Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Black Angel]

Yes, that. But I have to admit that I haven't really put much thought into the best crafting scheme for Assault Rifles, and my current AR playthrough is put on hold because I'm more interested to play other games atm. Also, the guide's kinda old, and I'm not sure if after so many patches and with the upcoming expansion there would be changes that might render that guide obsolete, so I guess we have to wait for Eyestabber to show up instead.

 

[Tygrende]

As a matter of fact I did make a "long range assault rifle" build using a Chimera AR. The general idea was to make a sniper-like AR user that focuses less on bursts and is effective at all ranges rather than just at point blank.

8.6 Chimera with a Rapid Reloader and an Anatomically-Aware scope my was choice. 35% more critical damage (87.5 with Critical Power) is far better than 7% crit chance, same deal as with sniper rifles. It can't compare to a smart muzzled 7.62 hornet (or rapid muzzled 8.6) when it comes to bursts, but is more than capable of dealing up to 500 damage in one crit and 1-shoting most enemies. It plays a lot like a gimped sniper that doesn't care about move/close range penalties. It's also a nightmare early on when crit damage and precision are too low to make this viable.

 

[ciox]

As a matter of fact I did make a "long range assault rifle" build using a Chimera AR. The general idea was to make a sniper-like AR user that focuses less on bursts and is effective at all ranges rather than just at point blank.

8.6 Chimera with a Rapid Reloader and an Anatomically-Aware scope my was choice. 35% more critical damage (87.5 with Critical Power) is far better than 7% crit chance, same deal as with sniper rifles. It can't compare to a smart muzzled 7.62 hornet (or rapid muzzled 8.6) when it comes to bursts, but is more than capable of dealing up to 500 damage in one crit and 1-shoting most enemies. It plays a lot like a gimped sniper that doesn't care about move/close range penalties. It's also a nightmare early on when crit damage and precision are too low to make this viable.

Cool, I'm pretty sure I will stick with my decision for a 9mm Chimera without reloader, since you can't reach 2 bursts without Blitz and 10 agility anyway, and I'd rather just have the main burst be as glorious as possible. Then with Adrenaline you can still combine one burst with one 3-round rapid fire or an aimed shot, which is all I wanted in the first place.
As for the scope, I can't deny High-Resolution is slightly underpowered (it should probably be 10% for all weapons at least to begin with, then later buffed further for sniping weapons), but I'm trying to get a build that incorporates it for once and this is probably it, I think a High-Resolution scope is much worse on a crossbow (even Monsoon) or sniper rifle, so if there's any place where it works it's in a Chimera AR build.

I'll have to see how nightmarish it gets, so far I'm at level 8 and just using looted ARs, but I'm having a lot of fun bursting everything to death with crit-filled bursts from Recklessness and Seeker Goggles, training wheels for what is to come.
Also found a Doctor's Bag in SGS in the gym this run, which is very nice for AR characters.

 

[Janise]

kekomat

btw if you kill the security camera behind him with a burst, you get the commando gun rush

 

[Tygrende]

Cool, I'm pretty sure I will stick with my decision for a 9mm Chimera without reloader, since you can't reach 2 bursts without Blitz and 10 agility anyway, and I'd rather just have the main burst be as glorious as possible. Then with Adrenaline you can still combine one burst with one 3-round rapid fire or an aimed shot, which is all I wanted in the first place.
As for the scope, I can't deny High-Resolution is slightly underpowered (it should probably be 10% for all weapons at least to begin with, then later buffed further for sniping weapons), but I'm trying to get a build that incorporates it for once and this is probably it, I think a High-Resolution scope is much worse on a crossbow (even Monsoon) or sniper rifle, so if there's any place where it works it's in a Chimera AR build.

I'll have to see how nightmarish it gets, so far I'm at level 8 and just using looted ARs, but I'm having a lot of fun bursting everything to death with crit-filled bursts from Recklessness and Seeker Goggles, training wheels for what is to come.
Also found a Doctor's Bag in SGS in the gym this run, which is very nice for AR characters.

If you really want to stack crit chance as high as possible you probably should make an infused rathound leather armor- 8% bonus critical chance at 100 quality, 13% at 160 quality.

Ambush is really good as well- it can be a bit buggy sometimes but with high stealth you can easily reach 100% crit chance with it.

Survival Instincts sounds tempting if you can afford to have 9 CON and don't mind running around with less than 30% HP.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Question. Ancient rathound leather is really nice and i would like to use it, but problem is i chose nimble as one of my first perks. I'm AR guy (yes, this is still my first run, i had a long hiatus) so it was probably my biggest mistake in my build. It's seems not worth it to loose like 30 points in dodge/evasion (cumulative mistake) for an armor with >15% penalty. Could use metal armor then to begin with. But maybe i'm missing something and the penalty of a leather can be reduced?

Also, it seems that while high evasion is pretty noticeable against gun firing d00ds, dodge does fuck all against melee attacks. Only low frequency shield somewhat helps, but not that much. Crossbowmen are real pain in the ass and psy users are just unplayable. Either i kill them in the very first round or they kill me.

One other thing, doppelgangers. I guess if you're not magic user the only way to survive against those thing are run away and wait while they dissipate, yes? Did that with the 'fjoohla' rathound in the Core City sewers. Killed the physical wolf fast as i can and then just ran away from them for 3 turns. Had to reload few times. Is there no way to harm those thing other than psyballs?

 

[Janise]

I also have a bunch of shit feats. It doesnt matter much. I dont think general purpose armor matters much either. I think Defensive stats never did help much also.
For low Str chars - Its all about not taking any hits, traps, dancing around corners for 1on1, kiting, tactical vests and high eff shields.
So make whatever leather armor you'd like to larp in...

 

[Gnidrologist]

Guess you're right, except that i think ancient rathound leather is most efficient i've seen in game so it kinda pains to have those additional 5% of penalty. Not about farping.

 

[Tygrende]

Question. Ancient rathound leather is really nice and i would like to use it, but problem is i chose nimble as one of my first perks. I'm AR guy (yes, this is still my first run, i had a long hiatus) so it was probably my biggest mistake in my build. It's seems not worth it to loose like 30 points in dodge/evasion (cumulative mistake) for an armor with >15% penalty. Could use metal armor then to begin with.

Nimble is useful for pretty much any build because any build will benefit from 15% less penalty to movement points, stealth, dodge and evasion. The 15% bonus to dodge and evasion at 0% penalty is nice but by no means necessary, 15% less armor penalty is already very good on its own. I would never call Nimble a wasted feat.

If you really want to get that dodge/evasion bonus from Nimble, wear pig leather, it has only 15% base penalty. Higher DR at the cost of lower DT compared to other leathers, but that's preferable since DR is used a lot more often and leather armors can't stack DT like tactical vests can. +1 CON means bonus HP and that's universally good, higher chance to resist stuns/incapacitation is also universally good. Once you get access to infused leather pig is the best all-around leather armor if you ask me- huge HP bonus (up to 100+) on top of +1 CON.

But maybe i'm missing something and the penalty of a leather can be reduced?

It cannot, it can only go higher depending on what components you use.

Also, it seems that while high evasion is pretty noticeable against gun firing d00ds, dodge does fuck all against melee attacks. Only low frequency shield somewhat helps, but not that much. Crossbowmen are real pain in the ass and psy users are just unplayable. Either i kill them in the very first round or they kill me.

Are you wearing goggles? They reduce dodge by 25%.

Anyways even if you are still getting hit dodge can be useful if you pick Uncanny Dodge, one of the best defensive feats in the entire game. Guarantess you will dodge at least 2 melee attack in the next turn, 1more for every 30 points in dodge.

One other thing, doppelgangers. I guess if you're not magic user the only way to survive against those thing are run away and wait while they dissipate, yes? Did that with the 'fjoohla' rathound in the Core City sewers. Killed the physical wolf fast as i can and then just ran away from them for 3 turns. Had to reload few times. Is there no way to harm those thing other than psyballs?

Non-psi can't do anything to doppelgangers, the only defense against them is to run and/or have more HP.

I also have a bunch of shit feats. It doesnt matter much. I dont think general purpose armor matters much either. I think Defensive stats never did help much also.
For low Str chars - Its all about not taking any hits, traps, dancing around corners for 1on1, kiting, tactical vests and high eff shields.
So make whatever leather armor you'd like to larp in...

Sure, you could even be running naked and beat the game, but having to savescum almost every time the enemy gets to act before you is far from optimal.

Tactical vest and an energy shield are a poor combo- shields already give you sufficent protection vs. bullets most of the time, what they are really lacking is protection vs. melee. That's what your armor should be doing. My builds with low armor penalty almost always end up with infused pig leather armor with high density padding for that reason- bonus HP is good against everything, high density padding increases the already high DR by a % against melee attacks. As an example, a 162 quality infused pig leather armor with 110 quality padding has 46%/11 DR/DT, adds 106 HP on top of +1 CON and increases DR/DT by 28% against melee attacks (so 59%/14). All of this at only 20% penalty, measly 5% with Nimble.

 

[Janise]

In my experience, melee enemies never act before me, as a 9/10 Per Guns guy, because stealth. Reloading happened for me because of Snipers instagibbing or Psykers or Crossbows - so tactikewl vests and shields helped a bunch. Much rarer when a Knifeguy gets close enough to actually attack, they are kill priority of course. I did use riot armor before hitting Commando though.

Early to midgame a rifle guy runs into a bunch of melee shit but when you hit Core City, its all shooty shooty and afterwards I just didnt give a fuck and used a looted 25%/10 stealth robe with energy shield.

 

[Tygrende]

In my experience, melee enemies never act before me, as a 9/10 Per Guns guy, because stealth.

You don't always have the luxury to act first out of stealth. Lurker cut-throats and such use stealth themselves and are likely to get a drop on you. Arena enemies can possibly act first if they win initiative, but usually that's only a problem vs. Carnifex. Or you could simply screw up, get immobilized/stunned, happens from time to time.

Reloading happened for me because of Snipers instagibbing or Psykers or Crossbows - so tactikewl vests and shields helped a bunch.

Tactical vests are weak vs. sniper rifles, not that good vs. crossbows either, completly useless vs. psi.

The entire gimmick of tactical vests is that they get 200% more DT vs. bullets and have naturally high DT/ low DR. They are all about DT. DT is only useful against multiple weak attacks, snipers and crossbows are the exact opposite of that. Psi doesn't care about resistances, only bonus HP or running away help. I gurantee a higher DR armor with bonus health would do you more good.

There are exceptions of course, a tactical vest with sturdy vest (bonus HP) and nanocomposite plate (reduced critical damage) can be effective vs. snipers. But in general tactical vest are only good against pistols/SMGs/ARs and very low damage attacks of all kind, like spawn for example.

Early to midgame a rifle guy runs into a bunch of melee shit but when you hit Core City, its all shooty shooty and afterwards I just didnt give a fuck and used a looted 25%/10 stealth robe with energy shield.

The game has a pretty even distribution of enemies all the way through, most groups include one or more melee enemies. It's true you will be able to kill them first most of the time, but in that rare case you can't the added protection is nice, especially when it also gives a small bonus to the overall DR like high density padding does.

Question, were you playing on normal or hard? The bonus HP and lower hypo cooldowns are very forgiving on normal, it's not nearly as much of a big deal as it is on hard.

 

[Sykar]

Question. Ancient rathound leather is really nice and i would like to use it, but problem is i chose nimble as one of my first perks. I'm AR guy (yes, this is still my first run, i had a long hiatus) so it was probably my biggest mistake in my build. It's seems not worth it to loose like 30 points in dodge/evasion (cumulative mistake) for an armor with >15% penalty. Could use metal armor then to begin with.

Nimble is useful for pretty much any build because any build will benefit from 15% less penalty to movement points, stealth, dodge and evasion. The 15% bonus to dodge and evasion at 0% penalty is nice but by no means necessary, 15% less armor penalty is already very good on its own. I would never call Nimble a wasted feat.

If you really want to get that dodge/evasion bonus from Nimble, wear pig leather, it has only 15% base penalty. Higher DR at the cost of lower DT compared to other leathers, but that's preferable since DR is used a lot more often and leather armors can't stack DT like tactical vests can. +1 CON means bonus HP and that's universally good, higher chance to resist stuns/incapacitation is also universally good. Once you get access to infused leather pig is the best all-around leather armor if you ask me- huge HP bonus (up to 100+) on top of +1 CON.

But maybe i'm missing something and the penalty of a leather can be reduced?

It cannot, it can only go higher depending on what components you use.

Also, it seems that while high evasion is pretty noticeable against gun firing d00ds, dodge does fuck all against melee attacks. Only low frequency shield somewhat helps, but not that much. Crossbowmen are real pain in the ass and psy users are just unplayable. Either i kill them in the very first round or they kill me.

Are you wearing goggles? They reduce dodge by 25%.

Anyways even if you are still getting hit dodge can be useful if you pick Uncanny Dodge, one of the best defensive feats in the entire game. Guarantess you will dodge at least 2 melee attack in the next turn, 1more for every 30 points in dodge.

One other thing, doppelgangers. I guess if you're not magic user the only way to survive against those thing are run away and wait while they dissipate, yes? Did that with the 'fjoohla' rathound in the Core City sewers. Killed the physical wolf fast as i can and then just ran away from them for 3 turns. Had to reload few times. Is there no way to harm those thing other than psyballs?

Non-psi can't do anything to doppelgangers, the only defense against them is to run and/or have more HP.

I also have a bunch of shit feats. It doesnt matter much. I dont think general purpose armor matters much either. I think Defensive stats never did help much also.
For low Str chars - Its all about not taking any hits, traps, dancing around corners for 1on1, kiting, tactical vests and high eff shields.
So make whatever leather armor you'd like to larp in...

Sure, you could even be running naked and beat the game, but having to savescum almost every time the enemy gets to act before you is far from optimal.

Tactical vest and an energy shield are a poor combo- shields already give you sufficent protection vs. bullets most of the time, what they are really lacking is protection vs. melee. That's what your armor should be doing. My builds with low armor penalty almost always end up with infused pig leather armor with high density padding for that reason- bonus HP is good against everything, high density padding increases the already high DR by a % against melee attacks. As an example, a 162 quality infused pig leather armor with 110 quality padding has 46%/11 DR/DT, adds 106 HP on top of +1 CON and increases DR/DT by 28% against melee attacks (so 59%/14). All of this at only 20% penalty, measly 5% with Nimble.

Nimble is pretty useless for anything other than light armor. I'd never get it on my heavy armor characters, especially with the Heavyweight feat, and had to seriously consider it for medium armored characters since those and heavy armor usually do not have any Evasion/Dodge and usually no stealth either.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Wonder whether to rise perception from 9 to 10 on next level up. Tbh i didn't feel all that much difference after rising two points on previous levelups already. Even with guns around 120 and PE 9 the CtH is still pretty low without constantly using night goggles or always moving in the optimal space for AR shot.

EDIT: decided to use cheat engine for speed up, but as soon as i enter combat the area darkens out and i can only see my char's movement path. Everything else, including npcs is grayed out and can't do anything. What gives?
editedit: the problem goes away after i move at least one square. The dark thing happens whenever i save/reload game or get into scripted set like arena fight.

 

[Tygrende]

Nimble is pretty useless for anything other than light armor. I'd never get it on my heavy armor characters, especially with the Heavyweight feat, and had to seriously consider it for medium armored characters since those and heavy armor usually do not have any Evasion/Dodge and usually no stealth either.

There is very little reason to go above 65% penalty, that's how much an anti-rifle tactical vest with a super metal sheet will have if you want to wear that for some reason. Super steel metal armor 3 times reinforced with Armor Sloping will have 59%. Juggernaut requires a suit of armor to have at least 50% penalty but the total penalty doesn't count. So with Nimble your armor penalty would be 50% with an anti-rifle vest and 44% with metal armor, still enough to sucessfully use stealth most of the time (as long as there are no high PER enemies such as snipers) and to have some movement points left.

Heavyweight is useful, but it's definetly not worth it to push your armor penalty as high as possible for a bit more critical damage. Melee needs at least some movement points and preferably some stealth to reach the enemy. Nimble helps with that. Sprint can be used as well but that is often not enough and has a very long cooldown.

 

[Sykar]

Nimble is pretty useless for anything other than light armor. I'd never get it on my heavy armor characters, especially with the Heavyweight feat, and had to seriously consider it for medium armored characters since those and heavy armor usually do not have any Evasion/Dodge and usually no stealth either.

There is very little reason to go above 65% penalty, that's how much an anti-rifle tactical vest with a super metal sheet will have if you want to wear that for some reason. Super steel metal armor 3 times reinforced with Armor Sloping will have 59%. Juggernaut requires a suit of armor to have at least 50% penalty but the total penalty doesn't count. So with Nimble your armor penalty would be 50% with an anti-rifle vest and 44% with metal armor, still enough to sucessfully use stealth most of the time (as long as there are no high PER enemies such as snipers) and to have some movement points left.

Heavyweight is useful, but it's definetly not worth it to push your armor penalty as high as possible for a bit more critical damage. Melee needs at least some movement points and preferably some stealth to reach the enemy. Nimble helps with that. Sprint can be used as well but that is often not enough and has a very long cooldown.

Any non-PSI melee has enough points for Throwing. Nimble gives you a few movement points which will rarely if ever make a noticable difference. If you have trouble reaching the enemy -> Flashbang, problem solved. If it is a robot -> EMP.
Using Nimble on anything but a light armor character is a waste of a feat slot and if you have more than 15% armor penalty you waste about half of its power. You would be better served going Agi 6 and Sprint which does not care about your movement penalty.
Also I do not see the point of stealth on heavy metal armor wearer.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Is gauntlet even possible to win without gathering all the keys along the way? I stormed through and only found one. It is unwinnable now.

 

[hilfazer]

Also I do not see the point of stealth on heavy metal armor wearer.

Enter sneak, position yourself, enter turn based, swap armor to metal, destroy.
You can swap as many items as you please - combat won't start unless you start it yourself or leave TB.

 

[Tygrende]

Any non-PSI melee has enough points for Throwing. Nimble gives you a few movement points which will rarely if ever make a noticable difference. If you have trouble reaching the enemy -> Flashbang, problem solved. If it is a robot -> EMP.

Flashbangs can be resisted and have 8 turns of cooldown, EMPs have 6. This is not a reliable way of getting close to enemies, especially not in prolonged fights.

Using Nimble on anything but a light armor character is a waste of a feat slot and if you have more than 15% armor penalty you waste about half of its power.

That's just not true. You don't even need to put points in dodge/evasion at all to benefit from 15% more movement points and stealth.

You would be better served going Agi 6 and Sprint which does not care about your movement penalty.

I never said Sprint is inferior. It's a great feat for any build, arguably essential for high armor penalty melee builds. Nimble is not essential, sometimes not even ueful enough to warrant taking ot over feats, but it is useful.

Consider a build with 6 AGI and Armor sloping wearing super steel metal armor 3 times reinforced and tabis that give bonus 22 movement points. That' 59% armor penalty and 55 movement points before the penalty i applied. You could also wear super steel striders, they give some armor penalty but more movement points, so I'll stick to tabis to make it more clear.

Without nimble, your MPs would be reduced to 55 * 0.41 = 22.55 ≈ 23

With Nimble, they would be reduced to 55 * 0.56 = 30.8 ≈ 31

For high armor penalty melee, 8 more movement points can often means 8 more action points. Must have? Not at all. Useful? Definitely.

Also I do not see the point of stealth on heavy metal armor wearer.

Stealth is of great use to any build, especially melee because it help with approaching the enemy. 100 effective stealth is enough to not be automatically spotted by 90% of the enemies in the entire game.

At 59% penalty, you would need to have 244 stealth before penalty to achieve that, good luck with that. At 44% with Nimble it would only take 179, that on the other can be achieved quite easily and early with a cloaking device.

 

[Sykar]

Cloaking Device guzzles juice like no tomorrow, GL with the constant recharging especially considering that not having Interloper wil make you crawl around like a slug. Or are you telling me you are also constantly switching gear? Must be fun I guess playing dress up 24/7.
Yeah Flashbangs can be resisted, though that happens very rarely and personally I can count on one hand how many times that happens to me on one playthrough. Of course those two were just two examples there are other ways to get into melee.

You can debate all day long here about the "usefulness" of Nimble but quite frankly, there are far better options to get reliably into melee or you could also opt for having for example an AR as a side arm. Shocking I know since everyone here believes that "pure" is always "best".

Also I do not see the point of stealth on heavy metal armor wearer.

Enter sneak, position yourself, enter turn based, swap armor to metal, destroy.
You can swap as many items as you please - combat won't start unless you start it yourself or leave TB.

Oh boy another window dresser. Well if that is fun to you be my guest. I'd rather just get into the action or sneak past outright which is much faster than all that nonsense.

 

[Tygrende]

Cloaking Device guzzles juice like no tomorrow, GL with the constant recharging especially considering that you having Interloper crawling around like a slug.

You don't use stealth at all times, cloaking device is on only for a short amount of time.

Do you also refuse to use energy shields and night vision goggles because you have to recharge them after every fight? Hell, do you refuse to use bandages too?

Or are you telling me you are also constantly switching gear? Must be fun I guess playing dress up 24/7.

Never said that. I actually dislike that a lot.

Yeah Flashbangs can be resisted, though that happens very rarely and personally I can count on one hand how many times that happens to me on one playthrough. Of course those two were just two examples there are other ways to get into melee.

Yeah, one of those ways is wasting AP. Nimble prevents that to a degree.

You can debate all day long here about the "usefulness" of Nimble but quite frankly, there are far better options to get reliably into melee or you could also opt for having for example an AR as a side arm. Shocking I know since everyone here believes that "pure" is always "best".

I never said hybrids are bad either.

 

[Parabalus]

Is there any recent SMG build? Couldn't find anything in the build thread or here, mostly looking to use grenades and burst, would like some advice - have some dilemmas since I never used bullets before:

• Rapid fire/point shot? Guessing their value skyrockets with a powerful smart module.
• DEX vs PER - guessing I'd want 12 AP SMG after reductions for 2x burst, or 11 AP for 3x burst with AS. Unsure how to weigh this considering different weapon frames and attachments, and reloading.
• Gun nut seems bad?
• Full auto worth it? Napkin tells me it beats 4 PER both with and without muzzle break for burst damage, so thinking yes, gives access to AR and SR

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwG...U6Si0ADiPrqvZnVi+8VmrhsTcAE484+IiQ4k08RREVRQA

Remaining SP would go into content skills depending on mood.

Probably should drop AGI to 6, switch hit and run for sprint. Guessing with something like this I might as well take Concentrated Power to be able to use AR fully.

Is gauntlet even possible to win without gathering all the keys along the way? I stormed through and only found one. It is unwinnable now.

I think I did it with one key once a while ago. Depends a lot on which key you get, I got lucky and skipped the robots, one-rounded the rest.

Tactical vest and an energy shield are a poor combo- shields already give you sufficent protection vs. bullets most of the time, what they are really lacking is protection vs. melee. That's what your armor should be doing. My builds with low armor penalty almost always end up with infused pig leather armor with high density padding for that reason- bonus HP is good against everything, high density padding increases the already high DR by a % against melee attacks. As an example, a 162 quality infused pig leather armor with 110 quality padding has 46%/11 DR/DT, adds 106 HP on top of +1 CON and increases DR/DT by 28% against melee attacks (so 59%/14). All of this at only 20% penalty, measly 5% with Nimble.

Tactical vests are good because they make you outright immune to 90% of enemy gun wielders, even 2k energy shields will get drained in one or two rounds of sustained fire. Shields save you from getting one shot by snipers and grenades or electrified.

Problem with melee/crossbows is that they usually hit you with debilitating effects, their damage is far less of a problem compared to their CC against which effective HP isn't much help. As ranged it's far easier to make yourself immune to enemy ranged and kill melees before they come close.

Without nimble, your MPs would be reduced to 55 * 0.41 = 22.55 ≈ 23

With Nimble, they would be reduced to 55 * 0.56 = 30.8 ≈ 31

For high armor penalty melee, 8 more movement points can often means 8 more action points. Must have? Not at all. Useful? Definitely.

Also I do not see the point of stealth on heavy metal armor wearer.

Stealth is of great use to any build, especially melee because it help with approaching the enemy. 100 effective stealth is enough to not be automatically spotted by 90% of the enemies in the entire game.

At 59% penalty, you would need to have 244 stealth before penalty to achieve that, good luck with that. At 44% with Nimble it would only take 179, that on the other can be achieved quite easily and early with a cloaking device.

.

Is cloaking device even affected by armor penalty? Guessing yes but it's kinda funny.

Interesting thoughts on nimble with a "light" metal armor character, uniquely benefits since he can't really use black cloth gear.

 

[Tygrende]

Is gauntlet even possible to win without gathering all the keys along the way? I stormed through and only found one. It is unwinnable now.

That really depends on which keys are you missing and how well does your build work with crappy generic gear. It's not a big deal if you have to fight rathounds, robots are fairly easy if you still have EMPs left. Siphoners are the biggest time sink since they have a lot of HP and heal themselves.

Is there any recent SMG build? Couldn't find anything in the build thread or here, mostly looking to use grenades and burst, would like some advice - have some dilemmas since I never used bullets before:

• Rapid fire/point shot? Guessing their value skyrockets with a powerful smart module.
• DEX vs PER - guessing I'd want 12 AP SMG after reductions for 2x burst, or 11 AP for 3x burst with AS. Unsure how to weigh this considering different weapon frames and attachments, and reloading.
• Gun nut seems bad?
• Full auto worth it? Napkin tells me it beats 4 PER both with and without muzzle break for burst damage, so thinking yes, gives access to AR and SR

I can't say much about SMG builds because I never made a dedicated one (only used them as a sidearm for snipers, prefer pistols now because Gunslinger gives +7 initiative) but:

• They are less useful for SMGs than ARs because Spec Ops allows you to squeeze more bursts and leaves you with less leftover AP. Rapid Fire + Point shot are 200% AP for 4 shots, SMG burst with Spec Ops are 200% AP for 7/9. You could take one or the other if your SMG of choice leaves you with 50% or 150% AP require to shoot, but it doesn't seem essential.
• DEX has diminishing returns, so it's best to find a sweet spot where you get the most bang for the buck, rest into PER.
• It's totally not worth it to get 7 INT just to pick it. You could take it if you want 7 INT for other feats.
• I never did the exact math, but I don't think it's worth it. It might give you more damage than 4 PER, but keep in mind 4 PER means a lot more precision. That said again I never did the math so I dunno.

Probably should drop AGI to 6, switch hit and run for sprint. Guessing with something like this I might as well take Concentrated Power to be able to use AR fully.

Definitely. Sprint is sweet for any build.

Tactical vests are good because they make you outright immune to 90% of enemy gun wielders, even 2k energy shields will get drained in one or two rounds of sustained fire. Shields save you from getting one shot by snipers and grenades or electrified.

Unless it's a crafted anti-rifle vest, it won't make you immune. It might make you near-immune to SMGs and low damage pistols and take a big chunk out of high damage pistols/ARs.

I could see tactical vest + shield being a good choice for taking Fort Apogee since it's just dozens of firearm users but other that, you are never under so much fire that shield is not sufficient. They are very good until you actually get a shield or if you don't put points in electronics, too.

Problem with melee/crossbows is that they usually hit you with debilitating effects, their damage is far less of a problem compared to their CC against which effective HP isn't much help.

That's correct, but bonus HP helps you survive being under those effects. Bonus HP is also one of the very few ways to protect yourself from thought control and such. It's good against everything, not just melee.

Is cloaking device even affected by armor penalty? Guessing yes but it's kinda funny.

Yeah, it is.

Interesting thoughts on nimble with a "light" metal armor character, uniquely benefits since he can't really use black cloth gear.

The lightest metal armor possible has 29% penalty, with nimble it's only 14%, that's almost nothing. I was actually thinking about a build using it but the 8 STR requirement and the fact that it's only available later in the game make it hard to synergise with most builds. Sounds perfect for sledgehammers though.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Is detection in this game bugged? With PE 10 combined with Paranoia and tracking goggles my detection is 300+. Sneaky fucks still always have a jump on me. I can understand that with crawlers maybe with their troll attack, but even lowlife punks in random locations have godly stealth ability.
Within the same context i'l repeat my question about PE. Is it worth to rise it above 10 or maybe better invest in AG or END or smth?

 

[Sykar]

Is detection in this game bugged? With PE 10 combined with Paranoia and tracking goggles my detection is 300+. Sneaky fucks still always have a jump on me. I can understand that with crawlers maybe with their troll attack, but even lowlife punks in random locations have godly stealth ability.
Within the same context i'l repeat my question about PE. Is it worth to rise it above 10 or maybe better invest in AG or END or smth?

It merely enables you to see them before they see you but it always takes time like 2-4 seconds. I see them usually before they see having similar stats on my Ghost but I do take my time and move pretty slowly in areas infested wth stealthy fucks.

 

[Haplo]

Plus Detection is also level based, so if they are high level...