

[Falksi]

This is maybe only partly true. Some sidequests are just kind of "there" and really don't tie into anything. But then there are others that are pretty damn incredible, like the haunted lighthouse contract in Skellige. It really speaks to the dedication of the developers when you consider that quests like that are entirely optional and might be passed over by the average player. Not sure if you've actually done many of the sidequests so I won't spoil what's in them, but they are certainly more than "nothing meaningful."

That's what's worn me down mate. Did the lighthouse contract, would say it was decent enough but nothing spectacular tbh. I agree there are so.e brilliant side quests in there, my faves being Fools Gold, Carnal Sins & some of the "companion" side quests. But for every one of them there seems to be a couple of really dull, pointless ones. Which not only add to the games chore-like structure, but also remove a lot of the urgency set up by the initial "must find Ciri before the Wild Hunt does" premise.
Fair play to those who enjoyed it, but I think if you see/feel the repetitive patterns begin TW3 then it's a fairly dull and tiresome experience, with little emotional tension, excitement or drama.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I think the biggest problem with TW3 is that it really could have been a fucking amazing, amazing game, but that possibility was ruined by CDPR's decision to subscribe to the Ubishit school of pointless shit vomited all over the (admittedly very pretty) map and by the fact that they tried to cater to the sperg lootwhore crowd.

Just imagine how awesome this game would be if it played to its strengths - if it was focused on Witcher hunts, demanded proper preparation, didn't have crap shit loot all over the place, and if exploration actually mattered and was handled in an organic way. It could have been so fucking great.

Instead it's a very pretty popamole snoozefest with truly terrible underlying gameplay systems. It does look brilliant and some of the quest writing is the best in the business, but that's not enough to elevate it above mediocrity.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

That's what's worn me down mate. Did the lighthouse contract, would say it was decent enough but nothing spectacular tbh. I agree there are so.e brilliant side quests in there, my faves being Fools Gold, Carnal Sins & some of the "companion" side quests. But for every one of them there seems to be a couple of really dull, pointless ones. Which not only add to the games chore-like structure, but also remove a lot of the urgency set up by the initial "must find Ciri before the Wild Hunt does" premise.

It's really difficult to strike a balance between plot urgency and open-world, do anything you want gameplay.

People clearly prefer open-world gameplay, but if you don't provide some kind of urgency with the plot, people will have a weakened connection to the game and not want to play.

Baldur's Gate 2 had the same problem. There was a lot of urgency to find Imoen, but that discouraged you from takin your time and doing side-quests.

I disagree with you that this is a huge issue in TW3 though. While it is important to find Ciri, it's an investigation, not a rescue. Ciri isn't captured and being tortured like Imoen was in BG2. She can also clearly take care of herself to a degree. That said, she'll have to stop running and fight eventually and for that she will need help.

So I didn't feel like finding Ciri was so urgent as to disrupt doing sidequests and preparing to fight the Wild Hunt when I find her.

Individual quests had plenty of urgency and emotion though and once you actually find Ciri, there is plenty of urgency and emotion there too as all the focus of the game pushes you to finish the main quest..

 

[ilitarist]

I've just started Mass Effect Andromeda (I know, I know, but I have to see for myself how bad it is. And, honestly, right now it looks to me as a better game than all previous ME games) and they do open world in a nice way. You have a clear job of helping colonists survive. Of course, it limits roleplaying but it gives you a clear premise: you're a child of a visionary explorer, you're the kind of person who signs up for an insane mission of travelling into a new galaxy - it makes sense for you to care about your place in history and stuff. All the things you do are clearly aimed at securing a place in the new galaxy. You are not just checking points of interest on a map, you prospect the land and deal with danger for colonists, look for food and resources and so on. Even a token investigate murder quest is about "first murder in a new galaxy" so it makes sense for your character to want to get involved so that his name is everywhere in the history books.

Inquisition was like that too IIRC. I know BioWare is bad in other aspects of open world games, but plot-wise it makes sense. As I said before, Bethesda in general is bad about giving you motivation for engaging in sidequests till after the end game - only Morrowind tried to explain why you would go and become a leader of thieves guild while the world is on a brink of collapse. Fallout 3 is the worst offender as you're looking for your dad and then saving the people of Wasteland (from being saved by Enclave, but that's another matter) and at the point where it would make sense for you to go exploring you die because you're space Jesus. FNV was slightly better as you had to become familiar with various factions. The Witcher 3 is still bad in my book as it doesn't look like Geralt really needs money (he's on imperial payroll after all, to become rich he has to just save his step-daughter which he wants to do anyway) and all this DLC business only makes sense as a post-game activity. Ah, there's also UbiSoft model of open world where you can spend time gathering feathers.

 

[Falksi]

Great Deceiver - Agree with every single word of that wholeheartedly *tipshat*

And fair points Lambchop, do agree about BG2 too (always remember stepping out the initial portal once you'd escaped from the dungeon, to be drowned in quests from the off)
It's a fair pov, I'd just had the Wild Hunt built up so much from previous games & hype, that the casual, lazy pace of TW3 seemed jarring.
I just hope firms learn from it. The Open World, meaningless loot, repetitive MMO style soulless areas etc. seem to be a growing trend in games, and the praise for TW3 only fuels that.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

It's a fair pov, I'd just had the Wild Hunt built up so much from previous games & hype, that the casual, lazy pace of TW3 seemed jarring.

Was there a lot of hype though? TW2 was so forgetable that I don't remember a single reference to the Wild Hunt. And while there was buildup in TW1, all the weird retconning of the Wild Hunt from ghosts who take people's souls in TW1 into inter-dimensional elves in TW3 kind of nullifies that.

I just hope firms learn from it. The Open World, meaningless loot, repetitive MMO style soulless areas etc.

I disagree that TW3 had soulless MMO areas. Look to DA:I or Andromeda for true soulless MMO areas. TW3 was packed with quests and I can't think of one area in the game that didn't have a hidden side quest for you to stumble upon - and I'm not taking about bandit clearing or treasure spots.

The over abundance of loot and the poor scaling system did make most of it meaningless though, but I think that was down to poor implementation.

seem to be a growing trend in games, and the praise for TW3 only fuels that.

Praise does nothing for a game. It's all about money. The trend you are noticing is because of casuals an a much broader trend toward instant gratification that is being pushed in EVERY media, not just gaming and certainly not because of games like TW3.

We're witnessing a warping of our culture due to constant instantaneous feedback from things like Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, cellphone games, even sugary foods.

TW3's bad design decisions relating to items for example seem to spring from the idea that the average player is only going to play the game for X amount of minutes, therefore in those X minutes, the developers want to ensure gratification. So you play for 15-30 minutes, a monster drops a sword that's either better than your old one, or at least looks cool and you can sell for gold, and you leave the game with a positive feeling and a desire to come back and play more later.

Of course, the problem is that this makes items seem worthless to people who play it for an hour or more at a time.

 

[v1rus]

Well, I just made it to Novigrad, and obviously, I must agree on the above.

Game looks fucking amazing, music rocks, and every fragment of the story so far is top-notch.

Then again, combat sucks ass, exploring just doesnt feel right (why cant any game catch that feeling of Gothic's exploration, and what the fuck makes Gothic's exploration so fucking good?) and I'm seriously thinking of burning CDPR HQ cause of those damn PoIs. What kind of an alien being masquerading as a humanz thought that that shit comes remotely close to having fun?

All that said, the game is still pretty much terrific (so far) - not only cause the bar to a good game is set incredibly low these days, but cause the things it does well, it does amazingly fucking well.

EDIT - Oh, and ofc, it has my favorite form of - a terrific mechanic thats just not used in any way.

Talking about save transfer. I fucking love save transfers. I love them so fucking much. And yet, why the fuck have it if its not gonna affect anything for realz? Sure, meeting Letho was tons of fun, but what about that whole "witcher 2 eight endings" shenanigans? No matter what the fuck happened at the end of witcher 2, its literally same shit, and that gets me proper mad

 

[Falksi]

It's a fair pov, I'd just had the Wild Hunt built up so much from previous games & hype, that the casual, lazy pace of TW3 seemed jarring.

Was there a lot of hype though? TW2 was so forgetable that I don't remember a single reference to the Wild Hunt. And while there was buildup in TW1, all the weird retconning of the Wild Hunt from ghosts who take people's souls in TW1 into inter-dimensional elves in TW3 kind of nullifies that.

I just hope firms learn from it. The Open World, meaningless loot, repetitive MMO style soulless areas etc.

I disagree that TW3 had soulless MMO areas. Look to DA:I or Andromeda for true soulless MMO areas. TW3 was packed with quests and I can't think of one area in the game that didn't have a hidden side quest for you to stumble upon - and I'm not taking about bandit clearing or treasure spots.

The over abundance of loot and the poor scaling system did make most of it meaningless though, but I think that was down to poor implementation.

seem to be a growing trend in games, and the praise for TW3 only fuels that.

Praise does nothing for a game. It's all about money. The trend you are noticing is because of casuals an a much broader trend toward instant gratification that is being pushed in EVERY media, not just gaming and certainly not because of games like TW3.

We're witnessing a warping of our culture due to constant instantaneous feedback from things like Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, cellphone games, even sugary foods.

TW3's bad design decisions relating to items for example seem to spring from the idea that the average player is only going to play the game for X amount of minutes, therefore in those X minutes, the developers want to ensure gratification. So you play for 15-30 minutes, a monster drops a sword that's either better than your old one, or at least looks cool and you can sell for gold, and you leave the game with a positive feeling and a desire to come back and play more later.

Of course, the problem is that this makes items seem worthless to people who play it for an hour or more at a time.

It just makes it seem worthless full stop to me.

Don't disagree, DO:I, ME:A, KOA:R, Skyrim - many other soulless Open Worlds out there, but I don't think TW3 bucks that trend really. It just has better actual quests.

Like I say, it's not an awful game, it's just dull and drags for large parts. Personally my rating for it would be 5/10, but as a game I think it deserves a 7/10 because of all the counterpoints other people have mentioned.

What I find bizare is how it's praised for being the perfect example of a modern RPG, when older RPG's nailed elements of exploration, emotion, tension, drama etc. much better.

 

[ilitarist]

I just hope firms learn from it. The Open World, meaningless loot, repetitive MMO style soulless areas etc. seem to be a growing trend in games, and the praise for TW3 only fuels that.

Yeah, I'm sure all of those GOTY awards and infinite circlejerk of blaming every RPG ever for not being Witcher 3 will surely clear their head and make them looking for a new solutions.

Also I hate how alchemy was quietly turned into a meaningless system in TW3 compared to TW2 and no one seems to notice. It was problematic in TW2, of course, with all the need to foresee (save/load) future problems and drink potions accordingly, but at least there was some strategic management there. In TW3 you have infinite potions and do not care about any materials for most of the game.

I disagree that TW3 had soulless MMO areas. Look to DA:I or Andromeda for true soulless MMO areas. TW3 was packed with quests and I can't think of one area in the game that didn't have a hidden side quest for you to stumble upon - and I'm not taking about bandit clearing or treasure spots.

I wouldn't call it MMO but TW3 had whole fields of nothing dotted with Ubisoft-style points of interest. All this space was basically empty and they felt the need to fill it. I think it'd work much better as a real empty space thus giving you a sense of size of the land. Maybe with some random encounters. The way they did it breaks immersion somewhat (you can't walk for a minute from a village without encountering packs of bandits, monsters and ancient treasure while villages only complain about some specific monster who appears in a special time of month) and gives you additional busywork with fighting which the game has enough of. And you basically have 2 big locations, Fantasy Poland and Fantasy Iceland. They're great looking but get old fast. Meanwhile Inquisition did have atrocious collection quests but it also had multitude areas, each with a very distincitve look and feel, each with some gimmick, each with a grand sidequest - and there were so many of them you didn't have to visit most of them. I sure didn't cause I became bored which wouldn't happen if I knew beforehand you shouldn't bother with all the collection sidequests. But I'd sure be much more bored with Witcher 3 if I'd even attempted to visit all the places.

And BTW TW3 does a bad thing with those places to visit: very rarely you can find places of power and those give you a skillpoint. Early on it's very, very important. So you sort of encouraged to investigate all those places and leave at once when you see it's another monster den or bandits guarding a chest with some crap.