What's more important in a CRPG?

[Excidium]

Well, yeah. But you should have used a more encompassing term. Setting and story cover a variety of things.

It's not meant to be scientifict. I was just wondering about the combatfag to storyfag ratio on the Codex.

Well shit then count me out because because I'm not retarded. The codex "combatfags" think fighting twenty kobolds with streamlined AD&D combat rules is somehow amazing and deeply tactical, and "storyfags" seem to enjoy being railroaded which goes against the whole point of RPGs to me.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I voted "Combat, then story, followed by setting", even though I don't think I really qualify as a tr00 h4rdc0r3 k0mbatf4g...it's just that while I don't really care about retarded stories and settings (lolvideogames), retarded combat annoys me greatly. Also I believe setting comes last because an awesome story in a retarded setting is still cool, but a retarded story in an awesome setting is just a sad waste.

 

[octavius]

Well, yeah. But you should have used a more encompassing term. Setting and story cover a variety of things.

It's not meant to be scientifict. I was just wondering about the combatfag to storyfag ratio on the Codex.

Well shit then count me out because because I'm not retarded. The codex "combatfags" think fighting twenty kobolds with streamlined AD&D combat rules is somehow amazing and deeply tactical, and "storyfags" seem to enjoy being railroaded which goes against the whole point of RPGs to me.

What can I say, except repeat that it's not meant to be scientific. Don't take it so seriously.

 

[Excidium]

Don't take it so seriously.

Did you forget where we are?

 

[sser]

When done well, nothing really trumps the other. I'm indifferent to drawing lines in the sand. Or maybe I'm just a fancy napkin easily folded this way or that.

 

[Excidium]

You have a very strange definition of RPG.

 

[Cabazone]

You're a funny thing codex. By reading at you, combat really seems to be the most important thing, but when looking at the games you actually like, it's story-settingfagness all day.

 

[Lancehead]

Combat, then setting, followed by story

Combat first because it's pretty much the only freeform thing you can do in RPGs (though I wish that is extended to non-combat gameplay). Setting next because a good setting can allow for interesting mechanics and improve said combat. Story, yeah I like a good story, I like it better if it can be influenced through gameplay, but that goes (or should go, in an RPG) without saying.

 

[Rostere]

Setting and story is essentially the same thing in a non-PnP RPG.

 

[hoverdog]

Setting and story is essentially the same thing in a non-PnP RPG.

KOTOR1 and KOTOR2. The very same setting, even a few planets match. Same story?

 

[Crooked Bee]

I used to be a combatfag, but now my list of priorities of what I'm looking for in a CRPG is as follows:

1) Outstanding dungeon and puzzle design (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardries) or, in case of Ultima-likes, outstanding world design/exploration/clue design (ex.: Ultima V, 2400 A.D., Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan)
2) Innovative/unorthodox RPG (combat/exploration/character development/whatever) mechanics (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardry 4, Labyrinth of Touhou, Shin Megami Tensei)
3) Resource management (ex.: The Legacy)
4) Atmosphere (ex.: ShadoWorlds)

I realize this list may be an unorthodox one, but then again I do no longer care about the "what is the true CRPG?!" question, thankfully. So that's just what I'm looking for the most in CRPGs as of now. The rest (story, C&C, multiple ways to solve quests, etc.) is fluff to me, although I do enjoy story- or purely tactical combat-focused RPGs occasionally, too.

 

[CappenVarra]

Well, if you're going to strawman the issues, you might as well label them as a choice between "skirmish simulation" vs. "book simulation" vs. "adventuring simulation". The order of importance is quite obvious then

 

[likaq]

This poll is worth bumping.

 

[Xenich]

Hmm...

Where is character development? It seems to me that combat doesn't define specifically anything (action and strategy games have combat). Story and setting can be an adventure game.

So...

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development. Without character development, you aren't an RPG. /shrug

 

[Excidium]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

 

[nordbird]

For me the most important parts of RPGs are neither of those, but character development, choices-consequences and player-world interaction. You can have a bad setting, bad combat and bad story but if it has amazing character development, meaningful choices with visible consequences, multiple ways to do quests and complete each playthrough, then I'd consider it a good game.

If I wanted a game for it's combat, I'd play an action game while if I wanted a good setting-story I'd watch a movie or read a book. For me the defining part of games is interaction, if I feel like I'm following a linear path (kill monsters to get to X) I feel like there is poor interaction.

 

[Xenich]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

Without character development it isn't an RPG. It is an adventure or action game, etc... Character development is the defining element of an RPG. From the days of its RPG games inception, character development was the key (ie Chainmail was a board game, to which they applied character development within a story to facilitate strategic encounters which resulted in D&D). Story focused RPG's were a later adaptation, though even so they function on a certain level of character development. With cGames, the genres were defined in the realms of action, adventure, strategy, and RPG. Hybrids obvisly existed, but a game without character development is one of the other categories.

I hope you are not one of those who subjectively and irrationally terms an RPG as "I play a role, its a game... so its a role playing game". If that is the case, well... all games are RPGs. /boggle

 

[VioletShadow]

In general, all of those elements need to work in a cohesive manner. I'd say gameplay is the most important aspect, but I really enjoy the storytelling value so the story is most important to me personally. I'm much more likely to play/enjoy/finish an RPG with great writing and poor combat (Planescape Torment) than the opposite.

 

[undecaf]

I'd like to think that combat is not the only form of gameplay nor the storyline and world setup the only form of writing, but are all parts of the respective larger ideals; and as such, gameplay comes first (it is a game afterall) and writing comes second, but they really should strive to supplement each other rather than compete over the focus. That's how I view an optimal case RPG, not unambiguously storyfaggotry nor combatfaggotry.

 

[Excidium]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

Without character development it isn't an RPG. It is an adventure or action game, etc... Character development is the defining element of an RPG. From the days of its RPG games inception, character development was the key (ie Chainmail was a board game, to which they applied character development within a story to facilitate strategic encounters which resulted in D&D). Story focused RPG's were a later adaptation, though even so they function on a certain level of character development. With cGames, the genres were defined in the realms of action, adventure, strategy, and RPG. Hybrids obvisly existed, but a game without character development is one of the other categories.

I hope you are not one of those who subjectively and irrationally terms an RPG as "I play a role, its a game... so its a role playing game". If that is the case, well... all games are RPGs. /boggle

Bullshit. Educate yourself.

 

[nordbird]

Excidium what game is your avatar from? I like the art style :D

 

[Excidium]

Ultima Underworld 2

 

[Xenich]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

Without character development it isn't an RPG. It is an adventure or action game, etc... Character development is the defining element of an RPG. From the days of its RPG games inception, character development was the key (ie Chainmail was a board game, to which they applied character development within a story to facilitate strategic encounters which resulted in D&D). Story focused RPG's were a later adaptation, though even so they function on a certain level of character development. With cGames, the genres were defined in the realms of action, adventure, strategy, and RPG. Hybrids obvisly existed, but a game without character development is one of the other categories.

I hope you are not one of those who subjectively and irrationally terms an RPG as "I play a role, its a game... so its a role playing game". If that is the case, well... all games are RPGs. /boggle

Bullshit. Educate yourself.

Failure to state. Enter the discussion or go fuck yourself.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Maybe two-option a poll with combatfag, storyfag would have done the trick.

Ultimately I am a combatfag, but if a game nails combat and one of setting or story, chances are I will thoroughly enjoy it. I think very few games successfully execute all three. If a game has solid combat, I can ignore the rest and enjoy it, but I can't say the same for setting or story. Story and setting together are enough to create a special game (PS:T).

 

[Minttunator]

Interesting question! I can't recall many games that have done all 3 well, though - i.e. RPGs with a great story usually have boring combat, combat-focused RPGs usually don't have much in the way of story and so on. I guess I just focus on what's good in the particular game that I'm playing - if it's got an interesting setting (like Arcanum or Morrowind) then I focus on that, if it's got a great story but shitty combat (like Torment) then I try to enjoy the story and get past the combat as quickly as possible. I'm currently playing ToEE and really having fun with the combat, regardless of the silly-as-fuck story.

Character development is another really crucial element, as has been pointed out. If I were to choose one thing that appeals to me most about RPGs, it's that - planning optimal character builds and such is a part of this, but this also includes choices and consequences and how the world reacts to the character based on those choices. The latter is sadly something that most RPGs have horribly failed at.