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Thursday is finally here.

Gord

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Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
[Why dear reader, please enjoy the story how I once attempted to trespass upon a mining camp...]

I don't think that quest really suits an assassin, I'm not sure every quest should be completable with any skillset.

True, but mining camp could use some adjustments, imho.
I tried the Praetor and unless you happen to have high INT for the bandits option, the remaining options aren't exactly suited for a Praetor either (come on, disguise AND lore?), although it's part of the House Daratan quest line.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,485
Location
casting coach
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo
Yeah, diverse characters should be most fun to play, so logically people should be encouraged into that by the mechanics too, instead of killing them off if they don't make boring and 1-dimensional guys.
 

Kaol

Educated
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
253
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo

I think #2 is already ingame.

As for #1 i think having to use your brain abit more would be nice instead of

[awesome] WIN
 

skuphundaku

Economic devastator, Mk. 11
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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo
Yes, because there are already too many people managing to get even through the demo without ragequitting. WE NEED MOAR RAGEQUITTING! MOAR!!!
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,253
Location
Poland
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo
Yes, because there are already too many people managing to get even through the demo without ragequitting. WE NEED MOAR RAGEQUITTING! MOAR!!!

Surprisingly my pure combat character had no problems with going through the demo with the thief questline. Apparently you dont need sneak, lockpicking or streetwise to be a good thief. Just get 10 str 10 agi 10 con and a good dagger.

What is even more surprising is the fact that daggers seem to be the best overall weapon with high STR characters. Surely this is not how it should work?

Some rehash on bonuses coming from stats would be good. STR should provide a % based bonus to weapon damage and maybe 1-2 points of pure damage bonus. Something like 5% per point of STR and 50% (for a total of +100% for one handed and 150% for two handed at 10 STR) more for two handed weapons would be perfect. CON is good as it is currently since you cant get hp otherwise. DEX is also good and doesnt need buff. Too good maybe. PER should affect crit rate (if it does not) and general awareness, shoudl replace DEX in many check, for example in ambushes. No idea what CHA does, seems useless if can be replaced with skill points in social skills. INT is the king of the hill being a must have for any character that plans to progress. Maybe tying combat skills and their development to STR DEX and CON could fix that.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
I think something that VD should consider is to make avoidiong combat all together EXTREMLY HARD, almost imposible
and also make it so that a retard who knows only how to fight, would be almost for sure killed with no chance of winning
Hopefully he will read this
Balanced chars should be most belivable in this sort of world and also most fun and logical at least imo
Yes, because there are already too many people managing to get even through the demo without ragequitting. WE NEED MOAR RAGEQUITTING! MOAR!!!
i cant imagine why wouldnt anyone be able to go trough the demo. Game isnt even on the hard side in many ways. I noticed only ppl that ragequited are ppl that didnt even gave a chance to learning a thing or two about the system. And i find that a good thing, why would u want a system that u dont even need to learn about to be sucsess full in.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
Patron
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Messages
2,912
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Ardamai
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
The game just doesn't assume you will be able to win all combats with all characters, and intentionally makes the combat approach the most difficult -> and the assassin has a more appropriate route of handling the raiders anyway. The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).

But yes, combat viability of characters is very hit or miss... Dodge-based assassins (daggers, nets, crossbow) have very slim chances of winning the full raider camp combat in the demo - or that's just my opinion and I gave up too easily (the most I managed reliably was killing one raider before the others overwhelm me). Then again, my block merc also had lots of trouble with the raiders without crafted heavy armor (and roflstomped them on the first try with it), so I'm sure I'm not the right person to give AoD combat tips...

Good thing crit strike works with the raiders - and I can't image why would anyone play an assassin without crit strike anyway, it's practically the poster skill for the class. Or your assassin has a low body count? Is he an assassin or a daisy-picker? :P
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
Dude! I thought you were some kind of old school RPG fan, Matt! Just critical strike + intimidate the raiders. It's like the easiest quest for an assassin. Go kill some refugees or those 3 rich people by the palace, if you have a low body count (I don't see why you would, though).

The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).
The Palace assault with weak IG allies is actually much, much harder. I would say nearly impossible without using all the tricks in the book (including, but not limited to, reaping civilians for SP and killing your fellow IG for his steel armor).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Pretty much. Not every quest can and should be completed by your character. That's why Dellar gives you 2 quests (not to mention other ways to bypass him) and the raiders quest is more suitable for assassins.

Sometimes (quite often) you're hopelessly outnumbered, which is the way it should be. You're not a chosen one who can kill everything and solve every problem with violence. You're just a man. You aren't trying to save the world, you're trying not to end up dead.

Naturally, a 1 against "5-6 heavily armored men" fight should be very, very hard. Would it make sense if it wasn't? There is no shame to walk away.
 

circ

Arcane
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
11,470
Location
Great Pacific Garbage Patch
Well, I did bandit camp with a thief. Didn't use shield just dodge. No nets used either. Killed them all with I think 60 dodge. Still dodge is broken, and I had to use the metal armor, M-whatever. Because leather is so shitty.

I almost managed mining camp. Had to use nets. Killed everyone but captain. IT WAS FUCKED UP. I got him to almost dead, had 6 hp left. I would have needed one fucking hit. But no, RNG fuck you. Yeah that was with a thief. WHY? I forgot you needed 40 sneak for the second location and had no SP left and only 39 sneak.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
Joined
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Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
The game just doesn't assume you will be able to win all combats with all characters, and intentionally makes the combat approach the most difficult -> and the assassin has a more appropriate route of handling the raiders anyway. The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).

But yes, combat viability of characters is very hit or miss... Dodge-based assassins (daggers, nets, crossbow) have very slim chances of winning the full raider camp combat in the demo - or that's just my opinion and I gave up too easily (the most I managed reliably was killing one raider before the others overwhelm me). Then again, my block merc also had lots of trouble with the raiders without crafted heavy armor (and roflstomped them on the first try with it), so I'm sure I'm not the right person to give AoD combat tips...

Good thing crit strike works with the raiders - and I can't image why would anyone play an assassin without crit strike anyway, it's practically the poster skill for the class. Or your assassin has a low body count? Is he an assassin or a daisy-picker? :p
Crit strike works with the raiders, but that's just one man. There are 4 attackers besides the leader. Intimidation doesn't work, is it because of the low bodycount?

Edit: Sigh, I managed to finish the bandit's camp, but at what cost! I had to pay for the prisoner. What kind of assassin am I? Shame on me. On the bright side, I will continue the game. :D

Edit 2: and with the skillpoints received from the bandit quest, I could increase my sneak skill, so i could sneak into the mining camp. I'm liking the game again. :D I know, I'm easy to please.
 

skuphundaku

Economic devastator, Mk. 11
Patron
Joined
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Messages
2,248
Location
Rouge Angles of Satin
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
The game just doesn't assume you will be able to win all combats with all characters, and intentionally makes the combat approach the most difficult -> and the assassin has a more appropriate route of handling the raiders anyway. The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).

But yes, combat viability of characters is very hit or miss... Dodge-based assassins (daggers, nets, crossbow) have very slim chances of winning the full raider camp combat in the demo - or that's just my opinion and I gave up too easily (the most I managed reliably was killing one raider before the others overwhelm me). Then again, my block merc also had lots of trouble with the raiders without crafted heavy armor (and roflstomped them on the first try with it), so I'm sure I'm not the right person to give AoD combat tips...

Good thing crit strike works with the raiders - and I can't image why would anyone play an assassin without crit strike anyway, it's practically the poster skill for the class. Or your assassin has a low body count? Is he an assassin or a daisy-picker? :p
I managed to get the raiders quest solved with my assassin by convincing Dellar to wipe them out because I was failing all the other dialogue-based options. However, I couldn't manage to get the outpost quest done in any way without combat when playing the assassin, and fighting Aurelians was too difficult, so I had to leave that one unsolved. Wasting SP on sneak or disguise&lore just of that quest was not worth it for an assassin IMO. I suppose that coming back later, right before the final assassin mission, with more SP invested and better equipment may make taking out the Aurelians possible, even for a dodge-based assassion, but it would definitely not be easy.
 

skuphundaku

Economic devastator, Mk. 11
Patron
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Messages
2,248
Location
Rouge Angles of Satin
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Ok, I'm giving up. I'm giving up and shamefully walk away. The combat in this game is way too hard. I tried the radiers camp and the mining outpost with my assassin, but I died. But what the fuck, 5-6 heavily armed men against one? The alternatives (skill use) don't work because my character was not built around those skills. I will check out the full game, but for now I don't waste my time on this. I'm not saying that the game is bad, there is a chance that I suck. But even if that's the case, the game still wants to be more hardcore than it should be.
The game just doesn't assume you will be able to win all combats with all characters, and intentionally makes the combat approach the most difficult -> and the assassin has a more appropriate route of handling the raiders anyway. The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).

But yes, combat viability of characters is very hit or miss... Dodge-based assassins (daggers, nets, crossbow) have very slim chances of winning the full raider camp combat in the demo - or that's just my opinion and I gave up too easily (the most I managed reliably was killing one raider before the others overwhelm me). Then again, my block merc also had lots of trouble with the raiders without crafted heavy armor (and roflstomped them on the first try with it), so I'm sure I'm not the right person to give AoD combat tips...

Good thing crit strike works with the raiders - and I can't image why would anyone play an assassin without crit strike anyway, it's practically the poster skill for the class. Or your assassin has a low body count? Is he an assassin or a daisy-picker? :p
Crit strike works with the raiders, but that's just one man. There are 4 attackers besides the leader. Intimidation doesn't work, is it because of the low bodycount?
Yes, you need a higher bodycount. I went for that quest early on and, even though I passed the critical strike check, I didn't have enough kills for the intimidate check and I wasn't in the mood to do battle against the RNG and 4 raiders with a low-level dodge-based assassin.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
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Ardamai
The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).
The Palace assault with weak IG allies is actually much, much harder. I would say nearly impossible without using all the tricks in the book (including, but not limited to, reaping civilians for SP and killing your fellow IG for his steel armor).
That happens when Carrinas pretty much writes you off as canon fodder and sends you to die so he has a pretext for coming back with better forces - i.e. ending up in that situation is pretty much a failure outcome, and I'd be very curious if people actually manage to beat that fight. Still, you are correct :salute:
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
The Aurelian outpost is the hardest fight in the demo, so it should be done last (if at all).
The Palace assault with weak IG allies is actually much, much harder. I would say nearly impossible without using all the tricks in the book (including, but not limited to, reaping civilians for SP and killing your fellow IG for his steel armor).
That happens when Carrinas pretty much writes you off as canon fodder and sends you to die so he has a pretext for coming back with better forces - i.e. ending up in that situation is pretty much a failure outcome, and I'd be very curious if people actually manage to beat that fight. Still, you are correct :salute:
I went with full-on bruiser and managed to complete the IG quest line. I had charisma and intelligence at 4. I think it makes tower assault harder, too. Still, crafting + block = op :smug:
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
You're not a chosen one who can kill everything and solve every problem with violence. You're just a man.

Y'know, the biggest fallacy with this fancy logic of yours that it only works when related to combat characters and situations. As long as we're talking about noncombat solution, you ARE a fucking chosen one who can solve pretty much everything with a perfect solution and best outcome for himself and, occasionally, even society (after all, it's me, the player, and not you, the designer, should decide whom my character should aspire to become. even if I wanna play as a complete retard who still wants to bring some good and hope into an otherwise rotten choice, it is still my decision, even if it is a dumb on e). Like, as far as I get it, best outcome for teron lies in uniting Antidas with Carrinos and, as far as I've seen it, it's not quite possible without investing heavily in social skills.

But I digress. While you like to state that you lose your first combats and should not engage in them because your character is a chump (which is pretty lame excuse but ok), suddenly, as long as you're choosing to play as a noncombat character, you start as a fucking ace of your trade. No, really, if you build your char right, it seems like it is perfectly possible to infiltrate palace dalaran right from the start, from the very beginning and without doing any quests at all (now, you can easily get to the Antidas himself, just checked it right now, but the question stands as for whether you're able to steal the scroll from his display room - I'm too lazy to calculate the proper build, but I guess it is possible). So yeah, if you want to start as an expert infiltrator and thief (and please, don't tell me that it is realistic that any chump can get into a highly secure palace completely unnoticed) or if you want to start as an expert actor (because getting there via disguise is probably even easier) or if you want to start as a prince charming (cha 10 and persuasion is the easiest way ever), it is all piss-easy, but if you want to start as an expert in combat... No, fuck you, in combat you can be only chump. That's a sound logic.

Edit: Sigh, I managed to finish the bandit's camp, but at what cost! I had to pay for the prisoner. What kind of assassin am I? Shame on me. On the bright side, I will continue the game. :D

Your build is crappy, probably. My 10 10 4 8 4 4 dodge-dagger assassin with hardened masterwork iron manica & steel jambia was able to finish off that camp with relative ease. You crit off the leader, then with 6 fast attacks you pretty much one-round the raider that is closest to you, then you defend from the remaining two meleers in the spot between prisoner's cage and wall, then, finally, you kite away two archers, kill them, and then off the third one. Quite doable.

Couldn't finish off the mine, though. Best I was able to accomplish is to remain mano a mano with their leader, but even netted, he's just too much for my dps. Perhaps if you forgo pumping other skills and get 75 crafting instead, with balanced hardened jambia it would get doable... But that would require a totally different build, like, less STR and perception to get int 10 and that shitton of points, so maybe that's a bad idea.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
What is this VD?

RPG Watch member said:
Vince has been sifting through the Public Beta feedback for The Age of Decadence and has found five common complaints (leaving aside the positives) and has asked for further feedback. If you'd like to contribute, head to this thread on the Iron Tower forums:

Combat difficulty
Exploration
Few choices within a path
Min-maxing (uneven skills/stats)
Metagaming required to pass quests

Why are you not calling people idiots who play too much popamole anymore and want their opinion?
What happened VD? I thought you had cocksuckers with endgame screenshots telling you how perfect AoD is, just to play stuff earlier (known as "testers" at ITS)?

Another RPG Watch member said:
He should also make sure everyone tells him the one thing they liked the most. So they don't bork the best parts trying to fix the worst…
Well one thing I liked the most is teleporting. It's actually pretty deep when you think about it.
The main character has a power of travelling without moving, which tends to get him right in the middle of enemies, even if he is an archer or an assassin or any other character not trying to jump into the middle of enemies before attacking them - which, as per VD, means that you get overwhelmed and can't with the battle which is by design (even though you could've won it easily if not for your powerful teleporting magic)
So now you have to spend the rest of the game taming that extraordinare power.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Why are you not calling people idiots who play too much popamole anymore and want their opinion?
I called *you* an idiot, Skyway, 'cause you're a special like that. I also explained *why* I called you an idiot, but being an idiot, you didn't understand a word. The joke is, quite obviously, on me.

What happened VD? I thought you had cocksuckers with endgame screenshots telling you how perfect it is to play it earlier (known as "testers" at ITS)?
Combat. Only combat. It proved, you see, that it was possible to beat the game with "fighters" with different stats. It proved that neither ranged combat nor swords, as you claimed, are useless. I'm not sure if you noticed (probably not), but out of 103 people who voted only 5 thought that combat is impossible.

The game isn't perfect and there is more to it than combat. We've listened to the feedback, to criticism, and agreed with many complaints and suggestions on this here forums. Of course, I didn't agree with every random dumbfuck and listened mostly to people who put some thoughts in their posts, but that's not a reason to get all butthurt.

I'm sure that with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, you too can get to the point where people actually listen to what you have to say.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
I called *you* an idiot, Skyway, 'cause you're a special like that. I also explained *why* I called you an idiot, but being an idiot, you didn't understand a word. The joke is, quite obviously, on me.

Indeed. Because when many other people started posting complaints that were exactly like mine - that strange but familiar feeling formed in your butt so you had to jump on your bike and backpedal.


Combat. Only combat. It proved, you see, that it was possible to beat the game with "fighters" with different stats. It proved that neither ranged combat nor swords, as you claimed, are useless. I'm not sure if you noticed (probably not), but out of 103 people who voted only 5 thought that combat is impossible.
I claimed that swords were useless? I didn't know that, thanks for telling me.
And yes bows are useless if their main function is to catch dust in the inventory as you teleport into the close combat or skip that combat altogether. Leaving archers to enjoy much fewer combat encounters than everyone else. Not because "you can't beat all encounters" but because your shitty engine can't switch seamlessly between combat and non-combat gameplay and thus you must have the same combat encounter design for any character build.

The game isn't perfect and there is more to it than combat. We've listened to the feedback, to criticism, and agreed with many complaints and suggestions on this here forums. Of course, I didn't agree with every random dumbfuck and listened mostly to people who put some thoughts in their posts, but that's not a reason to get all butthurt.
So what else is there to the game? The retarded stat checks that will be always failed if you have lower stats than an unknown number? In fact so retarded that you need a Schwarzenegger build both in Dex and Str to climb over a mere fence in the beginning of the game?

I'm sure that with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, you too can get to the point where people actually listen to what you have to say.
But you do. You just don't admit that everything I complained about is correct - but you agree with people who wrote exactly the same. You are just too butthurt over me schooling you - is all.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Didn't like it. Didn't like it at all.

There's something terribly off with the writing, pace, and presentation in this game. It's like the designer guys at ITS (VD?) got the theory right, things like including stat & skill checks, choices & consequences, factions, believable dialogue, but the execution is fucking terrible. A downright boring game, through and through. The only interesting aspect is the combat, but they should go for a tactical squad game if that's the only thing they can get right.

PS: Cheers to Oscar for his incredible effort in presenting some very good environments, and for getting the combat numbers right (a key factor in game design).
 

Pelvis Knot

Cipher
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
885
s6XWU.jpg
 

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