VoiceGate: Videogame voice actors considering a strike, want to unionize

[pakoito]

Protip: The solution begins with "Ham" and ends with "ickel"

I don't get it.

Bolshevik revolution?

 

[Higher Animal]

He gets it.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

It's funny to me that the media supports VO worker strikes and hollywood strikes, but I can imagine the media reaction if all programmers had a strike. Already you mention H1B program and you will get banned from most tech boards and called a racist.Racist hate group attacks hard working immigrants!

One more thing to show the 'left' that has taken over democrats is about slavery, not for the people in any way. If they really did support unions and labor laws then I would feel much differently, but being pro-immigration is the death of the middle class.

A strike sounds good the problem though, is there is no closed system. When you already have an endless stream of h1b scabs replacing native programmers, then how can you really strike against anything? MOST of the legal immigration to the country is H1B and most of it is to replace techies and programmers. Another exciting aspect is that most of the doctors are now thirdworlders as well.

Anyway for me it is another story as I have not worked for someone as an employee for many years, but it really is a shit industry overall. But I am sure it still depresses the wages I would otherwise make - meanwhile idiots in middle management rake in huge salary for just existing. They would rather pay ten incompetent people 5x the money it would take to hire one really competent person, even if it leads to much worse results.

 

[Excidium II]

Gimme your jobs.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

It's funny to me that the media supports VO worker strikes and hollywood strikes, but I can imagine the media reaction if all programmers had a strike. Already you mention H1B program and you will get banned from most tech boards and called a racist.Racist hate group attacks hard working immigrants!

A strike sounds good the problem though, is there is no closed system. When you already have an endless stream of h1b scabs replacing native programmers, then how can you really strike against anything? MOST of the legal immigration to the country is H1B and most of it is to replace techies and programmers. Another exciting aspect is that most of the doctors are now thirdworlders as well.

Anyway for me it is another story as I have not worked for someone as an employee for many years, but it really is a shit industry overall. But I am sure it still depresses the wages I would otherwise make - meanwhile idiots in middle management rake in huge salary for just existing. They would rather pay ten incompetent people 5x the money it would take to hire one really competent person, even if it leads to much worse results.

Fuck the media. It's much easier to get anti-union propaganda stories into the news than positive accounts of unions fighting for the workers. The media is not left wing, the media is the tool of those who own in. They tend to be affluent urbanites, the type of people who benefit from the divide and conquer tactics of which the H1B is one example. Also, FYI organized labor has fought against the H1B and continues to do so. For example - http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...h-workers-afl-cio-editorials-debates/2367769/

 

[J1M]

If developers and/or programmers think that they are underpaid/overworked they should form a fucking union and strike themselves. Fighting union efforts by VAs is just cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

When it comes to residuals, there is only 100% of gross profits. Each group (publisher, retailer, executives) that gets a slice of the pie reduces the size of the remaining piece that can be handed out. Developers allowing voice actors to get residuals now guarantees they will receive smaller residuals if they ever manage to get some in the future.

 

[Grimlorn]

How much does the average voice actor earn in the gaming industry and what is the minimum someone earns? How long do voice actors work on average as well? No one is discussing this stuff.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

When it comes to residuals, there is only 100% of gross profits. Each group (publisher, retailer, executives) that gets a slice of the pie reduces the size of the remaining piece that can be handed out. Developers allowing voice actors to get residuals now guarantees they will receive smaller residuals if they ever manage to get some in the future.

First, my point is not about what devs or VAs deserve. VA have chosen to organize. If that is a more effective bargaining strategy, then devs and programmers should adopt it, not complain about it.

Second, although more mouths does mean a smaller amount per mouth theoretically, that assumes that the maximum amount which can be shifted towards employee compensation (while keeping the firm viable) has been shifted, which is not usually the case (as shown by the divide between management and labor salaries). A better organized labor force would get more from their employers generally, even if there were multiple worker segments to divide it amongst. In industries where different segments are covered by different unions, those segments still have higher overall compensation than they would without unions.

 

[Higher Animal]

Unions are parasites that are attempts to form monopolies. People generally recognize that monopolies are bad and an attempt for the businesses to increase their profits by decreasing competition, but for some reason labor monopolies are good, even though they are still attempts to increase profits by decreasing competition. In either case it is the consumer who has to pay more. It's not about workers demanding their fair share, it's about workers demanding that the consumer pay more so they can get greater compensation.

I have no problem with employees being able to collectively bargain, as long as the employer is not limited in his options he has when bargaining with them. Including firing them and hiring someone else if they want more money than he thinks is reasonable. Chances are if the employer can find someone else to do the same work at a quality the employer considers acceptable for less money then the money they are asking for is unreasonable.

Unions only exist because they get special legal protections forcing the employers to deal with the unions instead of being free to exercise all their options.

Quite unusually retarded and illiterate coming from you.

Unions don't have special protections, they instead have circumscribed rights limiting their freedom of action. Capitalists have waged coercive wars against Unions since their inception in order to pad their bank accounts. The US even has a special law limiting union's ability to organize contracts in a non-coercive free market.

The entitlement that gluttonous dorito and diet coke swilling consumers have to demand lower prices is laughable. Low prices = low quality. The inability for the parasitical rentier to create value other than through manipulation and entitlement means they are ill-suited to execute decisions in the realm of human endeavor. The reason why actually good CEOs come from literate stocks of engineers, physicists, and humanities majors is because they are skilled in the art of actual innovation and value creation and deliver high quality products that actually progress society.

If the faggotty consumers of electronic entertainment products were themselves value creators then they'd recognize the source of value and start paying developers more money to deliver higher quality content. Smart people avoid game development because publishers have made the retarded consumer their primary market. The average vidya consumer is the rich kid who got every console for christmas and the retired military grunt soaking in 50% of the government's largesse.

 

[Excidium II]

If the faggotty consumers of electronic entertainment products were themselves value creators then they'd recognize value and start paying developers more money to deliver higher quality content.

what the fuck?

 

[Higher Animal]

what the fuck?

Should read, "the source of".

 

[Davaris]

The way I understand it, if I risk my money to make a game, these VA want me to pay them and give them a share of the profits. So I take a risk and they get some of the profits if there are any. That leads me to a question. Do they pay me something if the game loses money? Perhaps developers need to unionize too.

 

[Excidium II]

Unions for everyone

 

[Metro]

How much does the average voice actor earn in the gaming industry and what is the minimum someone earns? How long do voice actors work on average as well? No one is discussing this stuff.

Because as soon as they do people will realize it's laughable for them to be complaining.

 

[Grimlorn]

Because as soon as they do people will realize it's laughable for them to be complaining.

Well off hand the gaming industry is a shitty place to work. Devs get bent over a barrel because they are a bunch of manginas. It's no wonder SJWs have manipulated a lot of them with their social justice BS ideology. But if devs aren't getting residuals, I don't see why voice actors should get them. Games were fun before voice acting and voice acting isn't necessary imo. I kind of liked the old voice acting in games from 15 years ago anyways. Sometimes it was cheesy but it still sounded good. Everything is so bland these days and there are very few good voice actors out there from what I see.

 

[Higher Animal]

The way I understand it, if I risk my money to make a game, these VA want me to pay them and give them a share of the profits. So I take a risk and they get some of the profits if there are any. That leads me to a question. Do they pay me something if the game loses money? Perhaps developers need to unionize too.

Labor theory of value always finds a way, even in the dullest of reactionaries.

 

[J1M]

First, my point is not about what devs or VAs deserve. VA have chosen to organize. If that is a more effective bargaining strategy, then devs and programmers should adopt it, not complain about it.

Second, although more mouths does mean a smaller amount per mouth theoretically, that assumes that the maximum amount which can be shifted towards employee compensation (while keeping the firm viable) has been shifted, which is not usually the case (as shown by the divide between management and labor salaries). A better organized labor force would get more from their employers generally, even if there were multiple worker segments to divide it amongst. In industries where different segments are covered by different unions, those segments still have higher overall compensation than they would without unions.

Bullshit. If voice actors don't want developers against them then they need to present their job action in a way that will garner support instead of derision.

 

[Daemongar]

We've had plenty of neoliberals ruining America. One of the recent batch who managed to single-handedly impede an entire state's economic development was running for president until he quit due to unpopularity and fear of his record being exposed on a national stage.

Yeah, that guy, with a 4.6% unemployment in his state! That balanced budget year after year! Those taxes being lowered every year! Fear of record being exposed on a national stage... that's a good one. Impede his states economic development - that's a good one. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

If the faggotty consumers of electronic entertainment products were themselves value creators then they'd recognize the source of value and start paying developers more money to deliver higher quality content.

People recognize two things - how much money they have and how much they are willing to spend for a particular product. Period. There's nothing you can do about it (outside of putting a gun to someones head and saying "it's worth this much and you will buy it for this price or die!"). You basically are butthurt about how human mind operates. And how human mind operates is the reason why the theory is just a theory.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I haven't looked in-depth at what the unions are demanding, but some of the things they ask seem only right and fair, mostly the demands relating to keeping the voice healthy and undamaged. But a majority of their demands are just ludicrous.

And yes, voice actors get stupidly well paid. I know someone who got paid close to $550 for 10 seconds of voice acting in the late 70s. That's $3300 an hour. That same guy (who's retired now) did the math and concluded that he'd own a small country or two if they had kept that hourly wage for the rest of his career.

 

[Talby]

I'll be fine with whatever demands they come up with as long as there's a clause saying Troy Baker is banned from the industry.

 

[Higher Animal]

Yeah, that guy, with a 4.6% unemployment in his state! That balanced budget year after year! Those taxes being lowered every year! Fear of record being exposed on a national stage... that's a good one. Impede his states economic development - that's a good one. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Please tell me you're a Brazillian or German or any other kind of Third Worlder. If you are an American, I hope you don't vote.

Let me just frame the argument in a way so you can understand it.

Minnesota, which went in the diametrically opposite direction from dumb dumb beta boy, has actually balanced the budget (unlike Wisconsin's perpetual shortfall), increased wages, job growth, and public spending. 100% of Wisconsin's gains are due to gains in the NATIONAL economy, and 100% of Wisconsin's failure is due to dumb dumb beta boy.

Therefore, Scott Walker has impeded economic development of his state by objective measures. What Scott Walker has done is make the people who vote for him wealthy. This means that he is not a leader of a state but a stooge of special interests.

Donald Trump was going to expose this cretin on national TV.

Scott Walker quit because none of the people who support him want his record blasted to smithereens on a national scale. Every single media outlet will be blowing the horns of Wisconsin's mismanagement. He's a fucking liability when put under a spotlight.

The people who support him are either stupid or dishonest. No exceptions.

 

[Higher Animal]

People recognize two things - how much money they have and how much they are willing to spend for a particular product. Period. There's nothing you can do about it (outside of putting a gun to someones head and saying "it's worth this much and you will buy it for this price or die!"). You basically are butthurt about how human mind operates. And how human mind operates is the reason why the theory is just a theory.

I didn't say people should be "forced" to buy anything, just that if they don't want to spend money the product quality is going to be shit. I am freely lambasting stupid people in this thread, shaming and mocking them for their idiotic opinions. The hope there is to get them to understand where value comes from and how to facilitate its growth rather than descend into the abyss of consumerist dystopia.

The butthurt is all yours, mon cherie.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

It is telling that as the manufacturing of the world shifted out of unionized environments over the last 30-40 years manufacturing quality has simultaneously declined precipitously.

Bullshit. If voice actors don't want developers against them then they need to present their job action in a way that will garner support instead of derision.

Still not an argument against programmer/dev unionization as a better solution than complaining about VAs.

 

[Daemongar]

Please tell me you're a Brazillian or German or any other kind of Third Worlder. If you are an American, I hope you don't vote.

Let me just frame the argument in a way so you can understand it.

Minnesota, which went in the diametrically opposite direction from dumb dumb beta boy, has actually balanced the budget (unlike Wisconsin's perpetual shortfall), increased wages, job growth, and public spending. 100% of Wisconsin's gains are due to gains in the NATIONAL economy, and 100% of Wisconsin's failure is due to dumb dumb beta boy.

Therefore, Scott Walker has impeded economic development of his state by objective measures. What Scott Walker has done is make the people who vote for him wealthy. This means that he is not a leader of a state but a stooge of special interests.

Donald Trump was going to expose this cretin on national TV.

Scott Walker quit because none of the people who support him want his record blasted to smithereens on a national scale. Every single media outlet will be blowing the horns of Wisconsin's mismanagement. He's a fucking liability when put under a spotlight.

The people who support him are either stupid or dishonest. No exceptions.

Wisconsin's economy is doing well because of the NATIONAL economy but Minnesota is doing well because... uh... they don't have Scott Walker. Minnesota balanced their budget because of fairy magic, Wisconsin balanced their budget because of the NATIONAL economy. Glad you framed it for me, I might have actually thought about this for more than 2 seconds and seen how fucking stupid your argument is.

But still .. you don't have any.. you know, facts to back this up? Just talking points which people can get anywhere. He's dumb! Anyone who disagrees is dumb! Wow! I'll be honest, it really doesn't sound like you ever read anything about this. Other than petty insults, and calling people dumb, you don't seem to have too much to say.

Why would anyone listen to your opinion on labor unions and political events if you are just some partisan hack?