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VD's sekret projekt - the first screen evar!

Llyranor

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
348
PennyAnte said:
I will want to just click the skill without reading the text.
Maybe it's just me, but I really can't see how that would benefit roleplaying in any way.
 

PennyAnte

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
769
Location
Here instead of playing an RPG.
I was talking about wanting to do that kind of thing after I've already played it several times and know what the dialogue is. After I've gone through a game three or four times I've pretty much got the dialogue memorized and want some short cuts.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
PennyAnte said:
I was talking about wanting to do that kind of thing after I've already played it several times and know what the dialogue is. After I've gone through a game three or four times I've pretty much got the dialogue memorized and want some short cuts.
Trust me, there are tons of options. Unless you would want to do the same thing over and over again, you can easily play 3-4 times having absolutely different dialogues each time. At least. I aint kidding.
 

PennyAnte

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
769
Location
Here instead of playing an RPG.
SHORTCUUUUUUTS!!!
*Stomps feet*
*Throws plates*

Vault Dweller said:
... you can easily play 3-4 times having absolutely different dialogues each time. At least.
FINE!
*Storms off*

(I will forgive you later, but for now I need some time alone.)

Vault Dweller said:
I aint kidding.
Looks over shoulder. Sees a man who just said "trust me."
*Sniffs derisively*
Taken with a grain of salt. :P
*Storms off a second time*
 

themadhatter114

Liturgist
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
309
Location
Morgantown, WV
I think that if you're going to take out the indicators and simply put things like "Persuasion check passed" in the window you should let the player know the difficulty class of the check so that he gets a sense of just how much he needs to pump into his skills. It also would be good to let the player know when he fails the checks, too, so that he can be aware that there are other ways to handle the situation were he to play with a different character (are the checks based on die rolls, or just based on your skill level?). Or if you're not going to indicate the difficulty class, at least have the checks get higher and higher. I got kind of annoyed with NWN when it became entirely useless to keep advancing certain skills, allowing me to totally max out a skill I'd completely neglected prior to that level-up.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,024
themadhatter114 said:
you should let the player know the difficulty class of the check so that he gets a sense of just how much he needs to pump into his skills.
That would kinda ruin the immersion.

It also would be good to let the player know when he fails the checks
Every situation has at least 3 ways to handle it. Those ways are logical, so if you tried to sneak in but couldn't that means you've failed the check. If there was no logically expected dialogue option that means you've failed the check.

so that he can be aware that there are other ways to handle the situation were he to play with a different character
You'll see the options when you play with a different character. Trust me.

are the checks based on die rolls, or just based on your skill level?
Skill level, and some other stuff (events, reputations, dress, etc).

Or if you're not going to indicate the difficulty class, at least have the checks get higher and higher
Goes without saying, the difficulty is tied to the value of a task. Convincing or robbing a guard is one thing, convincing or robbing the first consul is another.
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Damn, your game looks like the next best thing since torment! I've been reading a couple of the treads and the amount of thought you put on the game/features/possibilities is really great. But I guess you already knew that, so I'll throw in my opinion.

For the graphics, I believe the main thing they are lacking is shadows. Shadows make the visuals alive, it makes them whole. Now it just seems a bit bland. Atmosphere is very important in a game and light/darkness can do wonders for it. That's why I belive Fallout has great graphics but Arcanum is lacking, even if it has better technology behind it. Apart from that, the concept art is awesome. You've got talented artists, and I'm sure they know the importance of shadows :wink: Damn colors that make you blind.

About indicators, I feel they are not needed if, as you say, the different skill uses are going to be clear. They break immersion IMO by entering game mechanics in the dialogue. The one thing that bothers me is that you seem to only show the dialogue options if the check is passed. That means that in a way, you know before hand how perceptive/knowledgeable the person you're talking to is. I mean, everyone can try to bargain, every one can try to look like he knows what he's talking about, or try to look mean and intimidating. You might even be good at it, but you never know how the guy you're talking to is skilled. You might be confident in you tricks that usually work and try to do it on some guy that knows better than you.

Anyways, you are going to know if you're good at persuading because you have a certain amount of ranks in that skill. IRL, you never know if the intimidation you're doing will have the wanted effect. You have to try to know. I believe it should be the same for the game. There is already a factor of certainty because you know how good you are. A small bit of mystery would really add to the dialogue. Now, you might say that this guy isn't really good at [insert dialogue skill here], so he can't really think of this elaborate answer. The solution would be to have a "dumbed-down" version of the [insert dialogue skill here] dialogue option, so the player feels like he still has the choice to try, even it there's good chances he might fail.

I don't know if what I said is very clear. In brief words, you are going to know how good you are at certain things anyways (skill ranks) and be able to judge if the option might work or not depending on the situation. If you only show the succeeded options, dialogue loses much of its meaning, the importance of decisions you make. You are removing the possibility to fail! That's not a good thing IMO. Always winning when you know you can't fail isn't rewarding as much as winning when you could fail.

That's pretty much it.
Oh, and it's my first post BTW, so hi.
 

Mangler

Novice
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
67
I like the art, graphics and the layout. Its got that special 'we don't need no stinkin' particle effects' look, which implies the game might actually be good.


Where can I find out more info about this game?

especially its setting, and combat.

edit: ooops... I did not see I was in a new forum.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Ismaul said:
I've been reading a couple of the treads and the amount of thought you put on the game/features/possibilities is really great.
Well, that's what I've always liked in games, and that's what I missed the most ever since games became all about graphics.

For the graphics, I believe the main thing they are lacking is shadows. Shadows make the visuals alive, it makes them whole.
I'll take a note of that, thanks.

I mean, everyone can try to bargain...
True, but I thought that bargaining when you have 0% chance to succeed is pointless. It adds nothing to gameplay, imo.

IRL, you never know if the intimidation you're doing will have the wanted effect. You have to try to know. I believe it should be the same for the game. There is already a factor of certainty because you know how good you are. A small bit of mystery would really add to the dialogue.
Good point. I will consider that, and most likely do it that way. Perhaps, setting up a min skill requirement to indicate the interest of a player in that skill (which would add related dialogue lines) is the best way to handle that.

The solution would be to have a "dumbed-down" version of the [insert dialogue skill here] dialogue option, so the player feels like he still has the choice to try, even it there's good chances he might fail.
I've tried to have low Int/skill dialogue versions, but there are tons of dialogues in the game and the dumb version basically doubles it.

That's pretty much it.
Oh, and it's my first post BTW, so hi.
Well, thanks for the thoughts and support, and welcome to the forums.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Mangler said:
I like the art, graphics and the layout. Its got that special 'we don't need no stinkin' particle effects' look, which implies the game might actually be good.
Hopefully.

Where can I find out more info about this game?
We don't have a site yet, we need to start a proper game dev business first, and I don't have time for that right now. Doesn't mean that I can't answer your questions though.

So, what would you like to know about the setting and combat?
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
Patron
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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Vault Dweller said:
[about dialogue options requiering skills] Perhaps, setting up a min skill requirement to indicate the interest of a player in that skill (which would add related dialogue lines) is the best way to handle that.
Seems like a good way to me.

I talked about shadows earlier, so I photoshopped the screenshot so you can compare. I'm not an experiencied artist and did that fast, so it's a bit crude. For everything exceptthe interface, I upped the contrast, and lowered the brightness and saturation to compensate. I added some shadows to the scenery (trees, rocks, walls). I didn't add them on the NPCs because I don't think you can have realistic shadows on moving "objects" in 2d (am I wrong?). The interface it's pretty much only some color burn on the edges. What do you think?


aoddialoguemod6rj.jpg
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Ismaul said:
What do you think?
I think it looks much better then before. We've already improved or replaced many graphical elements. I'm not sure about shadows at this point though (graphics aint my area), but I will see what we can do. Thanks.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
I really like the touched up GUI/Dialgogue window Ismaul posted.You could try to make it look even more like parchment.
 

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