Decline What the fucking hell is wrong with indie devs?

[Damned Registrations]

I was just trying out Our Darker Purpose (Binding of Isaac clone) and had to stop because the fucking thing was eating up over 3 gigs of memory. Apparently it requires directx10. The entire installation is 300MB.

Can someone explain to me how the fuck you need 10 times your installation footprint in fucking memory? For a top down 2D twinstick shooter? This game would have looked dated 20 years ago on a fucking console, but apparently has system requirements that put Dark Souls, Saints Row 3, and fucking Europa Universalis 3 to shame.

I can understand being a little sloppy because who the fuck doesn't have an extra gig of RAM floating around anyways, but jesus christ, how do you fail at programming this badly? This is like building a one seater car with no trunkspace that gets the fuel efficiency of a fucking tank.

And this isn't the only game I've tried out that has been like this. I've literally given up on buying games before testing them first because of this shit.

 

[Jasede]

A few more years and you too will be an avid icycalm follower!

 

[pakoito]

I'm betting on Unity Engine. Gamemaking is not an art anymore, anyone can pop it and not care about memory or optimizations because computers hugely overperform for those kind of games. Even me.

EDIT: apparently not, just poor coding

http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?p=5519450#5519450

That's because it runs sql server to store data, hashes stats/credits/lessons/periods independently each and stores them as sql database thus posing problem to use cheat engine.

 

[Gerrard]

You should check how much memory ADOM uses and then compare it to JADE.

And people will still try to tell you Java isn't a bloated piece of shit.

 

[No Great Name]

I'm betting on Unity Engine. Gamemaking is not an art anymore, anyone can pop it and not care about memory or optimizations because computers hugely overperform for those kind of games. Even me.

If Unity was that bad at memory management, then nobody would use it until it got fixed. Also...

I've literally given up on buying games before testing them first because of this shit.

Shame you haven't figured this out sooner.

 

[SCO]

Itz a memory leak or terrible caches which don't release timely.

More specifically, if a dev is not forced to test with a bounded memory limit (no virtual memory tricks) they will not give a shit. Which is why java 512mb default limit was useful to flush out idiocy. Although it really should be 128 mb or something.

Caching is one of the 'hard' problems in computer engineering by the way.

 

[pakoito]

I'm betting on Unity Engine. Gamemaking is not an art anymore, anyone can pop it and not care about memory or optimizations because computers hugely overperform for those kind of games. Even me.

If Unity was that bad at memory management, then nobody would use it until it got fixed. Also...

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

 

[aleph]

That's because it runs sql server to store data, hashes stats/credits/lessons/periods independently each and stores them as sql database thus posing problem to use cheat engine.

 

[dnf]

I was just trying out Our Darker Purpose (Binding of Isaac clone) and had to stop because the fucking thing was eating up over 3 gigs of memory. Apparently it requires directx10. The entire installation is 300MB.

Can someone explain to me how the fuck you need 10 times your installation footprint in fucking memory? For a top down 2D twinstick shooter? This game would have looked dated 20 years ago on a fucking console, but apparently has system requirements that put Dark Souls, Saints Row 3, and fucking Europa Universalis 3 to shame.

I can understand being a little sloppy because who the fuck doesn't have an extra gig of RAM floating around anyways, but jesus christ, how do you fail at programming this badly? This is like building a one seater car with no trunkspace that gets the fuel efficiency of a fucking tank.

And this isn't the only game I've tried out that has been like this. I've literally given up on buying games before testing them first because of this shit.

One would think that indie games would fare well with low end computers but unfortunately hipster devs are too fucking stoopid to achieve that. You know this when ugly as fuck 2d games such as Hotline miami or La mulana refuses to run on integrated video cards. Sure, the card is shitty, but it still plays a fuckload of more complex 3d games with PS2 level graphics. Optimization is a lost art.

 

[pakoito]

I was just trying out Our Darker Purpose (Binding of Isaac clone) and had to stop because the fucking thing was eating up over 3 gigs of memory. Apparently it requires directx10. The entire installation is 300MB.

Can someone explain to me how the fuck you need 10 times your installation footprint in fucking memory? For a top down 2D twinstick shooter? This game would have looked dated 20 years ago on a fucking console, but apparently has system requirements that put Dark Souls, Saints Row 3, and fucking Europa Universalis 3 to shame.

I can understand being a little sloppy because who the fuck doesn't have an extra gig of RAM floating around anyways, but jesus christ, how do you fail at programming this badly? This is like building a one seater car with no trunkspace that gets the fuel efficiency of a fucking tank.

And this isn't the only game I've tried out that has been like this. I've literally given up on buying games before testing them first because of this shit.

One would think that indie games would fare well with low end computers but unfortunately hipster devs are too fucking stoopid to achieve that. You know this when ugly as fuck 2d games such as Hotline miami or La mulana refuses to run on integrated video cards. Sure, the card is shitty, but it still plays a fuckload of more complex 3d games with PS2 level graphics. Optimization is a lost art.

Hotline Miami doesn't work on integrated video cards because GameMaker doesn't work on integrated video cards. This is no case of developer optimization, but engine choice.

About engines and cards, the problem boils to standards support. If your Intel card doesn't have the appropriate DX/OGL extensions it just won't play the game or it'll be too slow. Can't optimize what's not there. Reengineering is a solution in any case, make a smaller version of the engine, but it usually never pays off moneywise.

No Great Name was making a case for Unity before, but if people went with closer to the metal engines like SDL this wouldn't be a problem. The problem would be having to reinvent the wheel for every prototype and pair of starving devs out there. The current compromise between easiness and performance isn't bad at all. Could be better, of course, but everything can.

 

[Destroid]

I'm betting on Unity Engine. Gamemaking is not an art anymore, anyone can pop it and not care about memory or optimizations because computers hugely overperform for those kind of games. Even me.

If Unity was that bad at memory management, then nobody would use it until it got fixed. Also...

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

It's more difficult because you are working in a memory managed environment (mono), but there are plenty of other things you can do to chew up all the memory besides leaking.

 

[J1M]

If Unity was leaking memory that badly it wouldn't run on phones and tablets and those are its target platforms.

 

[tuluse]

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

You can always leak memory, but that isn't the fault of the engine.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

This thread is about Might & Magic X.

 

[pakoito]

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

You can always leak memory, but that isn't the fault of the engine.

If Unity was leaking memory that badly it wouldn't run on phones and tablets and those are its target platforms.

Let me rephrase again then for the twerks here: development in Unity gives the inexpert programmer more possibilities of BLOATING memory and not worrying/noticing than in other engines/frameworks. Is that accurate enough or do I need to explain it again?

 

[Spectacle]

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

You can always leak memory, but that isn't the fault of the engine.

If Unity was leaking memory that badly it wouldn't run on phones and tablets and those are its target platforms.

Let me rephrase again then for the twerks here: development in Unity gives the inexpert programmer more possibilities of leaking memory and not worrying/noticing than in other engines/frameworks. Is that accurate enough or do I need to explain it again?

It's a precise, but unproven and most likely false statement. Let's see some documentation.

 

[pakoito]

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

You can always leak memory, but that isn't the fault of the engine.

If Unity was leaking memory that badly it wouldn't run on phones and tablets and those are its target platforms.

Let me rephrase again then for the twerks here: development in Unity gives the inexpert programmer more possibilities of leaking memory and not worrying/noticing than in other engines/frameworks. Is that accurate enough or do I need to explain it again?

It's a precise, but unproven and most likely false statement. Let's see some documentation.

TIL the codex thinks managed memory is the way to go for serious game development.

EDIT: I made an edit to my previous post. I didn't mean leaking memory as in "oops forgot to deallocate a pointer", but bloating it. It's pre-coffee time.

 

[SCO]

It's dumbass C++ 'expert' time apparently.

 

[Konjad]

Games are for morons.

 

[Spectacle]

Unity is less efficient at memory management than any inhouse C++ engine, which is the industry's gold standard. It was meant as a broad stroke.

Also, why can't you cause a memory leak in Unity?

You can always leak memory, but that isn't the fault of the engine.

If Unity was leaking memory that badly it wouldn't run on phones and tablets and those are its target platforms.

Let me rephrase again then for the twerks here: development in Unity gives the inexpert programmer more possibilities of leaking memory and not worrying/noticing than in other engines/frameworks. Is that accurate enough or do I need to explain it again?

It's a precise, but unproven and most likely false statement. Let's see some documentation.

TIL the codex thinks managed memory is the way to go for serious game development.

EDIT: I made an edit to my previous post. I didn't mean leaking memory as in "oops forgot to deallocate a pointer", but bloating it. It's pre-coffee time.

Meh, a bad programmer can waste memory with any language. Unity however makes it a lot easier for bad programmers to actually finish games, so they're more likely to actually release their mess than if they were programming closer to the metal.

 

[Eyeball]

You need a Whole lot of processing power to run the amount of pretentiousness present in most 8-bit graphic indie games.

 

[No Great Name]

No Great Name was making a case for Unity before, but if people went with closer to the metal engines like SDL this wouldn't be a problem.

I am pointing out a faulty statement regardless of what I think about Unity especially because you are the one who first brought it up, guessing that Unity was the cause and jumping to conclusions.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I sorta feel like this thread is discussing how artist are trying and failing horribly at being engineers.

 

[IDtenT]

Unity is a shit engine. We knew this years ago.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Unity is a shit engine. We knew this years ago.

It's only useful purpose is to be a teaching tool in college or whatever.

 

[Xor]

The fuck does this have to do with unity? The game in question is a bloated piece of shit because for some insane reason the stats are stored in an SQL server that runs concurrently with the game itself. I don't think I've ever played a unity game but developers seem to like it well enough.