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KickStarter Washington sues Kickstarted game creator who failed to deliver

Liston

Augur
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
200
The suit alleges that Edward J. Polchlepek III (aka Ed Nash) and his company, Altius Management, failed to make good on a successful Kickstarter campaign for Asylum Playing Cards.

The project beat its original $15,000 goal to raise $25,146 by the time it ended in October 2012. The Attorney General's office alleges Polchlepek and Altius collected the money and neglected to deliver either the cards or the various backer rewards. Some of those backers live in the state of Washington, which allows the state's legal team to get involved.

This lawsuit could finally give an answer to a question that is frequently debated on gaming forums: "What are the legal responsibilities of kickstarted projects toward their backers?"

You can read the full article here.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Uh oh.

There goes the retirement plan.

Seriously though, will be interesting to see the results. The number of Kickstarter projects that have either failed outright after funding or, worse, have taken the money and ran, is small, but not insignificant, and is always a concern, especially for small projects run by individuals without much of a track record. But, I do expect that one has to be able to demonstrate that those running a given project never intended to deliver in the first place, for any legal action to be considered.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
You'd think that any intentional scams would be done with a fake identity, and that any money collected would have disappeared as soon as the kickstarter was done. Then just string the backers along with vague updates until the money trail has gone cold.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
A Kickstarter going belly-up is part of the risk you take, but outright fraud would be something else entirely.
Much as sea said, I guess you would have to find proof that their Kickstarter was fraudulent, before suing them, however.
Then again - if the people behind a Kickstarter can't produce any meaningful proof that they did, in fact, get any meaningful work done, wouldn't it be enough for that?
 

Baron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
2,887
A Kickstarter going belly-up is part of the risk you take, but outright fraud would be something else entirely.
Much as sea said, I guess you would have to find proof that their Kickstarter was fraudulent, before suing them, however.
It's not fraud related, which the police would prosecute (and would involve a deception like false names). It's civil action for failing to honour a business contract. Failing to deliver as per the terms of the kickstarter pledge rewards would be enough to run afoul of these consumer protection laws. Nice one, Washington (particularly the <=$2,000 fine per violation).

At least it will force people to better consider what they can deliver, particularly higher tiers well beyond the resources of small teams. And obviously cut down on grabs for cash with no intent (or ability) to deliver.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
It's civil action for failing to honour a business contract. Failing to deliver as per the terms of the kickstarter pledge rewards would be enough to run afoul of these consumer protection laws.

Interesting, I always considered KS to be some sort of risk capital - you can get something out of it, but you aren't guaranteed that it will work 100% as promised, as there's always the chance that something goes worng. Caveat emptor and all that.
But admittedly I'm not exaclty well versed in laws, esp. US law.
 
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Baron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
2,887
I'm not an expert, but buyer beware still means you received the car even though it's a lemon. Where the guy takes your money and you don't get the car.... that's not caveat emptor. That's lawyer time.

Given that consumer protection laws allow buyers to get refunds on defective products (or those unfit for purpose) they should provide refunds for products never received.
 
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Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
I just wondered because I always thought that you don't buy a finished product through Kickstarter (with clear characteristics), but rather you invest money into the posibility of a product. But that's probably part of the problem: It is, as of now, unclear what rights Kickstarter backers really have when push comes to shove.
In the long run something like that was probably necessary...
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
It depends entirely on what the statutory law is in Washington.
 

Baron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
2,887
I just wondered because I always thought that you don't buy a finished product through Kickstarter (with clear characteristics), but rather you invest money into the posibility of a product...
Apparently not.

The AGO lawsuit is against Edward J. Polchlepek III, otherwise known as Ed Nash, and his company, Altius Management, who ran the “Asylum Playing Cards” crowdfunding campaign in 2012 through a crowdfunding service called Kickstarter. Under Kickstarter’s terms of use, consumers who back a Kickstarter project make a financial pledge in exchange for an agreed upon product or “reward” that the project is legally required to deliver.

In this case, consumers pledged funds in exchange for decks of playing cards featuring a retro-horror theme and other similar items. The AGO alleges Polchlepek and Altius took consumer money and failed to deliver the promised playing cards and other rewards to these consumers.

http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=32072#.U2PxivldUYE
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,473
I havent seen one decent game to come out thanks to kickstarter.
 

Xeon

Augur
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,858
I don't think this applies to the big projects, Obsidian, InXile, Larian, DoubleFine and other similar well known devs since they are risking their reputations I think.

Someone on Reddit said this might end up setting a precedent and maybe cause problems for some projects if they failed balancing budget to real expectations and ended up failing a stretch goal or something.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
I don't think this applies to the big projects, Obsidian, InXile, Larian, DoubleFine and other similar well known devs since they are risking their reputations I think.

Someone on Reddit said this might end up setting a precedent and maybe cause problems for some projects if they failed balancing budget to real expectations and ended up failing a stretch goal or something.
So Schaefer is getting sued next?
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
I don't think this applies to the big projects, Obsidian, InXile, Larian, DoubleFine and other similar well known devs since they are risking their reputations I think.

Someone on Reddit said this might end up setting a precedent and maybe cause problems for some projects if they failed balancing budget to real expectations and ended up failing a stretch goal or something.
So Schaefer is getting sued next?
He will just argue that backers are playing it wrong.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Can someone sue a kickstarter for fake advertisement? I'm crazy to see someone suing Double Fine for all that cheap money grabbing for hipster wellfare.
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
I don't think this applies to the big projects, Obsidian, InXile, Larian, DoubleFine and other similar well known devs since they are risking their reputations I think.
This could potentially lead to a vicious cycle where indie devs are not trusted and backers will only flock to larger companies (for which the campaigns are a means of bypassing the publisher and retaining all intellectual rights), which goes against the spirit of crowdfunding.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
I don't think this applies to the big projects, Obsidian, InXile, Larian, DoubleFine and other similar well known devs since they are risking their reputations I think.
This could potentially lead to a vicious cycle where indie devs are not trusted and backers will only flock to larger companies (for which the campaigns are a means of bypassing the publisher and retaining all intellectual rights), which goes against the spirit of crowdfunding.
The spirit of crowdfunding most certainly did not start with games, as they did not start with building steel bridges over the Mississipi. If games, bar the biggest projects, prove to be a no go area for crowdfunding, it is because of the unfortunate ineptitude of indy developers as well as the expectations that people set up for their baby projects. Imagine the horror if the biggest projects merely got what they asked for.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,765
I havent seen one decent game to come out thanks to kickstarter.

Because you only see news about KS scams and similiar, nobody cared about released stuff.
FTL? Also - Chivalry, Expedition: Conquistador and Xenonauts.
 

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