Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zdzisiu]

But now they can get into their holes in combat so for a character that is not that good at throwing the quest is annoying because you initiate the fight, throw you net, they evade and run to the the hole, you end combat, grab the net, walk away a bit, wait for the combat start cooldown to go away, hoppers get out, you initiate combat, throw net, they evade, you fucking smash something on your desk.

You are doing it wrong. Wait a bit away from a hole. Hopper comes out. Immediately initiate combat. Walk next to hopper and use cage on it. Hopper is in cage. Repeat until quest solved.

You... you dont need to entangle them to catch them? You can just use the cage on them? Fuck, I feel reaaaally dumb now.

 

[aleph]

You... you dont need to entangle them to catch them? You can just use the cage on them? Fuck, I feel reaaaally dumb now.

The nets are only necessary to keep them from running away. And since the hoppers can't move away in turn-based mode when it is not their turn, they are easy prey.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Assault Rifle Specialist

I couldn't resist starting another new character since the recent patch. I decided this time to go with an Assault Rifle specialist, a role which I had found slightly lackluster in the past compared to e.g. the dexterous SMG wielder. The AR in Underrail is certainly the most versatile of the firearm options when it comes to character creation. Unlike SMGs/Pistols which are arguably strongest with 10/10 DEX/PER or Sniper Rifles which are strongest with 10/10 PER/AGI, the AR gets the full benefit of its strengths with only 10/7 PER/STR.

A typical SMG/Pistol user looks like the following:
10 Dexterity (max every opportunity)
10 Perception
8 or 6/5 or 7/4 other stats

And a Sniper Rifle user doesn't look much different. But an AR specialist can have all sorts of attribute distributions.

Assault Rifle Attributes

Commando
10 Perception (max)
7 Strength
9 Agility
5 Dexterity

The Commando infiltrates with strong Stealth, laying mines and traps at strategic points. He exfiltrates by walking smugly out the front door after tossing a flashbang and bringing freedom to his enemies half a clip at a time.

Army of One
10 Perception (max)
8 Strength
10 Will

There is no technique of war unknown to the Army of One. He takes full control of every engagement, using the most efficient means to dispose of his foes. Their weapons cannot penetrate his armor. Their lines cannot withstand his onslaught.

The Punisher
10 Perception
9 Strength
5 Constitution
7 Intelligence

The finest selection of weapons, tweaked to perfection. An array of versatile armors, chosen for the situation. And all the Molotovs and flashbangs he can carry. Si vis pacem, para bellum.


These are just some examples - experiment!

Assault Rifles as a weapon are about three things in Underrail - burst fire, high per-bullet damage, and ranged accuracy. The combination of these three is what makes the AR excel in comparison to the other firearms. There are some feats we can use to enhance these greatly, so that our strengths in combat will shine brightly.

Feats

Expertise: It won't seem like much early on, but when you're level ~10 the enemies will be feeling the pain. High-caliber ammunition + burst fire + Expertise. Kevlar be damned.

Suppressive Fire (req 10 Guns, 6 Per): This feat seems rather middling at first glance, but it can be extremely powerful if used properly. The cone is massive and hits enemies at extreme distances from the character. The most dangerous foes an AR specialist will face (long-range weapons like crossbows/snipers) are hurt the most by this, as they will spend their precious MP and AP moving closer to counteract the accuracy penalty - closer so you can burst fire them down next round. An AR specialist is going to burst fire almost every round, so this feat certainly will not be put to waste.

Gun Nut (req 7 Int, 15 Mechanics): Get your 9mm barrels out, gentlemen. This feat on an AR with a large caliber is simply fantastic.

Full Auto (req 7 Str, 40 Guns): You burst fire almost every round. The immense onslaught of damage will cripple and shred your enemies.

Concentrated Fire (req 8 Per, 60 Guns): As if your 9mm bursts weren't doing enough damage, here's more to pile on. At close ranges, this feat makes an AR burst every bit as lethal as Cut Throat.

Commando (req 80 Guns): Trust me, you will almost always meet the condition to trigger this feat. Disgusting.

The combination of these feats makes for an extremely powerful burst fire. Expertise (dmg) + Gun Nut (dmg) + Full Auto (more bullets) + Concentrated Fire (dmg). Then Commando lets you do it all over again in the same turn - for free.

In addition, there is one piece of equipment that deserves special mention (though I haven't happened upon one yet in my current playthrough [Styg's punishment for my powergaming sins]). The Muzzle Brake addon adds 2 additional bullets to your burst. Burst fire is 5 bullets by default. Full Auto adds 2, up to 7. Muzzle brake adds 2 more, up to 9. Nine bullets doing compoundingly more damage (Concentrated Fire), with each bullet being buffed up by Expertise (+lvl in damage per bullet) and Gun Nut( ~10 damage per bullet). Meanwhile, everyone behind the meat you just shredded is debuffed by Suppressive Fire.

Destruction is its own kind of beauty.

 

[Sykar]

Why would a sniper rifle user have 10 dexterity and max it at every turn?

 

[Ellef]

Assault Rifle Specialist

Spoiler

I couldn't resist starting another new character since the recent patch. I decided this time to go with an Assault Rifle specialist, a role which I had found slightly lackluster in the past compared to e.g. the dexterous SMG wielder. The AR in Underrail is certainly the most versatile of the firearm options when it comes to character creation. Unlike SMGs/Pistols which are arguably strongest with 10/10 DEX/PER or Sniper Rifles which are strongest with 10/10 PER/AGI, the AR gets the full benefit of its strengths with only 10/7 PER/STR.

A typical SMG/Pistol user looks like the following:
10 Dexterity (max every opportunity)
10 Perception
8 or 6/5 or 7/4 other stats

And a Sniper Rifle user doesn't look much different. But an AR specialist can have all sorts of attribute distributions.

Assault Rifle Attributes

Commando
10 Perception (max)
7 Strength
9 Agility
5 Dexterity

The Commando infiltrates with strong Stealth, laying mines and traps at strategic points. He exfiltrates by walking smugly out the front door after tossing a flashbang and bringing freedom to his enemies half a clip at a time.

Army of One
10 Perception (max)
8 Strength
10 Will

There is no technique of war unknown to the Army of One. He takes full control of every engagement, using the most efficient means to dispose of his foes. Their weapons cannot penetrate his armor. Their lines cannot withstand his onslaught.

The Punisher
10 Perception
9 Strength
5 Constitution
7 Intelligence

The finest selection of weapons, tweaked to perfection. An array of versatile armors, chosen for the situation. And all the Molotovs and flashbangs he can carry. Si vis pacem, para bellum.


These are just some examples - experiment!

Assault Rifles as a weapon are about three things in Underrail - burst fire, high per-bullet damage, and ranged accuracy. The combination of these three is what makes the AR excel in comparison to the other firearms. There are some feats we can use to enhance these greatly, so that our strengths in combat will shine brightly.

Feats

Expertise: It won't seem like much early on, but when you're level ~10 the enemies will be feeling the pain. High-caliber ammunition + burst fire + Expertise. Kevlar be damned.

Suppressive Fire (req 10 Guns, 6 Per): This feat seems rather middling at first glance, but it can be extremely powerful if used properly. The cone is massive and hits enemies at extreme distances from the character. The most dangerous foes an AR specialist will face (long-range weapons like crossbows/snipers) are hurt the most by this, as they will spend their precious MP and AP moving closer to counteract the accuracy penalty - closer so you can burst fire them down next round. An AR specialist is going to burst fire almost every round, so this feat certainly will not be put to waste.

Gun Nut (req 7 Int, 15 Mechanics): Get your 9mm barrels out, gentlemen. This feat on an AR with a large caliber is simply fantastic.

Full Auto (req 7 Str, 40 Guns): You burst fire almost every round. The immense onslaught of damage will cripple and shred your enemies.

Concentrated Fire (req 8 Per, 60 Guns): As if your 9mm bursts weren't doing enough damage, here's more to pile on. At close ranges, this feat makes an AR burst every bit as lethal as Cut Throat.

Commando (req 80 Guns): Trust me, you will almost always meet the condition to trigger this feat. Disgusting.

The combination of these feats makes for an extremely powerful burst fire. Expertise (dmg) + Gun Nut (dmg) + Full Auto (more bullets) + Concentrated Fire (dmg). Then Commando lets you do it all over again in the same turn - for free.

In addition, there is one piece of equipment that deserves special mention (though I haven't happened upon one yet in my current playthrough [Styg's punishment for my powergaming sins]). The Muzzle Brake addon adds 2 additional bullets to your burst. Burst fire is 5 bullets by default. Full Auto adds 2, up to 7. Muzzle brake adds 2 more, up to 9. Nine bullets doing compoundingly more damage (Concentrated Fire), with each bullet being buffed up by Expertise (+lvl in damage per bullet) and Gun Nut( ~10 damage per bullet). Meanwhile, everyone behind the meat you just shredded is debuffed by Suppressive Fire.

Destruction is its own kind of beauty.

You should make a megalist of all your build suggestions. It's good stuff.

 

[Alfons]

You sure the 9mm is the way to go? I believe the hornet in 7.62 has an ap cost of 9 with the right upgrade. Even without adrenaline you can fire one burst, one rapid fire and another single shot. That's 11-13 shots per round depending on upgrades.

For anyone who has been playing on 1.14 for a while, what are your thoughts on crafting? Tailoring, electronics and mechanics seem great since they give you customized gear If you are willing to quick load a bunch of times, but couldn't you get gear which is somewhat close with the same F9 method?

Even if you take the above 3 are chem and bio worth it? Chem is probably good with guns because of the unique ammo, but how about the higher end bio stuff how rare is it? I took bio to 40 because I think regen metal armor is awesome.

Speaking of metal armor, is it worth the 8 str for builds that don't use melee or guns? And if it is should you bump it by another 1 for tungsten?

Grenadier and throwing. How beneficial are they? I had both on one char and even though I had 65% to hit I threw the nade at my own feet and killed myself, losing a won battle.

Lockpicking and hacking. I read the short discussion a few pages back, but I'm interested in reading more opinions about them. The dude arguing against them said that in the end all they do is give you is extra cash, the wiki dude's rebuttal was that it gives you oddities that would only be available later without them and it opens areas that wouldn't be accessible. I understand the convenience, it can already be seen in the third quest. Do you want to fuck about in the air ducts or do you want to just pick a lock? But are they better for a nonstealth combat char, or would that guy be better served by other skills.

So far the easiest build I made( I only got it to level 8 so keep that in mind ) was a 9 STR, 7 CON, 9 WILL, 6 INT the rest are 3. The damage was nothing to write home about but the defense is crazy. Juggernaut, conditioning and stoicism combined with regenerating metal armor is great. Though the damage is not great it is consistent, with thermo you can somewhat consistently take out an eel gangster in a single turn. That's probably the thing I love most about Psi, since I'm not worried about hit chance I can go off the beaten path and always have a shot. I tried doing the same with a PER assault build and I was reloading much more frequently. Psi has the ability of consistently killing singular level 20 mobs and small groups of level 10-14 mobs at level 7 or 8. More useful is the fact that I could clear the level 8 bandit building near junkyard at level 3 or 4.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Why would a sniper rifle user have 10 dexterity and max it at every turn?

You would never do that, and that should never happen. Either I've made a grave error in my post (can't find it) or there's a misunderstanding.

You sure the 9mm is the way to go? I believe the hornet in 7.62 has an ap cost of 9 with the right upgrade. Even without adrenaline you can fire one burst, one rapid fire and another single shot. That's 11-13 shots per round depending on upgrades.

That certainly works, but going for 9mm gives you the most benefit out of Gun Nut and the most benefit out of the game mechanics (raw penetration power vs. mechanical/kevlar) relative to other firearms. If the goal is to Monte Carlo the room, SMGs are the superior option.

 

[Alfons]

That certainly works, but going for 9mm gives you the most benefit out of Gun Nut and the most benefit out of the game mechanics (raw penetration power vs. mechanical/kevlar) relative to other firearms. If the goal is to Monte Carlo the room, SMGs are the superior option.

Attacking more is hugely beneficial since the damage spread is so huge, especially with gun nut, and the lower end of the damage seems extremely close between calibers. I view the assault rifle build as a pseudo crit build, it's just that instead of crits you're fishing for upper damage hits. Going with 7.62 might be overkill, if my calculations are correct then the 9MM hornet only loses a single attack. So do whatever just use the hornet, at least until you get commando.

The spreads in this game are ludicrous, with an early level crit .44 hammerer build the damage spread is around 30-250. It's lovely to see that half the time crits do half the damage of regular attacks.

 

[Sykar]

Why would a sniper rifle user have 10 dexterity and max it at every turn?

You would never do that, and that should never happen. Either I've made a grave error in my post (can't find it) or there's a misunderstanding.

Well you wrote:

A typical SMG/Pistol user looks like the following:
10 Dexterity (max every opportunity)
10 Perception
8 or 6/5 or 7/4 other stats

And a Sniper Rifle user doesn't look much different.

This implies to me that you think a sniper rifle user should maximize dexterity, too. Could be a misunderstanding on my part of course.

 

[LJ40]

It also implies that they are a little different. I'd venture to guess that that little difference has something to do with dexterity.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Any way to up critical chance (on knives) besides Reckless feat?
Also i am wondering if it's possible to apply poison to knives somehow. Would help with tank enemies?

Just played through arena with e 10/10/6 STR/CON/WIL character - 800+ hps with juggernaut, stoic and with a shield = walking fortress. Psi control is key to just walk to a disabled opponent and unleash dirty kicks and super slams. It's pretty cool, how using STR/Armor for defence opens psi/crafting for such a character.

For comparison high mobility knife ninja could not survive not going first in some fights (with mediocre equips).

But funny enough - 5 faceless fight felt easier on the mobile ninja than super psi tank. Because the ninja could deliver upclose damage much faster, whereas psi tank would waste AP for walking and had to psi control carefully and slowly walk to priority targets.

Anyway, playing different characters is so much fun - can't wait for the finished game.

 

[Zdzisiu]

Any way to up critical chance (on knives) besides Reckless feat?
Also i am wondering if it's possible to apply poison to knives somehow. Would help with tank enemies?

Just played through arena with e 10/10/6 STR/CON/WIL character - 800+ hps with juggernaut, stoic and with a shield = walking fortress. Psi control is key to just walk to a disabled opponent and unleash dirty kicks and super slams. It's pretty cool, how using STR/Armor for defence opens psi/crafting for such a character.

For comparison high mobility knife ninja could not survive not going first in some fights (with mediocre equips).

But funny enough - 5 faceless fight felt easier on the mobile ninja than super psi tank. Because the ninja could deliver upclose damage much faster, whereas psi tank would waste AP for walking and had to psi control carefully and slowly walk to priority targets.

Anyway, playing different characters is so much fun - can't wait for the finished game.

You could also invest in dex for the melee crit chance, and the Weaponsmith feat gives +5% crit chance to hammers and knives you craft. And there is also a medicine that increases crit chance for a couple of turns.

Edit: Also, Survival Instincts feat gives +30% crit chance when you are under 30% hp.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Well you wrote:

"And a Sniper Rifle user doesn't look much different."

This implies to me that you think a sniper rifle user should maximize dexterity, too. Could be a misunderstanding on my part of course.

I can see how that's vague. The sentence before that section, I talked about why ARs are versatile in comparison to other firearms because they only need a 10/7 rather than a 10/10 starting distribution to work at 100% effectiveness. I did explicitly outline there that snipers used Per/Agi instead of Per/Dex, and it was in the context of that statement that I wrote what you quoted. Poor clarity on my part, though.

---------------------

As far as the discussion about high vs. low caliber Alfons : both concepts have different strengths. Just speaking very generally, there is a sliding scale in Underrail that goes from low-damage high-throughput at the bottom to high-damage low-throughput at the top - and a knowledgeable player can end up damn near anywhere anywhere they please on this sliding scale and still have a strong character.

In my little preview, I simply chose to go for an extreme rather than somewhere closer to the middle - mostly to illustrate a certain kind of logic when comparing the firearms. SMGs are great at clearing the room. Explicitly, they are very good against groups of enemies. Where they are weak is against kevlar and other high-threshold armors. ARs are devastating against single targets and have virtually no weaknesses (if properly built) against kevlar and similar but don't excel out the gate at clearing rooms. I chose to frame these two in juxtaposition rather than demonstrate the full range of their capabilities and highlight possible similarities.

.edit. We need more excellent discussion such as this in the Underrail thread.

 

[Sykar]

Is there a way to stop the fucking auto combat ending? Here's a scenario that happened to me more than once. I frag a couple of guys and then flashbang them, I have grandier so I just want to wait for 2 turns to frag them again, I wait for a turn and combat ends. The initiate combat command is on cooldown so I'm left with the option of running or trying to throw a nade faster than the npcs can initiate.

I dont think there is a way to prevent that, and it happened to me a couple of times too, when I throw a flashbang, stun all of the guys and end turn the games interpret it as if there were no enemies in sight and ends the combat, and I have to mash enter to start the combat again.

I don't know the specifics but the way the game figures out whether you are in combat or not definitely seems fucked up at times. I hate doing the stupid hopper quest because if they evade that area is locked in combat even though I'm the only one on screen. Sometimes walking away and pressing end turn a few times solves it, other times you have to wait for that specific hopper to come out and either kill him or catch him.

Hopper quest is rather easy with stealth since you do not need to entangle them, you can just run up to them and use the box with 100% success.

 

[Alfons]

Just speaking very generally, there is a sliding scale in Underrail that goes from low-damage high-throughput at the bottom to high-damage low-throughput at the top - and a knowledgeable player can end up damn near anywhere they please on this sliding scale and still have a strong character.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is that just a complicated way of saying small damage spread and large damage spread? For example 30-45 for the small spread and 15-80 for the large spread. Is that what you mean or are you talking about something else entirely?

Hopper quest is rather easy with stealth since you do not need to entangle them, you can just run up to them and use the box with 100% success.

I think this:

Wait a bit away from a hole. Hopper comes out. Immediately initiate combat. Walk next to hopper and use cage on it. Hopper is in cage. Repeat until quest solved.

is what you want to be doing. I tried it and it works great. Turns the mission into just another fetch quest instead of a pain in the ass.

 

[epeli]

It would be interesting to know what range of skill checks is to expect in the late game

Skill checks start to plateau around 100. 120 is enough for most things in the current version, except super steel crafting. I think 100-120 is the intended range for endgame skillchecks.

Also i am wondering if it's possible to apply poison to knives somehow. Would help with tank enemies?

Nope, but knives don't need poisons to defeat tin cans. Expose Weakness works wonders.


Alfons you're absolutely right about the caliber thing. Unlike ST'Ranger claims, threshold penetration is not an issue for assault rifles and thus chasing for max benefit from Gun Nut while disregarding AP cost is completely nonsensical. His theorycrafting is deceptively well-written and detailed, but it is often just that - theorycrafting. Definitely not based on actual gameplay experience. Most of it is valid and good advice, but some things don't hold true in actual gameplay and/or at higher levels.

I think his sliding scale comment meant that each firearm model has options (calibers) for either low AP cost & damage/shot or high AP cost & damage/shot.

 

[Sykar]

Just speaking very generally, there is a sliding scale in Underrail that goes from low-damage high-throughput at the bottom to high-damage low-throughput at the top - and a knowledgeable player can end up damn near anywhere they please on this sliding scale and still have a strong character.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is that just a complicated way of saying small damage spread and large damage spread? For example 30-45 for the small spread and 15-80 for the large spread. Is that what you mean or are you talking about something else entirely?

Hopper quest is rather easy with stealth since you do not need to entangle them, you can just run up to them and use the box with 100% success.

I think this:

Wait a bit away from a hole. Hopper comes out. Immediately initiate combat. Walk next to hopper and use cage on it. Hopper is in cage. Repeat until quest solved.

is what you want to be doing. I tried it and it works great. Turns the mission into just another fetch quest instead of a pain in the ass.

Thanks, that is a good idea for non stealth characters. Will try that method when I make one in my next playthrough. I really think Styg should modify throw success on Hoppers. Throwing nets with only average dexterity and no throwing skill is like a 5% success chance which is ridiculous.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Alfons you're absolutely right about the caliber thing. Unlike ST'Ranger claims, threshold penetration is not an issue for assault rifles and thus chasing for max benefit from Gun Nut while disregarding AP cost is completely nonsensical. His theorycrafting is deceptively well-written and detailed, but it is often just that - theorycrafting. Definitely not based on actual gameplay experience. Most of it is valid and good advice, but some things don't hold true in actual gameplay and/or at higher levels.

I think his sliding scale comment meant that each firearm model has options (calibers) for either low AP cost & damage/shot or high AP cost & damage/shot.

It's possible I've given off the wrong impression with my build previews, but they are certainly not optimization guides. I've tried to write most of my "advice" in this thread in a beginner-friendly way that touches on game mechanics and the logic behind them, but doesn't necessarily go into the raw details in depth. If I were to do that, my post above would be a discussion mostly about armor mechanics and SMGs.

I don't want to start some pages-long argument on the subject, but I also strongly believe that "optimization" goes entirely against the spirit of the game. It's a single player game with a lot of fun and different builds, some of which are easier to handle or arguably just "better" and others which require more work or finesse but are entertaining (Sawyer be damned). The biggest strength of the game's character system is that there are no hidden metagamey requirements to beat it or broken game systems which strongly reward one style of play over another - this encourages creativity and experimentation in character creation. The only thing "nonsensical" on the topic of optimization of Assault Rifles is using them instead of Steel Cats, which perform a very similar function but better in almost every way. But the joy of Underrail is that you can play an AR character (that has a different set of skills altogether from the Steel Cat user) and not care that in most situations you are only being 80-90% as good as the theoretical ghost you're "racing".

You are correct about my meaning of the sliding scale. What I was saying was that enough options are present in the game that you can land in many places between low-cost-low-damage and high-cost-high-damage. I just got carried away with my diction.

I invite and encourage others to point out any errors I make and/or disagreements they have with my posts for two reasons. I can't go back and edit posts if I've thought better of a topic. What's written after some few hours is what will always be written. Secondly, it spurs active discussion on this fantastic game whose final arrival I await as a mad cultist awaits the arrival of the mothership that will spirit them away to nirvana.

Also Styg I've been quite impressed with how well the new stairs work (the ones that replaced the old blue in-zone transitions). I was sure I could bug them out if I tried hard enough, but I haven't managed yet. Most of the bugs I get in this version are from playing the game too long, apparently, because they go away with a restart.

 

[Diggfinger]

When you add soft foam padding and black cloth to a leather armor recipe that would produce a black overcoat with the black cloth alone, it produces a standard leather overcoat instead. It definitely ought to stay black.

Leather armors and tactical vests have different coat variations and while it would make more sense for it too look like the black overcoat (which is used as a tactical vest variation) it is more important for player to be able to identify which category of armor the enemies are wearing.

http://underrail.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=54

Release date

When it's done. Sometimes during 2015.

Aww, what happened to "first half"?

I don't know what you're talking about.

Next update:

Release date
"When it's done. Sometimes during 20156.

 

[Blaine]

I ran into what may be a perfect example of the situations this game presents you with and the many potential ways you can approach them, part of the content added since late last year.

I was exploring a large underground base populated by a certain gang with lots of members who prefer to use stealth. (I'm playing a stealthy character with high Perception myself currently, which is a mercy when dealing with stealth enemies.) Around a bend in a hallway, I could see part of a room that appeared to be empty. Well, I wasn't buying it, so I sneaked just across the door's threshold and waited. Sure enough, I began to see a faint outline indicating that my character was beginning to detect an enemy in stealth. The way stealth vs. stealth (Spy vs. Spy, if you will) detection works in Underrail is interesting: Generally, by the time you begin to see the enemy, you have only moments until they notice you in turn, so you need to initiate combat very quickly if you want to get the jump on them. If your Perception is low, you won't even have that option in most cases.

Anyway, I noticed this dude, and sniped him with my crossbow. One-hit kill. Finished, right? Nope. I activated Sprint and ran right back out the door. I've been playing this game long enough to know what a tricky cunt it is. Sure enough, when I ended my turn, combat continued, which meant that another stealthy enemy was present. Next turn, I stepped into the doorway, threw a flare, and there his ass was a few squares away. I used Kneecap Shot on him, it landed, and he was easy prey from then on.

There are many ways to handle that same situation. You could set up a bunch of traps in the hall outside, use yourself as bait, then flee back the way you came and let them run into your traps (had the room been truly empty, you could pick your traps back up again). If you're a big noisy melee character, you can round the corner (possibly in combat mode) and throw a flashbang, or perhaps use an AoE psi ability if you're a psionics character.

If you're a melee character with no throwing skill or throwing items, or any flares, and you just bumble into the room, you're fucked because Crippling Strike is a fucking cunt and you can't do shit except flee when knife users spam it over and over again.

 

[Caconym]

.edit. We need more excellent discussion such as this in the Underrail thread.

Yeah we do! I'm waiting with the game in my inventory for the final build, but until then informative – and spoiler-free – discussions such as these are great to read.

 

[epeli]

I don't want to start some pages-long argument on the subject, but I also strongly believe that "optimization" goes entirely against the spirit of the game. It's a single player game with a lot of fun and different builds, some of which are easier to handle or arguably just "better" and others which require more work or finesse but are entertaining (Sawyer be damned). The biggest strength of the game's character system is that there are no hidden metagamey requirements to beat it or broken game systems which strongly reward one style of play over another - this encourages creativity and experimentation in character creation.

I completely agree. Almost any imaginable build is viable and different builds can offer surprisingly varied playstyles. I try to avoid any optimized build talk myself, but I often find myself explaining game mechanics to people so they can make informed decisions and enjoy the game to its fullest. Some things just aren't explained anywhere in-game.

The only thing "nonsensical" on the topic of optimization of Assault Rifles is using them instead of Steel Cats, which perform a very similar function but better in almost every way.

No, the nonsensical part was your assessment on the importance of packing the highest possible caliber and the reasoning for it:

the most benefit out of the game mechanics (raw penetration power vs. mechanical/kevlar) relative to other firearms

Armor reduces damage by resistance or threshold, whichever is higher. Not both. Resistance is the same percentage regardless of how much damage is done, and assault rifles usually deal enough damage per hit to ignore threshold. Anti-rifle vests are fairly rare and armor-piercing rounds can punch through their thresholds easily.

Not sure what you meant with Steel Cats. Why would an AR character want one? Hornets have higher damage, less damage spread, higher magazine capacity and better burst accuracy than Steel Cats of comparable quality/caliber. Lower AP cost as well if you've invested in str instead of dex. Not to mention Concentrated Fire doesn't work with SMGs.

If you're a melee character with no throwing skill or throwing items, or any flares, and you just bumble into the room, you're fucked because Crippling Strike is a fucking cunt and you can't do shit except flee when knife users spam it over and over again.

Crippling Strike certainly traumatized (or should I say crippled?) you for life. Now might be a good time to mention this... Remember how I said earlier that there are good ways to deal with Crippling Strike? You would've been effectively immune to it if you had increased your strength to 14 or higher (which is not a bad idea for sledgehammer, they get massive damage bonus from strength on top of the melee skill bonus)

 

[Zdzisiu]

If you're a melee character with no throwing skill or throwing items, or any flares, and you just bumble into the room, you're fucked because Crippling Strike is a fucking cunt and you can't do shit except flee when knife users spam it over and over again.

Oh man, I know how you feel! Those little bastards with their tiny knives are super annoying when Im playing my heavy armor supersledge guy. The just run to you and start poking you with their pathetic knive for 1-3 dmg, and use the god damn crippling stike so your strenght is lower and quite likely you are now encumbered and have lower movement points and possibly action points too. And they are harder to hit because of their dodge/evasion focus. But thankfully all I need is one hit, so it is often a quite comical sight to see, the guy is poking me like 6-8 times a turn and I try to pop-a-mole his ass as with a hammer.

 

[Sykar]

Everything has a counter.

 

[Blaine]

Crippling Strike certainly traumatized (or should I say crippled?) you for life. Now might be a good time to mention this... Remember how I said earlier that there are good ways to deal with Crippling Strike? You would've been effectively immune to it if you had increased your strength to 14 or higher (which is not a bad idea for sledgehammer, they get massive damage bonus from strength on top of the melee skill bonus)

Oh, I know that, but that's what I'd call a "crude counter." The other counter (and the one I always used in my first playthrough) is to ejaculate flashbangs and grenades like a soda machine gone haywire anytime you even suspect stealthed knife users may be nearby.

Extremely high scores in one stat isn't really my style and requires sacrifices of some kind or another.