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What's a good baby's first blobber?

Newfag-er

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 15, 2013
Messages
127
Gonna go off in a tangent

I have heard story regarding the first and second wizardy.

Something something about it begin way too diffcult due to it's puzzles? and exploration?

Could some codexian care enough to explain in detail of it's deal? and why it is widely ignored in the codex? (cause I would belive older == better?)
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
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If you can get into no graphics and usually just one super-hard dungeon - then Wizardry 1-5 is for you. Though there are remakes for consoles that have good graphics, but still limited only to the one dungeon. Pretty much turn-based Grimrock, if you will. ;)
 

Newfag-er

Liturgist
Joined
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Messages
127
If you can get into no graphics and usually just one super-hard dungeon - then Wizardry 1-5 is for you. Though there are remakes for consoles that have good graphics, but still limited only to the one dungeon. Pretty much turn-based Grimrock, if you will. ;)
Thank you for your honest reply, I will put it into my "list" to check out

The first you find.
:hmmm:
 

Daemongar

Arcane
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Codex Year of the Donut
I'll second Lands of Lore 1. Really approachable, nice graphics, feels casual but has some difficulty. I think Might and Magic: World of Xeen is the most approachable M&M game, morso than MM3.

You could also be a real man and play The Bard's Tale 1-3.
 

DraQ

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I'll second Lands of Lore 1. Really approachable, nice graphics, feels casual but has some difficulty.
I strongly disagree.

If my first blobber had me wrestle with atrocious RT control scheme where you need to hunt and click relatively small icons on your interface bar with your mouse AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, I'd probably have jaywilson'd the entire genre.
Additionally LoL1 is infuriating in its simplification and lack of transparency - you have three use based stats total (like in those post oblivion jokes about Bethesda and evolution of their games), up to three characters in your party and are generally unable to milk any sort of quantitative or qualitative information about stuff in game - the only way to see weapon and armor stats is equipping them and calculating them from the difference and any special properties can only be discovered via in-game experimentation, if at all.
You only can choose one of four predefined characters, that are mostly distinguished by hidden variables, which, accompanied by faulty mechanics results in baffling shit like the dumb oaf archetype character being able to inflict most damage with offensive spells.
Level design also isn't anything to write home about though some locations are better than others.

It would be a good game to recommend to a complete casualfag who :what:'s at TB, stats or numbers in general, but it has a good chance to just throw off a seasoned cRPG veteran.

Sure, it does have upsides - some spells can be used creatively to interact with environment, it has genre's trademark pressure plate puzzles and makes extremely good use of physics for a game that doesn't even have proper 3D environment, but it's main attractions - aside form graphics and music - is rather intangible kind of charm, which makes it a hit or miss.

No, for one's first blobber I'd definitely recommend Wizardry 8:

  1. It's TB, meaning you can focus on tactics rather than fumbling hectically around the interface when commanding your party in combat.
  2. It's true 3D, meaning you don't have to put in additional effort to master the abstraction of tiles. Yes, it's an obvious abstraction and doesn't require much effort to getused to, but it's still somewhat disorienting and jarring at first to hop around in one tile increments and only turn in increments of 90 degrees.
  3. It has interesting enough environments, while tile based crawlers ofter suffer from monotony of their environments, due to limited amount of tiles and the way image is rendered.
  4. It's complex enough to be interesting mechanically, with nice stat system, good combat mechanics, formation management, variable power/variable risk spellcasting and so on.
  5. Being 3D it allows for more positioning and meaningful movement (other than exploitish dancing from RT crawlies) in combat.
  6. It's adaptable, each party build provides different challenges, but it's extremely hard to fuck up your party due to lack of metagame knowledge in Wizardry 8, even very non-obvious parties and characters can be viable and fun to play in their own way.
  7. Ability to customize your party member's voices and personalities in addition to portraits allows for varied and fun party banter which prevents the game from feeling dry and mechanical - characters comment on pretty much everything, including other character's comments.
  8. It features modern and user friendly interface with generous tooltips and transparent functionality as opposed to monstrosities found in some older games.
  9. It's pretty easy if one doesn't play it in ironman mode, while playing it in ironman mode unearth whole new layers of challenge and fun.
  10. It was my first blobber and it was love from the first sight.
 
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Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
I don't think Xeen is that approachable as a first blobber. I found it hard to adjust to recently and I grew up playing Bards Tale, Wizardry, EOTB and the like.

I'd probably go with Wizardry 6 if you can overlook the bland graphics. Pretty straightforward interface, nice linear structure to introduce the genre, great class system (deep, but despite what people say - you can play it however you want and still win) etc etc. Play it either with a walkthrough and maps from the interweb for easy mode, or grab your graph-paper for an authentic old school blobber experience.

Wiz 7 is better in many ways but it's more 'open' design and frankly EVIL difficulty spikes can be offputting. I totally understand why people would recommend Wiz 8 but I still think Wiz 6 is the best introductory PC blobber.

As far as console blobbers go I'd highly recommend SMT:Strange Journey over Etrian Odyssey as it has a more engaging story line, more choice and consequence and (I think) far more interesting combat, even if you pretty much have to choose certain fusion combinations to beat the tougher encounters. EO4 is good, but SMT:SJ is better (and a better fit for a CRPGer).

Stuff like EOTB and the very enjoyable Grimrock are a completely different genre as far as I'm concerned. Grimrock in particular is a puzzle game with real time (but tile based) combat, which is an utterly different beast to turn based blobbers.
 
Joined
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Messages
230
Location
Calgary
I would not recommend lands of lore 1, either. The interface, the complex puzzles later on, just so many things to deal with.

And the mines "screams in terror" trying to figure out that pump puzzle...


Ultima Dragon since 1997
 
Joined
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Wizardry 7 and 8 are phase based. not TB. :M
Technically yes, but does it matter?

In terms of compatibility with beer-in-hand gameplay both work well and don't force you to hurry with interface actions, which isn't true for RT.
:bro:
Yeah having fun with wiz 8 and just started 7. Holy fuck wiz8 is long :lol:

EDIT:
tuluse
you might want to try paper Sorcerer, if ti hasn't been mentioned here already. New blobber inspired by wiz4.
you start with one PC, and recruit Monsters as party members. beige/Black color palette. And short (took me 18 hr on hard) and simple. 1980s difficulty is brutal though.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,541
Most of the titles mentioned here are good games and simultaneously bad entry points to blobbers, considering that you are probably a gamer young enough to not be around when they ruled the crpg genre and as such will be prone to ragequitting due to stuff like UI, presentation, difficulty etc.

My advice:

Wizardry 8 - basically a modern take on a tb blobber and probably a direction in which they'd evolve if gaming didn't go full retard after 2001.
Etrian Odyssey IV (optimal, but requires 3ds) or III (can be easily emulated) - it's a mix of classic tb blobber like pre-8 Wizardries with a pretty modern approach to character skills and bad animu art. Don't play I or II because you will ragequit after getting repeatedly TPKed on first few floors.
Grimrock - the only "classic crpg Kickstarter" game that actually delivered and gives a good picture of what RT blobbers taste like.
 

V_K

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Holy fuck wiz8 is long :lol:
Not as long as it's slow. If it had some kind of fast travel in place, that'd cut the game length by half if not more.

...and that's why I wouldn't recommend it as the introduction to the genre. If we're talking about Wizardries, I'd say the series' bastard child Wizards&Warriors is a better option - it's quite accessible but not simplistic, and the level design is brilliant. Unfortunately, due to it being a buggy mess that won't run properly on modern machine, it's out of the question.
 

Daemongar

Arcane
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Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
I would not recommend lands of lore 1, either. The interface, the complex puzzles later on, just so many things to deal with.
And the mines "screams in terror" trying to figure out that pump puzzle...
Oddly, I only had problems with the Ghosts in and using the cubes... more than anything else in that game. Overall, I thought it was a good introduction: not very high complexity, but a taste. Think a lot of the early blobbers assume a level of knowledge that people just getting into this do not possess. I'd probably go:
1. LoL1
2. EotB 1 & 2
3. LoG
There are superior examples, but as far as ease of approach, these might be the best. I don't know, there may be better examples.
 

Kem0sabe

Arcane
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Location
Azores Islands
Wizardry 8 by far the best choice to start out, easy enough to get into, complex enough to feel like your playing an rpg instead of a combat simulator.
 

Daemongar

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
4,715
Location
Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
I'll second Lands of Lore 1. Really approachable, nice graphics, feels casual but has some difficulty.
I strongly disagree.

If my first blobber had me wrestle with atrocious RT control scheme where you need to hunt and click relatively small icons on your interface bar with your mouse AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, I'd probably have jaywilson'd the entire genre.
Yet Dungeon Master is still held in high regard. Funny.

Additionally LoL1 is infuriating in its simplification and lack of transparency - you have three use based stats total (like in those post oblivion jokes about Bethesda and evolution of their games), up to three characters in your party and are generally unable to milk any sort of quantitative or qualitative information about stuff in game - the only way to see weapon and armor stats is equipping them and calculating them from the difference and any special properties can only be discovered via in-game experimentation, if at all.
A hallmark of the series. Gets more difficult in LoL2 and 3, but not a showstopper in 1.
You only can choose one of four predefined characters, that are mostly distinguished by hidden variables, which, accompanied by faulty mechanics results in baffling shit like the dumb oaf archetype character being able to inflict most damage with offensive spells.
Manual has a little about this, iirc.
Level design also isn't anything to write home about though some locations are better than others.
That's every game. You can do better.

It would be a good game to recommend to a complete casualfag who :what:'s at TB, stats or numbers in general, but it has a good chance to just throw off a seasoned cRPG veteran.
I'll just say that LoL1 is a pretty good intro to blobbers, while Wiz 8... is not. Also, I would feel guilty asking someone to start with Wiz 8, when they may be gyped out of enjoying Wiz 7 more by starting with Wiz 8.

As you said, Wiz 8 it was your first. My first was BT1, so I hold it in pretty high regard as well, but since not a lot of folks here hold it in high regard, or actually played and finished it, it would be a tough sell.
 

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I love the Wizardry series but no way in hell would I recommended it as first try for its genre; the learning curve of combat, its constant monster spaming and skill development system are not easy to get a grasp on especialy if you have not played the system before. To get a hang you need somenthing that is a good primer with fun combat and graphics like the Might and Magics, or good solid uncomplicated gameplay like Eye of the Beholder (for those coming over the D&D games) or even Grimrock for newer graphics
 

V_K

Arcane
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Holy fuck wiz8 is long :lol:
Not as long as it's slow. If it had some kind of fast travel in place
You mean like set portal and return to portal?
:martini:
I mean if it worked like in Eschalon where each spell level creates a different teleport location, it might be feasible. Or if it was linear like Diablo. One portal per caster in an open-world game however is not a fast travel system but a joke.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,541
There are other fast travel options that can be unlocked even before the portal spells. And people seem to forget that Shift-ing around mob spawns is actually often perfectly viable, especially on more open maps. Now the Rapax areas... That's where you start to rage.

Sent from my RM-821_eu_poland_360 using Tapatalk
 

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