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Vote for AoD!

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Whipporowill said:
Come on, it's 700 or so votes for AoD - it's not like it has to be rigged in any fashion? It's just possible that those that vote for AoD are more inlcined to give it 3 or more votes. That's 230~ people giving it 3 votes per person... shouldn't it take more votes to get the conspiracy theorists going? :roll:

I don't mean rigged as in hacked, I simply doubt that any of the other games forums had noticed this poll, or the results would be skewed accordingly. Say I'd post the link on the gothic 3 forums... Polls like this are for shit anyway, I remember the NWN2 vs. MW pissing contests on polls like this all too well. Nevertheless, as I said, I like the result. :)
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
On behalf of crpg.ru editorial team, I can tell you one thing: the votes will get cut. Every codexian (me included) who voted for AoD will be counted in accord to the number of users that posted in this here thread. Me, I don't like all those ratings-batings, but I respect other people here and at crpg.ru (for whom these ratings do matter, perhaps), and most of all I respect AoD and think that such a scam would only earn this great project a bad name at crpg.ru (and RUnet in general). It may not be the case, but you never know. As you might know, AoD does have future in Russian-speaking countries, as there were already offers from the publishers.

Moreover, I myself have done a good job at pimping AoD at RPGplanet.ru, and now that I'm at CRPG.ru, I'll continue to do so there. I'm planning a good feature on the game, along, perhaps, with a pre-release interview.

There's really no need to resort to such childish scams.

And yet, I do understand that this whole affair is more of a way of saying "thank you VD your team's doing the right thing" -- and hell, I wholeheartedly agree. I think the needed effect is achieved, so we can call it a day. Show's over, take five, comrades.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
What scam? I don't think anyone here voted twice. We just all used multiple votes for the same game. If your system doesn't catch that, it's your fault. All that's happened is that AoD's fan community was mobilized, those of all the other games weren't.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
Well, be it as it may, my cheif's resolute on cutting the votes and I wont really start arguing with him about something so puny and inconsequent.

Come to think of it, yeah, I think the system's deisng that way so the sudden surplus of votes pretty much catapults the game to the top in no time.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
metallix said:
the votes will get cut. Every codexian (me included) who voted for AoD will be counted in accord to the number of users that posted in this here thread.
I don't understand it. I've voted once, AoD got one vote (AoD, Frater, DivDiv2, G3, Witcher) and let's say 20-30 people posted in this thread. What's the outcome?

How can you calculate if a person gave all their votes for AoD or only one?
 

John Yossarian

Magister
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,000
Location
Pianosa
I guess they could just take some other game's (or an average) votes per person and asign that to AoD. But the voting page did say it was OK to vote for the same game more than once, so I don't know what the "scam" is.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
@ metallix.

It's lame. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if AoD gets moved from the undeserved #1 to a more fitting position. Everyone understands that even if every vote is genuine, only 723 people voted for the game, which doesn't represent anything, least of all the entire Russian population. A better way to handle it would be asking more people to vote and before you know Gothic and Obsidian fans will reestablish the proper order.

As for the # of votes, the system allows it and even encourages it. That's why there are multiple stats - number of people and number of votes. It's not the best system, but that's what CRPG.ru decided to run with. Changing it now - because a wrong game has won - is lame and petty.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
The very fact that *codexians* (predominantly NON-Russian-speaking audience) voted the most *is*, all by itself, a sort of a fraud.
It'slike, I dunno, getting all the jews vote on a fascist site or something. That's just ain't right, from the statistcs standpoint.
Yes, we have an English section on our site, which I provide with translations of our best features -- but that doesn't mean we are an international CRPG site. (the feature translation is geared towards spreading our info through the english media).

VD dont get me wrong either, I really want AoD to be ranked high among the RPGs, but I also want to know if *our* audience is interested in it -- I already know that Codexians are.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
metallix said:
There's really no need to resort to such childish scams.
Where's the scam? People just voted according to the system there. I don't think anyone voted more than once (other than the allowed multiple voting system).

Having said that, I don't think it makes sense to organize the system as you have - i.e. allowing 5 votes for the same game, and ranking accoring to the total.

Given that there's clearly a way to calculate the average votes per person, why not use e.g.:
Score increase = (votes ^ 0.5)
or something similar

That way, each repeat vote for the same game would add less than the last. People could still vote two or three times for the same game if they really liked it, but they'd be contributing less and less with each repetition.

The above would give:
1 vote = 1 point
2 votes = 1.41 points
3 votes = 1.73 points
4 votes = 2 points
5 votes = 2.24 points


You shouldn't blame a "scam" for your broken system though. All that's happened here is that many codexers have heard about the poll and voted. Given the amount of members here, and the fact that multiple votes are allowed, getting a couple of thousand in no way implies any scam.

You should suggest fixing the voting system though - either don't allow repeats, or reduce the impact of each repeat vote.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
See my post above.

metallix said:
The very fact that *codexians* (predominantly NON-Russian-speaking audience) voted the most *is*, all by itself, a sort of a fraud.
Really? Does it say "Russians only"?

It'slike, I dunno, getting all the jews vote on a fascist site or something. That's just ain't right, from the statistcs standpoint.
From the statistics point of view the site asked players to vote for different games, combining Russian and English games, judging by the names. That's what happened. Like I said, it looks like a wrong game has won, which is embarrassing for the site, so the votes are teh illegal now. Cool.

Edit: The system isn't broken. Here is a rough translation of the voting page:

"Choose 5 games. You can choose one game several times, in which case it would get as many votes as the number of times you vote for it. "
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
I say it again:
VD dont get me wrong either, I really want AoD to be ranked high among the RPGs, but I also want to know if *our* audience is interested in it -- I already know that Codexians are.

combining Russian and English games,
Irrelevant. The origin of a game is absolutely not important, because most are translated anyway.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
metallix said:
I say it again:
VD dont get me wrong either, I really want AoD to be ranked high among the RPGs, but I also want to know if *our* audience is interested in it -- I already know that Codexians are.
Interested in what? AoD being ranked high? I doubt. Anyway, there is a simple solution - invite the russkies to vote for their favorite games, and if I'm not grossly misinformed about the size of the Russian population, AoD will be moved in no time.

combining Russian and English games,
Irrelevant. The origin of a game is absolutely not important, because most are translated anyway.
I meant that the names weren't translated, which made the list accessible to the English speaking audience.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
Fair enough. Well, RPG Codex is registered in the United States, so from now on, only Americans can read it. Some foreigners may be issued visas to allow them to continue reading the site. I'd elaborate, but I was turned down when I applied for one myself.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
metallix said:
...but I also want to know if *our* audience is interested in it -- I already know that Codexians are.
Then why not require registration in order to vote?

At the very least, why not actually tell people what you want? I.e. politely request that only regular uses of the site / Russians vote in polls.

At the moment, the polls are open for anyone to vote, without any ifs or buts. If you want an open site, don't complain. If you want only regular users to vote, at least say so.


VD: perhaps the voting system is not broken in the sense that it works as intended. It's still a bad system though. It encourages voting many times for your favourite game, rather than spreading votes over many (which would probably yield more interesting results).

Allowing 2 or 3 votes for one game is arguably sensible. Allowing 5 without adjusting the weighting just makes it a bad system.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
Interested in what? AoD being ranked high?
Interested in the game, awaiting it, wanting to play it when it gets done. Gawd, am I *that* ambivalent?
And I can assure you - there are quite a few russians (postsoviets) that are greately interested in the game.

Isn't it useful for *you*, as AoD's creator, to know how much interest you get from Russian-speaking audience?

My point is that international audience wasnt' supposed to vote there, at least not in such scale, let alone the fiery RPGCodex. Don't you know already that we love your project?

VD: perhaps the voting system is not broken in the sense that it works as intended. It's still a bad system though. It encourages voting many times for your favourite game, rather than spreading votes over many (which would probably yield more interesting results).

Allowing 2 or 3 votes for one game is arguably sensible. Allowing 5 without adjusting the weighting just makes it a bad system.
Agreed. I don't like it either.
 

Jon

Scholar
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
105
metallix said:
On behalf of crpg.ru editorial team, I can tell you one thing: the votes will get cut.

Democracy in Russia not all it cracked up to be? :)
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
People, get over it. This site has many visitors and you specifically asked to vote for AoD. That does screw up the statistics.

...

Substracting in accordance with posts here is... meh... I would dig up apache log and grep for codex as a referrer.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
Okay, I might arrange so that they don't get cut. Fuck the statistics, to hell with calculating interest in AoD among russian-speakers.

A conundrum I'm facing here: we either cut the votes and piss out english-speakers or we let the Aod stay there, thereby making russian folks think this is a rig.

Anyways, I'll try to reach a compromise.
 

John Yossarian

Magister
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,000
Location
Pianosa
I don't think anyone is gonna be pissed if you cut the votes, people got upset because you said it was a scam while the site never said anything about russian gamers being the only ones who were supposed to vote. I say get the link or database entry working, delete the votes to pre Codex voting levels and it should be even.
 

Deathy

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Messages
793
Vault Dweller said:
Really? Does it say "Russians only"?

That the website is in Russian sort of implies that, I think.
 

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