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VD's sekret projekt - the first screen evar!

Sarkile

Magister
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
1,379
Arcanum didn't allow you to choose dialogue with keys. Generally it's a cool feature, unless the game forces you to do it that way like they did in Bloodlines. That was a real pain in the ass.
 

Vykromond

Scholar
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
341
Emphatic "yes" on moron indicators. The way that you have them in the screenshot is precisely the correct way to implement them.
 

ichpokhudezh

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
179
Location
germantown, md
Dialog window: pane divider comes to the border with sharp corners, border corners have rounded look. Suppose you'll need to have a scroll bar in the upper/lower pare - it will shape the panes differently and the whole look be wrong. Having same style (e.ge rounded) corners now will alleviate the change if/when you'll need one.

3d shadows are somewhat overdone. If you can throw some grayish/alpha/adjacent (so the background/environment somewhat affects the 'shadow' it will look smoother, imo.

Numbers for choices - for usability and especially if you need a 'reaction/inner thoughts' space on top of dialog choices)

Ability to move/rollup the dialog window, if at all possible.

'Vertical' tiles (trees, people, walls, etc) - same colored parts (eg. bricks, uniform), even in the presense of irregularities should be lighter at top and darker at the bottom.

sorry if I repeat somebody else's points - no time to read the whole thread now.
 

RGE

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
773
Location
Karlstad, Sweden
I'd even want moron indicators for attack options, though not for dialogue options that make the NPC attack. It's not always as clear as it should be when an option is a threat and when it initiates combat, and the way I see it, the player should always be made aware of the PCs intention behind each dialogue option.
 

mathboy

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
666
Perhaps add the way the character says it inside the [ ] like [Persuasive] instead of persuasion, [Aggressive] if it's a threat, [Tricky] if you're trying to fool the guy and so on.
 

Reklar

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
395
Location
Port Orchard, WA, USA
You're living up to your name there, Hyperboy, but I agree, it would be nice to see another screenshot or two. ;)

-Reklar
(a Fallout/RPG fan)
 

Sarvis

Erudite
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
5,050
Location
Buffalo, NY
mathboy said:
Perhaps add the way the character says it inside the [ ] like [Persuasive] instead of persuasion, [Aggressive] if it's a threat, [Tricky] if you're trying to fool the guy and so on.

I actually like the sound of that. Could also have something like [Threat] and [Empty Threat] instead of just Aggressive though...
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
A few more screens would be nice though. I'd guess that is VD's intention anyway, as he obviously wants feedback now and in the future. The responses from the team have been good so far.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I had a long day today, so I'll just post a short update:

We added the numbers. We won't post any more screens until we fix the problems and increase the particle effectz ratio. I posted the screen for two reasons: show you that we are actually working on something to stimulate design discussions I start every now and then, and to gather some feedback. To post more screens with poor graphics would be counter productive. While we can't improve the graphics dramatically, there is a lot that could be done and added. Just don't expect some major overhaul.

We have a lot of concept art, and it looks great (you can judge by the quality of the weapon art on that screen), however, this is something that has to wait until we have a site. Anyway, some folks saw the art, they are free to post their opinions.

In regard to the intention indicators, I don't think this is a good idea. Here is an example, that persuasion line gives you an option to pay later or pay never. Which one you choose is up to you. If I add [tricky], as was suggested, that would limit the role-playing options, implying only less then honorable intent.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
If the small changes I suggest happened, I'll be happy enough with it. I am not expecting you to turn up six months later with normal mapping and other whizz-bang effects. A small bit of variation and improvement in the tiles should do it.
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
970
The concept art looks great. Some of it can even be used for character portraits as long as the images are colored. I think they have no shortage of talent when it comes to the art. I think the problem you guys have stems from having such a small team and having such a big project. It just takes a while to get all of the art assets completed. I don't doubt Vault Dweller's team will be able to release a great game. I know I'm looking forward to it.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
dojoteef said:
The concept art looks great. Some of it can even be used for character portraits as long as the images are colored. I think they have no shortage of talent when it comes to the art.
Thanks for the support, dojoteef. Means a lot to my team.

I think the problem you guys have stems from having such a small team and having such a big project.
Well, that's the kinda game I would want to play and I wouldn't want to make anything else.
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
970
Oh damn, did I agree with Vault Dweller on a public forum! I meant to say that the art is the ugliest piece of shit I have ever seen. I cannot believe you are trying to pass this off on people. I mean come on, where the 3D! It sucks getting used to 3D and having to see something in 2D. Fuck that! Heck, why aren't these forums in 3D. I want my 3D text damn you! ;)
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
While the sloppy handjobs are heading VD's way, I think I already said I was looking forward to this a while back, I still am, so good luck with it and show us some more as you progress.

Personally, I'd be shitting myself that my game is going to get torn apart by a place like this, especially with you being on staff and joining in with many a lynch mob. I'm sure the tension is there. :D
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
2,443
Location
The Lone Star State
Vault Dweller said:
In regard to the intention indicators, I don't think this is a good idea. Here is an example, that persuasion line gives you an option to pay later or pay never. Which one you choose is up to you. If I add [tricky], as was suggested, that would limit the role-playing options, implying only less then honorable intent.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to see "this is the tricky option" or "this is the aggressive option". That's when they become moron indicators.

The only time I've seen something similar where it worked was in Torment since your alignment changed depending on how you meant things ("[bluff] Tell me or I'll kill you" is chaotic, "[truth] Tell me or I'll kill you" is evil, etc.), but most of the time it shouldn't matter, unless you're dealing with a mindreader or something similar where they know your hidden intent, or if you want your character to display outward emotion ("[laugh] Yeah, you got me good, I should kill you for that one." is completely different from "[cold stare] Yeah, you got me good, I should kill you for that one.")
 

EEVIAC

Erudite
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Messages
1,186
Location
Bumfuck, Nowhere
Have you thought about doing away with the dialogue interface altogether and using floats like in Arcanum? The problem, as it is now, is that you can't see who you're talking to. In Arcanum the text floats were above or beside the NPC, which meant you still focused on the character while speaking. The other option would be to use the Fallout method and have an interface with a window that centres on the conversing NPC.

I just think that making 20 or 30 unique portraits is a bit of waste, especially when those resources could be used to diversify the tile set or add in some new animations.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
Perhaps, but on the other hand, VD's got some really terrific artists at his disposal and the portraits would just be cool. I'm one of those "some folks saw the art, they are free to post their opinions", incidentally. The general theme of the art and the game is, well, Rome. Legionnaires, Centurions and so on (not Cylons, unfortunately, because VD's too much of a pussy to make a sci-fi game for now). The art I've seen is very high quality stuff, so it's kind of a shame more of it isn't used in the interface.
 

Flink

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
220
Location
Tarant
I agree. I'm actually rather impressed by the art, although the color scheme of the interface is kinda ugly. Make it another color and I'd be pretty much sold. (Gray or something) Portraits would be cool, if they don't look like utter sheit. Arcanum really benifited from them.
 

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