Touhou Touhou series

[Niektory]

UFO managed to be too annoying even for me. It's the only one where I didn't go for the Extra Stage.

I've been playing ESPGaluda in short bursts for some time now, and I think I can get a 1CC without much trouble.

I played that one too. But I sucked at it. Wasn't even close to a 1cc.

Maybe I'll also do the Extra Stage in MoF or IN as well... Niektory, which of them is more fun?

Hmm, I'm not sure. If I had to choose, I think I like IN's Extra more. MoF's Extra is easier though.

BTW, not going to try PCB's Phantasm Stage? Or did you have enough after Ran?

 

[Jasede]

Except, of course, Ketsui is so fucking hard just getting past the third stage is a feat in itself, bombs or not.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Touhou is obviously harder than Ketsui because there are more bullets on the screen.

I've been playing ESPGaluda in short bursts for some time now, and I think I can get a 1CC without much trouble.

I played that one too. But I sucked at it. Wasn't even close to a 1cc.

Eh, getting to Stage 5 on one credit is pretty good. Just need to figure out a decent route through stages 4-6, score enough to get the 14M extend, get consistent at the more tricky boss patterns, and you're good to go. Game is mostly about reaching the final boss with enough resources to power through his shit.

Maybe I'll also do the Extra Stage in MoF or IN as well... Niektory, which of them is more fun?

Hmm, I'm not sure. If I had to choose, I think I like IN's Extra more. MoF's Extra is easier though.

BTW, not going to try PCB's Phantasm Stage? Or did you have enough after Ran?

I've beaten Yukari using a boss rush patch, so starting with 2 lives 3 bombs. The Phantasm Stage is possibly my most hated thing in the entire series (I was frustrated enough with Extra), and I'm not planning to spend any more time with it unless I find myself in a very masochistic mood.

Tried the MoF Extra Stage, seems allright, on the easier side but I'll take that over the bullshit in PCB.

 

[Jasede]

I don't find the Phantasm stage that bad. It's honestly one of my favorites.

 

[Niektory]

Just need to figure out a decent route through stages 4-6, score enough to get the 14M extend, get consistent at the more tricky boss patterns, and you're good to go.

If you were trying to make it sound easy, you failed.
Still, maybe I'll try again one of these days.

I've beaten Yukari using a boss rush patch, so starting with 2 lives 3 bombs. The Phantasm Stage is possibly my most hated thing in the entire series (I was frustrated enough with Extra), and I'm not planning to spend any more time with it unless I find myself in a very masochistic mood.

Tried the MoF Extra Stage, seems allright, on the easier side but I'll take that over the bullshit in PCB.

You hated it, eh? We really do have opposite taste, don't we?
The only Extra which crossed my masochist threshold was EoSD. I'm not sure if I liked it or hated it. Both, I think.
MoF's Extra is quite relaxing since you can bomb pretty much for free a few times and attacks tend to be on the slow side. Very low on the bullshit scale.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Maybe my problem with PCB's Extra/Phantasm is how I insist on reaching max power really fast and picking up nearly all point items. I spend a lot of time near the point of collection in the first half of the stage, pointblanking stuff with ReimuB, and it's really easy to die from small mistakes while doing that. I am also really bad at Chen/Ran's first midboss attack. Maybe I should just bomb all the bullshit in the stage and be done with it? Not like I desperately need those bombs for Yukari, 6 lives is more than enough resources.

I have to say that I really dislike having to start with low Power in Extra stages, so the MoF one earned some good will just by starting me off with 4.00 Power.

On EspGaluda, maybe my perception of it is coloured by having 1CCd Blue Wish Resurrection Plus (a freeware Cave-like shmup with really bad graphics) earlier this month, as that game had much scarier stages with less resources to bruteforce them. I got through Stage 5 of EspGaluda with 1 death the first time I reached it, just by abusing the slow mode and maybe bombing once. EspGaluda bosses also have some patterns which are kinda reminiscent of Touhou in that they look scary and weird, but end up just being simple streaming or moving along a fixed path.

 

[Jasede]

Blue Wish Resurrection is like ten times easier than EspGaluda, which is considered the "easy" Cave shmup. I think I 1CC'd it first try.

Fuck the ??? boss though. Love his music though.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Jasede did you remember to disable autobomb? With autobomb it's ridiculously easy because you basically get like 15+ lives. When played with a reasonable amount of resources, I found it more difficult than EspGaluda.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah! But did you play with or without slowdown? And what difficulty? On normal I found it more than reasonable. The patterns are fast but not hard. They just require skill, you don't have to memorize anything.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Played on Original, first with slowdown on, and then off. Honestly, not a big fan of slowdown in general, it always feels like shit to me, and I often die when patterns arbitrarily speed up after a slowdown phase. In BWRP there are only a few patterns where it really helps, most of the time it's on the annoying side.

One thing that Cave games, even the easier ones, have over BWRP is that they tend to have disproportionately difficult final bosses. Meanwhile, the Stage 5 boss in BWRP is a total pushover.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

In other news, MoF Extra is shit after all. Not the stage, which is easy, and can be spam bombed anyway. The boss just has way too much gimmicky crap. I'm not completely opposed to weirdness and gimmicks, but seriously, there's like three spellcards which require actual dodging. Everything else is either a gimmick that you just learn how to deal with, or squeezing through hitbox-wide bullet walls. It's not even hard, just not very fun.

And the final attack is pure hate, evil crisscrossing bullets that I can't deal with. It's like the worst phase of Hourai Elixir turned into its own spellcard.

 

[Crooked Bee]

This news may be of interest to fellow touhoutards

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/04/09/touhou-official-english-translation/

Bullet Hell Touhou Series Coming To English For First Time

Before Minecraft, Touhou was the only indie game I’d ever seen toys for in a high street shop. The long-running series of bullet hell shooters are dōjin soft created by a developer known as ZUN, whose prolificacy has led to 23 games plus a world of books, comics, music, figurines, pillows, unofficial fan games and more.

Of course, that aforementioned shop was in Japan, since the Touhou games have never been officially released in English. Playism are now planning on changing that with Touhou 14: Double Dealing Character [wiki page].

And here's the official announcement:

Hey everyone!

It’s been a long time coming, and while a lot of Playism fans have guessed it was inevitable, everyone likes an official announcement: Touhou is officially coming to Playism EN (and sooner than you think)!

That’s right! With the upcoming release of Touhou 14: Double Dealing Character, we’re kicking open the floodgates and introducing Touhou to the English speaking world. This will mark the very first official release of a Touhou title in English speaking territories.

The Touhou Project, now helmed solely by creator Zun, was first started in 1995 with its first release: Highly Responsive to Prayers. After a three year absence following the release of the 5th Touhou title, Zun finally returned to Touhou, formed Team Shanghai Alice, and continued to work on the series independently.

Since then, the Touhou series has become a cult favorite among gamers around the world, has had countless games using the series’ characters, and become a veritable phenomenon in the doujin gaming scene.

We’re absolutely thrilled to be working with Team Shanghai Alice to bring Touhou to western shores, and we at Playism hope you’re as excited as we are to see Touhou finally see the light of day in the West!

Dying for a release date? We’ll be releasing more info about Touhou’s big debut soon! Keep your eyes peeled to the Playism blog, our Twitter and Facebook for upcoming info!

http://playism-games.com/article/touhou-finally-coming-to-the-west

 

[Cowboy Moment]

This news may be of interest to fellow touhoutards

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/04/09/touhou-official-english-translation/

Bullet Hell Touhou Series Coming To English For First Time

Before Minecraft, Touhou was the only indie game I’d ever seen toys for in a high street shop. The long-running series of bullet hell shooters are dōjin soft created by a developer known as ZUN, whose prolificacy has led to 23 games plus a world of books, comics, music, figurines, pillows, unofficial fan games and more.

Of course, that aforementioned shop was in Japan, since the Touhou games have never been officially released in English. Playism are now planning on changing that with Touhou 14: Double Dealing Character [wiki page].

And here's the official announcement:

Hey everyone!

It’s been a long time coming, and while a lot of Playism fans have guessed it was inevitable, everyone likes an official announcement: Touhou is officially coming to Playism EN (and sooner than you think)!

That’s right! With the upcoming release of Touhou 14: Double Dealing Character, we’re kicking open the floodgates and introducing Touhou to the English speaking world. This will mark the very first official release of a Touhou title in English speaking territories.

The Touhou Project, now helmed solely by creator Zun, was first started in 1995 with its first release: Highly Responsive to Prayers. After a three year absence following the release of the 5th Touhou title, Zun finally returned to Touhou, formed Team Shanghai Alice, and continued to work on the series independently.

Since then, the Touhou series has become a cult favorite among gamers around the world, has had countless games using the series’ characters, and become a veritable phenomenon in the doujin gaming scene.

We’re absolutely thrilled to be working with Team Shanghai Alice to bring Touhou to western shores, and we at Playism hope you’re as excited as we are to see Touhou finally see the light of day in the West!

Dying for a release date? We’ll be releasing more info about Touhou’s big debut soon! Keep your eyes peeled to the Playism blog, our Twitter and Facebook for upcoming info!

http://playism-games.com/article/touhou-finally-coming-to-the-west

Cool. I guess I'll buy it once it comes out, given how I've enjoyed a good part of the series and paid for none of it. However, given my experiences with SA and UFO, I'm not really expecting to enjoy the game.

 

[Nikaido]

DDC is nothing like SA and UFO. It even went back to the classic continue that doesn't reset level progression. If anything, it feels like it was trying too hard to avoid the directions set by those games, because resource gathering is too easy in DDC. And one of the characters, MarisaB and her bomb, turns that resource gathering system into infinite lives pretty much.

I find it highly likely that you'd like the game (but probably not as in "my top 3") if you hated SA/UFO.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Well, from what I know about the resource system in DDC, it seems kinda like what you'd get if you removed ufos from UFO. Autocollect lots of stuff at once, get bombs/lives. Which does sound quite nice. Honestly, the resource system in SA is allright, it's just that, combined with the stage design, it encourages just sitting on the bottom of the screen and dodging bullets. In that sense, UFO basically jumps to the other extreme, where it all but requires aggressive, risky play in order to get resources. Which, honestly, would be fine, if the ufo system weren't so cumbersome. The game feels like it needs one more button to help manage the tokens somehow, either to help get the ones you want, or get rid of the ones you don't.

Honestly, I'm a bit confused as to whether ZUN is actually experimenting with the systems in every game in an attempt to find the best one, or if he just likes changing things for the sake of it.

 

[Niektory]

I wouldn't lump SA and UFO together. I think SA has more in common with MoF, because of the power=bombs thing. Which I liked, it made power actually important, it's pretty marginal in the other games.

I agree that ambulanceUFO-chasing is annoying. They like staying just-out-of-reach, bouncing away or changing colors at the last moment, making me rage. And then come the curved bullets. I just can't help but feel being trolled by this game.

DDC's system is pretty good apart from the fact that it's fairly easy to get life fragments by bombing. But you'll still go above the POC often for bomb fragments, so there's a nice risk/reward mechanic, and the stages are fun.
The game is good. Will d1p.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

MoF and SA do get props for being the only shmups I've played (which admittedly, is not that many) where the Power mechanic is actually something beyond an annoying additional punishment for death. That said, bombing was way too easy in MoF, and kind of strange in SA in that the cost could be very different depending on where you were in the game. I think that you need better stage design than ZUN's average to make this kind of mechanic work. Would've liked to see Cave take a swing at it.

As for UFO and SA, I lumped them together since I see their failings (which are very different) as a result of ZUN going up his own arse a bit too far and just putting in stuff without giving much thought as to how fun it would be to actually play. Main difference being that I actually do enjoy playing UFO, as in, the stages and bosses, while SA I didn't find very fun on a basic level. I just wish the UFO system wasn't so.... overbearing. I feel like it dominates the gameplay too much for something that just gives extra lives and bombs.

 

[Nikaido]

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/22976576/
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom

A playable demo is due to be released May 10, 2015, at Reitaisai 12.
There are four main characters: Reimu Hakurei, Marisa Kirisame, Sanae Kochiya, and Reisen Udongein Inaba. Before release, ZUN noted big changes to the gameplay, which would be "very different" (though still retaining core shmup fundamentals). He also made mention of the challenge and difficulty in implementing these changes, especially in time for the demo's release.

Touhou 15 announced

 

[Nikaido]

The demo's been out for a while and damn, this might easily become my favorite Touhou, it gets real serious real fast. Stage 3 boss is more vile than SA's Stage 5 Orin, you better have some solid reaction time. Stages past stage 1 are a lot more intense than the usual starter stages. Instead of a defined midboss encounter, the stage boss is harassing you throughout the stage appearing at multiple points using a few attacks similar to what they'll do at the end (which is already starting to feel painful in Stage 3).
Boss patterns require a lot more active dodging (rather than regular streaming) around than usual.
The game encourages grazing more than usual, it slows down the fall of the resources when you're grazing which makes collecting a breeze as long as you spend 99% of your time hugging bullets. I think the new system will please Cowboy because it feels like a fixed version of what was intended for SA, it's giving you both an incentive for grazing and one for reaching the top.
I can't wait to see what Zun has cooked up for the latter stages and bosses. This game doesn't seem to feature the same kind of difficulty curve from before, with things getting very progressively harder. This one is eager to slap you in the face and doesn't feel like waiting it out.

The only thing disappointing about the demo is the new character. Instead of giving you a new flavor/shot type to pick from, it feels more like a character designed for people who don't play shmups. She has an overpowered bomb that 1/ removes bullets around you on activation 2/ allows you to get hit 3 more times by stuff after that. As for her shot types.. high spread, almost covering the whole screen when unfocused, high penetration concentrated bullet hits when focused (passes through enemies). She's basically a cheat mode character.

 

[Jasede]

Oooh, thanks for letting us know! Downloadan'

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Nikaido, you failed to mention the new default gameplay mode, which probably also caused the increase in difficulty (as it doesn't require consistent performance, and instead favors actually being able to "capture" stuff within a few attempts). I think it's the single biggest change in the series, or in the Windows games at least.

But yeah, I like the resource/scoring system in legacy mode. You need to balance grazing and killing enemies in order to get enough points for a bomb fragment, and extends are score-based again as well, though it remains to be seen how hard you'll have to try in order to get all of them. Items falling very slowly while you're close to a bullet seems like a less extreme version of SA's grazing for autocollect, which was something I actually liked about that game, so that makes me happy.

I haven't tried playing as Reisen, but I was under the impression that her bomb made your hitbox larger? Most people I've read seem to think she's a scoring character rather than overpowered.

 

[Nikaido]

That's because I'm not sure what I think of that new mode myself. I'm not one of these pro players who can reach the highest scores ever, so having a goal like doing a 1cc of shmups is always a good motivation. But if you're not a top scorer, what can motivate you in said new mode? Having an infinite amount of try breaks the game for players who are good enough to get past those patterns after getting a better understanding, but not good enough to 1cc games on their first attempt. Anyway I'm not going to touch it until I 1cc Legacy on the final release of the game.

How does Zun even consider handling the unlocking of extra in that new game anyway? Never die, not even once, in the new game mode? set a fixed number of retry after which you'll lose the ability to unlock if you continue without restarting? or use the scoring system and require a certain amount of score?

As for Reisen's hitbox, it doesn't really matter when it's shielding you for goddamn 3 times which is all that is needed to get past some of the worse stuff. I think it's a much more useful bomb all around than the others.

 

[Jasede]

Apparently the file I downloaded was some funny guy making an archive filled with .mp4 files. Anyone have a working link? I mean, it's a demo, it should be pretty easy to find, you'd think.

 

[Nikaido]

https://mega.co.nz/#!WY1VUALB!y5VVPPOUnHgpXTaU7JrGjBzcZqx3yc333m0EX2np04M

 

[Jasede]

...

how did the art get worse? It looks like MS Paint Oekaki!

Edit: fuck this is hard for "Hard" - which mode am I supposed to use, Legacy? What's the difference?