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What specifically makes an Old School FPS an Old School FPS?

Carrion

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Having to find cover and hide to heal is hell of a lot more realistic than just poping a healpack when your liver has just been shot and going on your way without a slightest pause.
Nope. Health packs can at least be seen as a very crude abstraction of how things actually work (i.e. if you get shot, you need to do something to that wound), whereas health regeneration in a shooter context goes against all basic logic, as you can take an infinite amount of hits without being hampered in any way as long as the hits don't come in too rapid a succession. Realism simply doesn't come to play as far as regenerating health is concerned, and it was never the reason it became the norm in shooters. Halo was one of the first really successful shooters that had health regeneration, and even it used a sci-fi armor/shield system to explain it away. The first Call of Duty still had health packs and medics as far as I remember, which certainly was more believeable than the regenerating health that was introduced in the sequel. A more likely reason for regenerating health is to get rid of all that pesky resource management, which is especially hard to get right in a linear corridor. You don't want the player hitting a checkpoint with only one hit point, after all.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Nope. Health packs can at least be seen as a very crude abstraction of how things actually work

Yeah, running around freely after being nearly shot to death, and healing instantly while under fire and still taking bullets, is definitely how things actually work.
 

Carrion

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Yeah, running around freely after being nearly shot to death, and healing instantly while under fire and still taking bullets, is definitely how things actually work.
It's just the effect of adrenalin, which would actually be a better explanation for health generation than what modern shooters have. You can keep getting shot as long as you keep moving, instead of the whole "sit behind a box for a while" thing.
:troll:
 

kek

JavelinRL
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- modern FPS are designed for realism

As Carrion points out this isn't true but I do agree. Modern FPS try to appear realistic but don't really care about realism - ergo regenerating health.

Let's take this argument to the extreme: back in the days of the 8-bit consoles like the Atari a game absolutely had to be fun. There was nothing else to fall back on. Graphics, sound, everything was so limited that if a game wasn't fun it was bad. Nowadays a game can be awful in terms of gameplay but that fact can be well hidden behind last-generation graphics, voice acting, cinematics, orchestral soundtracks and a dozen other elements that accompany the game but have nothing to do with gameplay. They actually detract from it at times - imagine for example a no-game that is all cutscenes.

One other thing I've been wondering about since reading this thread yesterday is that perhaps detracting from gameplay could actually be a development strategy. With production costs nowaday so high, comparable to Hollywood movies making the actual game could be more expensive than producing cutscenes and quick-time events. I mean, machinima is something teenagers do for free on YouTube with Garry's Mod, how expensive can it be to produce a bunch of cutscenes and hire some voice actors, in comparison to actually creating an entire 3D game world as big as Fallout's?

that one hallway in Unreal, where the lights suddenly were blown out and then that Skaarj jumped on you.

This one and the window-jumping zombie hounds on that corridor on Resident Evil 1 nearly made me have a nervous breakdown as a youngster :D I'm not sure current-day me would not have had a heart attack! What an awesome game, with the dynamic music and cool weapons and perfect progression. I really loved it. Unfortunately I went back to it maybe a year or two ago and it has aged badly, the graphics don't hold up even in nostalgia and the gameplay feels old-school but not the best example of it. I think Doom and Half-life 1 have aged better at it.
 

kek

JavelinRL
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Health packs can at least be seen as a very crude abstraction of how things actually work

Take Call of Cthulhu: Darkest Corners of the Earth for example. You have health packs in that game and they take a metric-shit-ton of time to use. You character has to sit down, open the thing and actually apply the bandages. Of course it is still quicker than tending wounds in real life but maybe not even that much so (for lesser wounds anyway).

My point being: you can actually make the health-pack abstraction more realist, to the point it's close to reality. There are many ways you can stop someone from bleeding to death in the battlefield, which is your worst problem after being hurt. Infection and everything else settles in later on. Also broken bones can be at least mitigated with a splint so you can move on.

There is absolutely no way you can make health regeneration more realistic unless you're using X-Men buzzwords or deflector shields - at which point the realism concept is being badly abused anyway.
 

DeepOcean

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Old school shooters:
Don't fucking wait for seargent McDude to open a fucking door while he talks inanities about evil russian terrorists.
Don't fucking stay glued to the ground while shooting over hordes of defenseless enemies on forced turret sections.
Don't fucking shoot the same ruskie evil terrorist, Alahu Snackbars or Dindus from the start to finish, variation on enemy types and enemy placement is crucial.
Don't make enemies that you headshot with a .50 cal machinegun to the head and they just fall on the ground as if nothing happened as if they died of an heart attack, you shoot dudes, there must be feedback. Half the fun of shooting on real life is seeing the damage you've done, same on games.
Shitty arenas with hundreds of enemies doesn't make a shooter old school, level design is crucial, good level design allow for smart use of enemies to surprise the player. If you make shitty arenas over and over, the gameplay will start getting boring and stale pretty quick.
Don't make the player to wait hidden behind a corner like a little bitch while his health recovers, if he is a scrub and can't avoid shots, he must start learning or give up on gamming, fucking carebear idiots should euthanize themselves to make the gene pool better. If you wait behind cover, you aren't shooting or moving and this break the pace of the game.
Levels must have a theme and look like a real place, even if highly abstracted, you are fighing on a strip club, you are fighting on a demon infested hell base and no, only idiots use their imagination to do the job of developers after paying them 60 dollars, I won't imagine the corridor, intestine level I'm playing it is more than a gamey corridor, lazy intestine level. Im not fighting on a military base but on a Disney railroaded theme park.
Enemies shouldn't have only hitscan weapons and be able to murder you if you don't hug your nose to a wall, circle strafing bullets isn't realistic but regenerating .50 cal wounds isn't too but the former is much more fun than the latter.
Health packs are good because they stimulate the player to avoid getting shot as the player has to make use of a limited resource while giving him some room to make some mistakes. Fucking adding medkits that heal your whole health on every fucking room isn't much better than waiting for the health to regenrate, med kits on thmselves don't make a shooter old school, only if the medkits do their supposed mission of being a limited resource.
You are a circle strafing killing machine, killing armies, the gameplay on most first person shooters is silly, if your gameplay is silly and over the top, don't try to make the player to care about serious stories, the FPS genre was better when they all had that 80's style dumb action movie. Trying to make you care about the horrors of war after you killing a fucking huge enemy army alone doesn't work.
Rule number one: Don't make a game for the consoles, gamepads weren't made for FPS, people still insist using them for this function for some reason, maybe collective retardism, no, making your game slow as shit so gamepad fags can play them is dumbdown, doesn't matter how you try to spin it.
 

DosBuster

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"Don't make a game for the consoles"

Oh, ok, well that solves it! Problem solved, guys! Gee, don't know why we didn't think of that before...
 

octavius

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"Don't make a game for the consoles"

Oh, ok, well that solves it! Problem solved, guys! Gee, don't know why we didn't think of that before...

As I've said before the X-Box heralded the end of the Golden Age of PC gaming in 2002, and its evil is still felt, especially in the FPS genre.
 

Kutulu

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex
I really liked visible Projectiles you can dodge, strafing around dodging a shitton of rockets or fireballs was fun.

Powerful death animations like:
doommancubusdethfatty.gif


Weapons had an "oomph" to it, like boom headshot even without the headshot...
 

IHaveHugeNick

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- modern FPS are designed for realism

As Carrion points out this isn't true but I do agree. Modern FPS try to appear realistic but don't really care about realism.

Well yes, that's definitely better way to put it.

And Halo is a great example because of not just shooters, but the entirety of AAA gaming in general. Halo is the blueprint for modern AAA blockbuster, not just in low level game mechanics but the entire appproach. It's a business of it's own, book tie-ins, comic book tie-ins, fucking Master Chief action figures, prime time TV ads, high production values all focusing on the whole 'cinematic' storytelling. Modern AAA gaming started with Halo when Microsoft had to put it's unlimited war chest in the door to get original Xbox going.

The first two Halos were a lot of fun, mind, and the soundtracks are one of the best ever made. But that's beside the point.
 
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I have only played a handful of older FPS games (Half Life, Unreal and Return to Castle Wolfenstien). Just to name a few.

Other than LARGE and complex area design, no health regeneration, and encounter design, what exactly *IS* missing from modern day FPS's? Weapon sounds? There are a number of things people have mentioned but I was just curious on your thoughts on this topic.
Picking up weapons / no classes, no double jump, respawning without any prior long term reward and without any kind of character progression.
I and III of these points aren't objectively cool, but somehow I really really liked what I saw when watching let's plays of the new Doom and UT. These kinda games just are fun.
 
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Rocket Launcher is the litmus paper now.

Fast, high ammo cap - old skool.
Slow, low ammo cap, destined to fight only gimmicky QTE bosses - popamole.

Most of nu-shooters hate anything that isn't a hitscan weapon so proper RL is now so scarce in these gaemz.
 

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