Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zorba the Hutt]

Well, Colin, the root of the problem is that people get excited over pretty much nothing when it's about games such as these that they're so emotionally invested in. They played PS:T about ten years ago and the nostalgia still lives on and sometimes not even because of the game itself, but because the memory of the game and how the gaming community views it.

TL: DR, Codex always jumps on the hypetrain when it comes to major Kickstarters and should take a chill pill once in a while. It's either heaven or hell, but nothing between.

True, but if you deliberately appeal to that nostalgia to raise more money then that's the price you pay. Still better than a FO:NV deal with a publisher I reckon.

In the long run the hype and knee-jerk reactions will die down and the games will be judged on their merits. All I wanted from Torment was a similar feel to PST and great,imaginative writing. I'm pretty optimistic given the team they've assembled and what they've revealed so far and will just avoid any potential spoilers and the expected nitpicking over UI details and graphics.

 

[buzz]

The Kickstarter field is still open for a "Baldur's Gate 3."

Keep giving Beamdog ideas, you ass!

 

[TheLostOne]

After seeing how the gameplay of PoE beta turned out, im much more reticent about getting hyped for game by graphics alone.

And thats all thats almost all Torment has shown till now, pretty graphics... that being said, the dialogue snippets shown were much more impressive for me.

I hear you, but honestly TTON combat matters less than if they can nail the characters, dialog, setting and story. PS:T had garbage combat so I'm pretty sure this will at least exceed that one. They've straight up said that combat is not the focus of the game and there won't be (m)any trash encounters.

BG and IWD, were way more about combat then PS:T which is why POE needs to get it right to succeed.

Not saying they can't still mess things up and that they shouldn't try to make combat really fun, but I'm way more confident after watching that. Also, I think with their crisis system, and the more handcrafted encounters, they have an easier time than Obsidian. They can focus on making a modest number of combats fun and interesting, and don't need to worry as much about Balance.

 

[mastroego]

PoE is still graphically "ooh" and "aah". Sadly, some of the design decisions - for some backers - have made the game very distant from the IE games it seeks to replicate.

The Kickstarter field is still open for a "Baldur's Gate 3."

I wouldn't want to be a designer for a Kickstarter game such as TTON or PoE.

First you start figuring out why people love those IE-games and wonder what are the aspects backers want to have in this new, shiny kickstarter version. Nice 2.5D graphics, good writing and minimal, but effective voice-acting is a given. Then there's some talk about other content, someone gets butthurt about combat, the plot, setting, whatever, but you decide what you decide and eventually start working.

Some time later, you release some footage. People take it pretty well, it seems like you got the graphics, music and atmosphere right. It seems like there's renewed positivity about the game and noone brings up the previous things they felt iffy about with the game. It leaves a good taste in the backers' mouths and everyone forget the small squabbles they had 3-4 months ago.

So the hype is stewing for months as you give out bits and such about combat and quests and the rest and eventually the beta is released. People are ecstatic! It's going to be great! Remember the graphics? The atmosphere! The music, oh dear lord almighty, I can't see where to put in my betakey as I'm coming all over my screen! Oh please, just let me get to it, I can't take it anymore!

And then the reception is less than spectacular. 'I don't like how the UI is like and I don't care if you can place it how you want, it's supposed to be like this like it was in BG1!' 'I don't like inventory, the paperdolls aren't anything like in IE games!' 'The difficulty settings suck, why isn't the hardcore mode the default mode, this is bullshit!' Some people get out their pitchforks and run into the forums: 'They ruined it, it isn't anything like Planescape, it's a complete rip-off! Why can't they just make an IE-game the way people want?!'

As a dev you take a bottle of scotch and spend the night at your office wondering what the hell do these people want?

Well, Colin, the root of the problem is that people get excited over pretty much nothing when it's about games such as these that they're so emotionally invested in. They played PS:T about ten years ago and the nostalgia still lives on and sometimes not even because of the game itself, but because the memory of the game and how the gaming community views it.

TL: DR, Codex always jumps on the hypetrain when it comes to major Kickstarters and should take a chill pill once in a while. It's either heaven or hell, but nothing between.

What was revealed of PoE showed lack of soul behind the design.
You need to look no further than the spreadsheet-fest of uninspired items with "+1 to this, +1 to that" effects to confirm that. Add the idiotic (IMHO) choices about stats and other core mechanics, and I pretty much know that PoE won't go anyplace my mind will want to roam to.
(I don't fancy traveling to Retardland).

But this Torment video made me dream and hope - a bit.
Just a bit, but it's a VERY good start.
It's just my guts speaking, but I think the guy in charge of THIS projects understands a little better what backers expected when they funded a "spiritual successor" to a beloved game.
We know it's hard to recapture the magic, but now I can honestly say that they seem to be trying, at the very least.

 

[Brother None]

I wonder how often the pledge count is updated on their site. I stare and stare yet nothing is happening

Brother None said that pledges through paypal are imported through a manual process.. They do it weekly but it's not automated.. I think you are literally waiting on someone at InXile to hit the "Load Payments" red button on their desk.

Correct though it's a bit more involved in that. This has always been our process primarily because we found PayPal's automated processes here limited, so essentially our IT guys export data and import it into the database "manually" (for a given value of manual), it takes a few hours per time which is why it's not daily.

I do think eventually we'll do automated for Torment but we weren't going to risk that for launch because of the chance of errors seeping in.

 

[Immortal]

I wonder how often the pledge count is updated on their site. I stare and stare yet nothing is happening

Brother None said that pledges through paypal are imported through a manual process.. They do it weekly but it's not automated.. I think you are literally waiting on someone at InXile to hit the "Load Payments" red button on their desk.

Correct though it's a bit more involved in that. This has always been our process primarily because we found PayPal's automated processes here limited, so essentially our IT guys export data and import it into the database "manually" (for a given value of manual), it takes a few hours per time which is why it's not daily.

I do think eventually we'll do automated for Torment but we weren't going to risk that for launch because of the chance of errors seeping in.

So there isn't a red button? Another Broken Promise..

EDIT
If you see this post will you be doing another manual port before Friday? I just got WL2 through the 65 dollar pledge instead of ordering directly off steam so I could support the backer goal for planescape (whatever that goal is I can't find it on the site)

I just want my steam key so I can play it friday.

 

[Infinitron]

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Filip: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8430

Full thread below. Includes a surprise visit from our friend Aurore!

Spoiler

 

[Zeriel]

I was wondering if I was missing anything by not being on the backer website/forums. Evidently not.

 

[polo]

Filip

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

That trolling routine never gets old

 

[dryan]

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Filip: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8430


Full thread below. Includes a surprise visit from our friend Aurore!

Is that the same chick who ragequit the codex after I said I didn't like gender equality in video games?

 

[Infinitron]

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Filip: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8430


Full thread below. Includes a surprise visit from our friend Aurore!

Is that the same chick who ragequit the codex after I said I didn't like gender equality in video games?

That's the one: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...aka-the-codex-has-a-problem-with-women.89604/

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Filip: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8430

Full thread below. Includes a surprise visit from our friend Aurore!

Spoiler

This troll is so fat, that it makes our dear BLOBERT look like an anorexic ballerina.

 

[dryan]

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Filip: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8430


Full thread below. Includes a surprise visit from our friend Aurore!

Is that the same chick who ragequit the codex after I said I didn't like gender equality in video games?

That's the one: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...aka-the-codex-has-a-problem-with-women.89604/

I can't follow that link, but I'll take your word for it.
Man, this girl really needs to stop taking the bait!

 

[Infinitron]

https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8436&p=118920#p118920

Thanks for all of the feedback, Andy86c, and others! Some notes on the Conversation UI (and some related topics), as shown in the video:

• Its maximum size is customizable by the player. It's a little subtle, but you can see this in the video -- in the second conversation with Artaglio, the maximum size was lowered by the player, and thus the text portion didn't scroll upward. The current version actually can condense down another 25% or so, but this isn't shown in the video. We haven't finalized the range of options that will be available.
• We haven't implemented it yet, but font size will be customizable by the player, too. We made the font a little large for the video so that the text would be more readable when the video isn't full screen. We haven't finalized the range of text sizes that we will support. The barkstring text size might also be adjustable and we made it a little larger for purposes of readability in the video.
• We plan to make the "help" text be togglable by the player (i.e., the yellow text reveal that Lore: Civilization was why you could see that first player response that's chosen). (We haven't implemented this option yet.)
• We are undecided on how much detail to expose for Tide changes. We may allow an option like you see in the video. But even in that case, we are thinking about more subtle effects and not brazen text like that. For the video, we wanted to convey the presence of the Tides and since we hadn't reach a final design or implementation for this aspect, we went this route. (This is one of the very few things shown in the video that was "fake" -- though the Tides are implemented and can be increased in dialogue, those "Tide rises" messages were just added to those lines in the conversation, instead of being generated programmatically.)
• Correct -- most conversations won't be voiced, actually. The Companion global dialogues will be partially voiced. Key story conversations will be voiced, at least partially. Some major NPCs will have a few lines where we feel that the player hearing their voice will particularly help in establishing the character.
  
  We do intend to voice companion barkstrings, such as Matkina's statement upon reaching the yellow glyphs. Companion interjections will be voiced in conversations that have other characters voiced, as shown in the second conversation with Artaglio. Were Artaglio not voiced, Matkina wouldn't be either.
  
  (To be honest, Artaglio is a minor enough character (in the current design, you never have to talk to him) that he probably wouldn't be voiced in the real game. We partially voiced him for purposes of the video, to illustrate how our voiced conversations might be, and also because voice adds a lot to the scene and the video. (The voice actor was our talented audio director, Alex Brandon, so it was essentially free.))
• We plan for character barkstrings (e.g., the guards outside the gate, Matkina) and descriptive text (e.g., the putrid remains, the heat generator) to have different looks to better differentiate them. We haven't yet implemented the distinction in the display of these types of information, so they appear the same in the video.
• Of course, we do intend to iterate on the Conversation UI throughout development. What you see in the video represents our first, mostly complete, pass. As you might infer by the empty space on the left and some of the elements on the right, there are some other ideas we are still developing and experimenting with. (And of course, the reactions we see regarding this version will have some influence on any changes we might make. We have a long way to go still before TTON is done, and conversations are the heart of it. So you can bet it will remain a priority for us throughout development.

Kevin

 

[Infinitron]

Moar Kevin: https://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8433&p=118931#p118931

Thanks for the comments and questions, i_ramiz.

The three bars represent your three stat pools (Might, Speed, Intellect). Having more Might in your Might Pool doesn't (directly) mean that you can perform greater feats of strength. You lose points from your stat pools when damaged. And you can also deliberately expend those points to increase your chance of success in any given task. For example, if you are swinging a weapon, you might spend Might to increase your chance to hit. This use of your stat pools is called applying "Effort."

You will sometimes encounter Difficult Tasks in conversations, with the "[Persuasion]" option shown (but not chosen) in the second conversation with Artaglio in the video. In these cases, you will have the option to expend Effort, so having your stat pools visible in the Conversation UI may be helpful.

Regarding the Tide messages: it is possible that we decide to not actually reveal them in conversations. But if we do, they will be gated -- perhaps by a Skill that you can choose, or not (and that would have other gameplay effects as well), or perhaps just as a player option. We are also considering instead providing information on Tide changes only at certain points in time, such as when you take a Long Rest or Sleep.

We are contemplating a feature that would optionally provide extra details as to *why* the Tide shift occurred. For example, in the video, you might be able to see that reason for the Red Tide rising (in the first Conversation) was "for advocating immediate action" and for the Indigo Tide rising (in the second Conversation) was for "holding Artaglio to his word." We are uncertain about this feature because of the significant extra effort it could require to implement well and write reasons for all of the Tide changes.

(Note that in the current design, Tides almost never fall. Your Dominant Tide(s) is based upon which one (or two) are most prevalent in your actions.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Tides do not define major capabilities of your character; if your Dominant Tide(s) change, it won't fundamentally alter your gameplay. (E.g., it's not like in earlier editions of D&D, where if a Paladin becomes non-Lawful Good, they suffer penalties. Or the KotOR games where your abilities are largely governed by whether you are Light or Dark Side.)

Our goal is for players to make their choices based upon the situations they encounter. While some may want to meta-game due to the Tides, the Tides are designed to be at least somewhat resistant to this impulse. (It is an ongoing challenge to keep this true, while also ensuring the the Tides have enough relevance to the game. Much of the reactivity from the Tides is narrative in nature.)

Kevin

 

[Abu Antar]

I wonder how often the pledge count is updated on their site. I stare and stare yet nothing is happening

Brother None said that pledges through paypal are imported through a manual process.. They do it weekly but it's not automated.. I think you are literally waiting on someone at InXile to hit the "Load Payments" red button on their desk.

Correct though it's a bit more involved in that. This has always been our process primarily because we found PayPal's automated processes here limited, so essentially our IT guys export data and import it into the database "manually" (for a given value of manual), it takes a few hours per time which is why it's not daily.

I do think eventually we'll do automated for Torment but we weren't going to risk that for launch because of the chance of errors seeping in.

While you are here, I will be a burden. If I already managed my pledges on the old Torment site, will everything be autofilled on the new site? (Digital only tier.)

 

[Nihiliste]

Holy fuck that looks incredible. This is the kickstarter that I'm most looking forward to and that I blew by far the most money on so I'm excited that the initial look is positive. It's too early to get truly excited at this pre-alpha stage but man what a promising start. My worries about the initial presentation of W2 have been allayed for the time being. I agree with the people who've said that this video invokes the feel of an IE spiritual successor more than PoE is currently - rather than the smoke and mirrors of PoE which looks like an IE game but under the hood is intended to play completely differently, early glimpses of Torment suggest a game that doesn't bother pretending to copy the mechanics of the IE games but instead try to capture their spirit.

Honestly, it says something that MCA always seems much more excited about this game than he does about the game his own company is making. There are a few decisions here that I think are already clear improvements over PoE, at least in the context of my own preferences: turn based vs RTWP, quality encounters over quantity, narrative focus over combat (storyfag sighting), music (Mark Morgan >>> Justin Bell). The UI design already looks superior in concept. And in the end I prefer the idea of a game designed by known bros (Zeits, Saunders, McComb, etc) vs those of dubious or unknown broness (Sawyer/Fenstermaker respectively). Is Tony Evans working on this game too?

 

[Infinitron]

I don't think that many people knew who Kevin Saunders and Colin McComb were before this Kickstarter. For instance, it was enough to make Vault Dweller initially dubious of this Kickstarter - Ziets was the only one he trusted, and he wasn't (and isn't) the Creative Lead.

 

[Abu Antar]

I don't think that many people knew who Kevin Saunders and Colin McComb were before this Kickstarter. For instance, it was enough to make Vault Dweller dubious of this Kickstarter - Ziets was the only one he trusted, and he wasn't (and isn't) the Creative Lead.

I looked them all up the day it was known the Kickstarter was a thing and was happy with that. (I did know about Saunders.)

 

[Nihiliste]

If this kickstarter era fails to give us a game with Ziets as narrative lead then a great injustice will have been done.

 

[Snerf]

I don't think that many people knew who Kevin Saunders and Colin McComb were before this Kickstarter. For instance, it was enough to make Vault Dweller initially dubious of this Kickstarter - Ziets was the only one he trusted, and he wasn't (and isn't) the Creative Lead.

I wasn't familiar with McComb (though so far he seems like a total bro and someone well suited to the project based on his previous work) but Saunders' involvement with Shattered Galaxy was a really positive connection for me. Most people here probably won't have played it as it was a little known rts/mmo/strategyish online game, but it was actually super well done and a lot of fun.

 

[Brother None]

I don't think that many people knew who Kevin Saunders and Colin McComb were before this Kickstarter.

Man when I was introduced to the team even I went "Adam Heine who is that?"
(sorry Adam)

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm not familiar with anyone but Harvey Smith for sucking my cock via Deus Ex and Todd Howard for shitting on Morrowind. Rock stars are for fags.

 

[Darkzone]

Colin McComb was not known? This man wrote my favorite AD&D 2nd edition book.