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Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

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Kyl Von Kull

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You can have naval landings without naval combat. Regarding naval combat proper, you could have two factions with navies, though in my opinion that could easily be covered by armies transporting over water fighting it out in ships which would be with similar stats.

There are four viking factions, so throw in Wessex and it would be much more substantial. Still, I would be totally cool with no independent navy so long as some armies can sail. But it doesn't look like they're doing that.

English (lets call it that) navy was created with the sole purpose of discouraging viking raiding.
It's a concept hard to implement in a not boring way in a Total War game. It'd be perhaps better to just resolve it as some kind of a decision with +/- percentages to reinforcements or tribute.

Sure, a squadron of ships would work perfectly as a building tree for coastal towns. That might be the ideal way to do it.
 

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I was under the impression that armies do sail, like in Rome II. I think it's even visible in some of the videos posted here.
 

fantadomat

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During the Victorian age,sure. But before that not that much. Certainly not during its tribal years.
4e084f53f1049b5ba0f6c1287b28d703.jpg

Also tribal years lol.
+M You do know the difference between British and Norse,right? I am saying that British had not much of impact,not the Norse.
They would have commanded unified squadrons of ships. Same goes for the Danish kings of Jorvik. So the Norse should absolutely have naval units.
Did they do sea battle with those naval units, and if yes with whom?
They did battle,mainly with themself. It was most likely a combination of bow shooting and boarding. Not something impressive but it was a major part of that time period. Vikings without navy is like making a strategy game about the great war and not including the first tanks because they were far too few. But lets be honest here,they didn't implemented it because they are lazy bastards or don't have the budget. The whole DLC feels like cheap throw away.
Here it is some random video ;).
 

curry

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Does anyone know if this game features a tasteful rape mechanic for the Viking factions? Not having one would certainly be immersion breaking
 

Fedora Master

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On the one hand, CA has been busy patching women into seemingly all their games.
On the other hand, knowing Warscape you couldn't simulate proper "collision" anyway, so it'd be more like mass dry humping.
 

Beowulf

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[...]
No navies - Pardon my lack of education on the subject, but who had any navy to speak of in that region, in that period? Any known cases of naval battles around the 9th century British isles?
[...]

So, apparently there is a possibility to have naval battles. It will be just battles with automatically created transport fleets.
 

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I never assumed it would be different. I thought Kyl here also knew that, and that his argument was specifically about buildable navies, which are not armies transporting over sea. That kind of navies I think are overkill in this period.
 

Beowulf

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Ah, my bad. I somehow construed this as - the naval battles will be disabled, period.
 

fantadomat

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Does anyone know if this game features a tasteful rape mechanic for the Viking factions? Not having one would certainly be immersion breaking
CA are terrible when it comes to immersion mate. No slave mechanics,not naval mechanics,no connection with the outside world(mainly Scandinavia),no river moving and raiding,no religions and cultures. It will be bare bones conquest game with tedious mechanics that hamper the conquest.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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That kind of navies I think are overkill in this period.

A pair of longships fighting is really not so different from a pair of triremes going at it. The only difference is that you'd have to be insane to sail with a ram in the ocean. The Great Heathen Army had hundreds of warships and these were absolutely more than just transports. So having longship battles is no more ridiculous than having bireme and trireme battles in Rome: TW. Wessex would have fallen without its navy. Five factions in this game absolutely had navies; that's half of them. Alfred personally designed ships that were taller and longer in order to give his navy an advantage over the Danes in fights at sea. Not only is there evidence of naval battles, you even have a sound historical basis for a naval tech tree in this period.

I don't see what's so crazy about this.
 

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https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/04/30/a-total-war-saga-thrones-of-britannia-review/

Wot I Think – A Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

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From my vantage point, there’s something enchanting about the snow-capped palisades of Dinefwr. Although I imagine its majesty is somewhat lost on the seven hundred exhausted Welshmen I’ve just ordered to breach the stronghold’s walls, with nothing but battered wooden shields between them and a typical British forecast of flaming arrows. I’d like to pretend their sacrifices come at the bitter end of a long, failed diplomatic campaign. Truthfully though, like so much of the conflict in history, they had something shiny, and I decided I wanted it.

This is Total War, however, so before navigating the perils of battle, it’s necessary to navigate the perils of the labyrinthine UI. Helms off to Creative Assembly for making it not only workable, but attractive. Drop down menus make shuffling through armies and provinces intuitive, which you’ll come to appreciate. The exclusive focus on the extremely disunited kingdom means a smaller landmass, but densely populated provinces with multiple settlements, each of which can be built up to provide different resources or research paths. It really pops, too. The stained glass and wood carving motif reinforces the sense that you’re writing your personal legend into history, which means it’s always fun to imagine the glassworker who has to immortalise your brutal pillaging in glittering detail.

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Thrones of Britannia includes ten different factions split evenly across five cultures. There’s two each for English, Welsh, and Gaelic. There’s also four Viking factions. Two for the regular land vikings and two for the Viking Sea Kings, an aspirational title if ever there was one. Not only can my enemies get in the sea, they can also pay me a tribute for the privilege of drowning.

A narrative thread running through each campaign influences the direction of the early turns, but so do the faction-specific rules. Welsh factions are bloody heroic, they are, so ranking up heroes and owning Welsh land grants bonuses. The Sea Kings collect tribute from other factions, and also take slaves after battle. Common to all factions is a meter tracking your populace’s War Fervour. Your people might cheerlead a few victories, but years of seeing their countrymen march off to war and never return will eventually take its toll on their happiness.

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Faction-specific units are few, so personality comes from unit specialities. West Seaxe has some seriously nasty late game cavalry, for example, and a few units of Welsh archers with flaming arrows will make short work of an approaching siege tower. Those coming from Total Warhammer might be disappointed that the most novel thing on offer here is units of ferocious war dogs, but it’s still satisfying to watch a charge of pugilistic puppers who’ve just decided the opposing frontline have biscuits in their pockets.

You bolster the ranks of your army from a universal pool that can be accessed from any owned settlement, regardless of buildings. The disadvantage of marching into the pub and thrusting a spear in the hand of whoever hasn’t passed out already is that units are recruited at a quarter total strength. A number of factors affects replenishment, but generally, it makes forethought and planning an absolute necessity. Early on, I made the mistake of leaving weak borders unguarded, and had to make do with hastily cobbled together levy spearmen to defend against sieges. Initially weak units also mean that attrition can be a serious problem, as starvation or seasickness devastates an already threadbare force.

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Playing as Alfred of West Seaxe, starting with so many provinces also made loyalty and betrayal a very real concern. Options for subterfuge are many, but a real drain on your coin stash. More reliable is gifting your disloyal underlings one of the estates you’ll accrue during your time spent painting the map your colour. Marriages, dishonor, and getting stabby are all at your disposal, providing you have the coin to pay for it, and the influence to deal with the potential ramifications.

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Character progression comes in the form of retinues, which are basically just a group of lads so enamoured with your kingly beard that they follow you o’er hill and vale, begging for hot grooming tips. Each time a character levels up, you’re given a point to either add a new follower or upgrade an existing one. If you’re planning on having an army steamroll through a few rival provinces, add a champion for command and charging bonuses, and a quartermaster to increase movement range. Combine a forager and a pillager, and play havoc with the enemy food supplies while nabbing a gold bonus every time you reduce a stately manse to matchsticks. Governor eyeing up your table scraps? Priests keep them loyal, and scribes scrounge up extra cash.

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There’s also siege engineers, and whether you decide to take them or not, siege combat is where Thrones of Britannia shines like a stolen crown. Major settlements are distinct and memorable, displaying the same density and detail as the rest of the map. Moats, islands, bridges, and wide city streets means plotting and executing multi-tiered master plans is endlessly satisfying. War drums echo like thunder, pipes make pipe noises, and siege engines tear up soil in a stunning iteration of the venerable series’ trademark spectacle.

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Coming down from these moments, however, the cracks can sometimes show themselves. Abstracted systems are a necessary albatross in strategy of this scale, but after the dynamism of the tactical battles, things like automatic trade routes and simple tech trees can feel like poor representations of the political and social machinations they aim to simulate. After a few stretches hitting the ‘end turn’ button after not doing very much of anything, it becomes apparent that Thrones of Britannia’s streamlining may have come at the cost of some of the series’ intrigue.

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It’s also worth noting that, on standard difficulty with an easy starting faction, I was able to breeze through the campaign to an ultimate victory in a single night of play. For the last quarter of this campaign, I was at a constant food deficit, frequently bankrupt, and pretty much shrugging off both diplomacy and my own populace. Trickier factions have much more precarious early games, of course, but it was a little disappointing to be able to brute force my way through so many hindrances. Thrones of Britannia’s many systems started to feel like optional indulges, rather than tactical necessities. On the plus side, commanding an unstoppable legion of red caped bastards is probably the closest I’ve come to feeling like Tywin Lannister, so there’s that.

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After the clattering of hooves and the din of hoarse war chants, it can feel odd to return to a tactical overlay that, while occasionally tense, can often feel vacant of meaningful choice. It’s all focused firmly towards evoking the period though, and here, Creative Assembly’s love for history absolutely bleeds through. Or would, I guess, if there was any blood in the game. There’s a greyed out ‘DLC’ tab on the main menu, though. Make of that one what you will.

A Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia is released May 3 on Steam for £29.99/$39.99
 

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https://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-saga-thrones-of-britannia-review/

TOTAL WAR SAGA: THRONES OF BRITANNIA REVIEW

Total War Saga games, of which this is the first, are smaller standalone games that hone in on a flashpoint in history. This time it's the age of Alfred the Great, King of the Anglo-Saxons and historical celebrity. It's fertile ground for a Total War romp, with the British Isles heaving with people who really don't like one another, especially the kings. And there are a lot of them. How many kings could you really fit in Britain, you're perhaps wondering. The answer is loads. Too many, really. Hence all the wars.

The assassination attempt on my king, Áed of Circenn, splintered the alliance of Scottish kingdoms that had previously been united against the Vikings. All of Scotland then erupted in war. It actually worked out, giving me—the terrible pragmatist that I am—an excuse to swallow up all of my one-time allies and consolidate my power. With everyone at one another's throats, I was able to pick them off one at a time, Vikings included.

Each of the ten playable factions is part of a cultural group that comes with certain allegiances and grudges. The Vikings might not always get along, but when the Gaels rise up against them, you'd better believe they team up, or at least get pressed into service by the most powerful king. How long that lasts depends on how long the king can keep his vassals and nobles happy, or how quickly he can kill troublemakers.

With everyone being at a similar technological level and fielding visually indistinguishable bearded warriors, they're not as obviously different as the Romans and Germanic tribes (or the Empire and the Orcs), but each has a mechanical hook that helps make them stand out in a lineup. Viking Dyflin dabbles in the nauseating slave trade, West Seaxe hosts Witans that determine the kingdom's future, while Circenn has a legitimacy system that encourages leaders to placate the north by going out and doing great deeds, usually at the end of a spear.

King's quest
Unique events and story missions offer up more flavour while having a knock-on effect, drawing in other kingdoms. Circenn kings can hunt for the Stone of Destiny, for example—a coronation bauble that Scotland and England have argued over for centuries. The hunt is a quest that, much like Warhammer's, sends armies all across the map in search of glory and treasure (and, of course, lots of battles). The quest forces Circenn to occupy several settlements, however, kickstarting little wars all over the islands.

These events also appear for AI kingdoms, creating a lively map where major crises play out whether you're involved or not, though you'll usually hear about it either way. While you're getting in fights with the Welsh, the Viking kingdoms to the west might be joining forces to pay the Gaels back for attacking one of their settlements, while everyone up in Northumbria is kicking up a fuss over their murdered monarch.

As the undisputed ruler of Scotland, I was getting ready to enjoy the fruits of my labour. Some of my subjects didn't appreciate being conquered, however, and a small band of rebels managed to cause a ruckus and take over a town. In the battle to reclaim it, the king died carving a path to the heart of the settlement. The rebellion was crushed, but only a few turns later the whole kingdom imploded as nobles rose up against his heir.

Holding onto my kingdom proved to be a lot trickier than building it. Thrones of Britannia's kingdoms and borders are fluid, with wars, uprisings and politicking forcing the archipelago to constantly shift. Old kingdoms once thought long gone can reappear, while powerful nations can be shattered in a few years. In the early game, when there are still five kings for every person, the cavalcade of events and battles means that it's never not interesting, in stark contrast to the victory conditions that become the focus later.

To the victor
There are seven victory conditions in Thrones of Britannia. Long and short conquest victories return, tasking players with gobbling up a specific number of provinces, but they're joined by two types of fame and kingdom victories, as well as an ultimate victory that can only be achieved once you've completed another long victory and defeated an invading fleet that's determined by your faction. The new additions aren't great.

Fame victories are especially hollow. All you need to do is generate fame by simply playing the game, and not even well. Fight, build stuff and just generally engage with Total War and you'll end up winning. Kingdom victories, on the other hand, are basically the same as conquest victories, but instead of conquering everyone, you've also got to conquer some specific provinces, their number depending on the faction.

As the Anglo-Saxons, I achieved two victories by turn 30. In turn 20, the King of Miede died and I inherited the entire kingdom, instantly giving me a kingdom victory. I'd done nothing. Ten turns later, I also got a fame victory, though I'd not been aiming for it. It means that if you're playing as a large, established kingdom already, you're only a few turns from technically winning, absent any satisfaction. The solution, you might think, would be aiming for the ultimate victory.

With two victories behind me, I found myself in a rut. I had countless vassals, more money and food than I could waste, and nobody who could stand up to me. There were still uprisings, but they were just small things compared to the wars I'd already fought. I started manufacturing problems. I adopted an ambitious noble, who started causing trouble because he thought he also deserved to be the heir to the throne. I was making purposefully terrible decisions just to occupy myself. This wasn't the case with every faction, though. I spent well over 200 turns leading Circenn before I ran out of engaging things to do. Even that's a problem. There was no impetus to conquer the rest of Britain.

The events and unique missions that should have been spurring me on and firing me up to go on another war-bender dried up, leaving me waiting for the ultimate victory and the promise of one last, titanic clash. My enthusiasm had petered out by the time the ships arrived.

It's disappointing to end a game on such a sour note, especially when Thrones of Britannia brings with it a lot of positive changes that I hope will be continued through future Total War games, and not just the Saga series. For all of its tweaks, it often drills down into what's great about Total War as a series. For a long time Total War has been stuffed to the gills with systems that can sometimes get in the way of a good scrap. Leader progression, building chains and agents have consistently become more elaborate and diverting. Thrones of Britannia is comparatively neater. Creative Assembly has liberally sheared off agents, trade and military buildings, weaving the mechanics once attached to them into other systems. It's both slicker and more cohesive than any of its predecessors, though the streamlining does make some parts of the game feel perfunctory.

Most of Thrones of Britannia's intermingling and streamlining of systems feels like progress, though. Pour one out for agents, because they're completely gone. Only in Warhammer has it felt like agents—or heroes—offered enough to make it worth putting up with what terrible pests they are. But even though they've been cut, agent abilities are now replicated by leaders.

Eschewing both Rome II and Warhammer's skill trees, leaders now develop exclusively through traits and followers. Traits once again appear over time, based on how a leader acts (or doesn't act), as well as their environment. Keep a leader inside a settlement with a library, and they'll become more scholarly. If they win a decisive victory, they'll be able to command more respect and throw their weight around more.

Followers, on the other hand, are dramatically different. Instead of being random hangers-on that leaders collect, they are manually unlocked when a leader levels up. If you want them to be more loyal and less likely to start a civil war, for instance, then you should give them a priest. Much like an agent in previous Total War games, the priest will also decrease public order in enemy territory. This removal of superfluous units from the campaign map makes sense for a faster-paced Total War such as Thrones of Britannia, although I'm not convinced that this alternative to agents is quite a one-size-fits-all deal.

While agents are out, there are still plenty of other units just itching to be recruited, a process that has changed considerably. Waiting for an army to finish recruiting is not a particularly fun way to spend a few turns, so Thrones of Britannia gives you one instantly. If you've got the cash and food to support 20 units, then you can get all of them straight away. They won't, however, have a full complement of troops. It's the skeleton of an army, filling up over time as new troops arrive. Instead of being stuck in a settlement, it can move around, get in fights and even go off and do a spot of conquering.

So much busywork is cut out. There's no more constructing the same archery ranges and barracks over and over again, or trudging armies halfway across the map to reinforce a village where, for some reason, nobody can learn how to hold a bow without this one very specific building. There's definitely an argument that some of the need to plan out a long-term strategy is reduced when you can summon an army almost anywhere in your territory, but there's still a significant cost, both upfront and in the maintenance of the army. And since it takes a few turns for them to muster enough men to get to full strength, they won't be tough enough to handle an an enemy force that's actually prepared.

Even if you've got fat coffers and a population that's hungry for a fight—people can get tired of constant warring, eventually, reducing public order—you're not going to be able to keep all of your settlements safe. Thrones of Britannia's map is incredibly dense, with potential targets rarely more than a couple of turns away from each other. Armies can rapidly swallow up territory, especially since most settlements are undefended villages that support the main fortified towns. These places make for particularly tempting morsels for raiders, as the lack of a garrison makes them easy to sack. It's thematically rather appropriate for a game rich in musky Vikings, but more than that, it creates new ways to put pressure on an enemy, denying them much-needed resources. If they're occupied, they can also become potential staging posts where armies can gain a foothold and seek shelter during winter.

Reinventing history
Thrones of Britannia doesn't quite go back to the drawing board when it comes to the real-time brawls, but it does reconsider several things, along with bringing back welcome features like guard mode and formations. Shields get a lot of time in the spotlight this time around, and they can be used to completely halt cavalry charges and more effectively protect against assaults of pesky, eye-gouging arrows.

Once the initial cavalry charges have been repelled, however, the battles largely play out the same way they did in Attila. Critical hits mean that a lucky shot can kill an enemy outright, while warriors will now stand closer together so they can huddle behind the shield wall. But these, much like several other tweaks to combat, don't noticeably change the tempo or tactics.

The subtler differences between Attila and Thrones of Britannia may become more apparent in multiplayer, but there's less of an impetus to get into the nitty gritty when playing against the AI. On the default difficulty the computer is a bit overzealous, committing almost everything to a big push, only occasionally hiding units in forests or embarking on sneakier strategies. On the campaign map, the AI is quick to take advantage of the weak points in your kingdom's defences and retreat when it's bitten off more than it can chew, but it struggles more when it's on the defensive.

In several battles during my first game, the AI got rather confused and let me walk to victory. In one case, the entire enemy force got so spooked by the cavalry that appeared behind them that they started pacing on the spot until they decided to charge at my army, one unit at a time, until they routed. In another, an indecisive fleet couldn't pick between two landing areas and, instead, sailed between them for the entire battle, allowing me to conquer a city nearly unopposed. Several of these AI cock-ups happened in quick succession, but haven't appeared since, after several days of playing.

Thrones of Britannia is the most unusual historical Total War instalment since 2010's Napoleon. Though it's still a historical Total War right down to its core, it feels like every feature must have been on the chopping block at one time or another. It's bold and surprising, but it's also a game that's often at odds with itself. It attempts to condense the Total War experience, throwing everyone into conflict and cranking up the pace, but it does little to stop the significant lulls that can happen in the mid and late game. Indeed, while the events and busy map initially make this one of the most engaging games in the series, it can suddenly devolve into one of the dullest once some of the pieces have been knocked off the board.

THE VERDICT
73

TOTAL WAR: THRONES OF BRITANNIA
A brilliant early game and bold experiments almost make up for the AI niggles and the boring march to the final battle.
 

AwesomeButton

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It's remarkable that they have criticized it. Let's see how long until it shows up on principisenpatrena.org
 

Raghar

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DNVB6el.jpg

Folks nearly all streamers got theirs key and streamed it, and nobody complained about this? Look at these UGLY character and unit portraits.

This is so horrible. So bad. How can they force a talented painter to make on purpose bad image, that would tarnish his renomee.

Wait, this is low resolution, it looks MUCH worse in 1920x1080.
 

Beowulf

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I've seen some people commenting on it, but then again - I'm not that interested to watch streams or read about new CA title.
There will be no surprise - the CAI will be either braindead, or have enough crutches to do ridiculous things and so make the campaign boring in the long therm; and BAI will be as braindead as in the recent titles.

Regarding the art - I guess they want to have a cohesive artstyle in the UI, just take a look at this (video at the bottom of the article): https://www.totalwar.com/blog/thrones-of-britannia-narrative
Apparently they wanted to mimic the art of the period...
 

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The unit card(!) pictures are just fine. An icon is easier to recognize than a unit model's render downsized to fit. Even if it's a problem, it's the least of the game's problems, since it has to be the easiest thing to mod.
 

Beowulf

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Regarding the art - I guess they want to have a cohesive artstyle in the UI, just take a look at this (video at the bottom of the article): https://www.totalwar.com/blog/thrones-of-britannia-narrative
Apparently they wanted to mimic the art of the period...
I tried to find the art in the period, everything I found was looking MUCH better. (Aside of India art. But that's expected.)

I agree, their art style looks like a colourful comic to me.
Re. unit cards - I think they look much better and functional than the default Rome II ones.
 

Raghar

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garm23r.jpg

This is properly looking.

I dislike idea that large company should release ugly looking stuff with idea that modders would fix it. The whole art represents the company.

UI look and feel is large part of game development, and a company that releases games for over 15 years should take sufficient care about that part.
 

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It's a designer decision, and it makes sense. The pretty and detailed models are already on the screen. The HUD icons don't need to compete, or the overall design will become overburdened.
 

Burning Bridges

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It's a designer decision, and it makes sense.

and it looks shit, and for 75% of the people it will be the first thing they want to mod.

This is not even worth rational arguments anymore. When I look at all this shit that TW has become the only thing I want to do is take a club and beat them until they wake up.
 

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