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Incline When I was 9.... DISCUSS!!!11

Reapa

Doom Preacher
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IIRC people are confusing random loot with scaling.
There is no scaling to loot or enemies in game.

What is scaling is crafting stuff (logical), skills.

You may test it. New game go to cysael go to near legionare barracks gate, go to mill outside. There is a chest and in this chest there will be lvl 5-7 loot.
I also recently gone back to West of cysael and opened up chest and voila lvl 4 gear where i am lvl 11
it scales with level zone, like wow
and it's use scales to player level up to the gear level, meaning it get's better or usable at a certain level or at certain stats
First of all, the loot is fucking level scaled. Even if you somehow get higher level loot than you would expect from the region you are currently in, armor has stat requirements which are unachievable until you have enough levels behind you and weapons' use is even directly connected to character level, since you need more action points per hit per level difference between character level and item level.

sometimes i get the feeling people don't read first post...
 
Last edited:

Perkel

Arcane
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yes which is how all RPGs that do not have flat equipment progression works.
You can go to Silverglean and get better weapon if you want (and if you have stats) even if weapon will be few levels above it will be usable.
 

Reapa

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yes which is how all RPGs that do not have flat equipment progression works.
You can go to Silverglean and get better weapon if you want (and if you have stats) even if weapon will be few levels above it will be usable.
it scales with level zone, like wow
and it's use scales to player level up to the gear level, meaning it get's better or usable at a certain level or at certain stats


sometimes i get the feeling people don't read first post...
if you don't have the right level or above weapon is not as good since it takes more ap to use
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Sure but you can use it.

Yeah as you i think this is a bit weird since you have lvl and stat req and both are equally important to use of weapon.

Imo i think it should be completely stat dependant. Meaning if you don't have half or 3/4 of strength needed to use it you can't swing it. If you have depending on amount of your stat you get negative bonuses to AP. This way it will "look" better and if player want to dump everything into strength making himself slow as fuck then he would be able to use better weapons for his level at cost of for example speed or health.

Also armor doesn't have lvl negative bonuses. So they did it halfway.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
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I agree with the level requirements on gear -- that's just stupid.

But the stat requirements are fair. If melee weapons didn't require dex or str to use them, nobody would ever pump str, dex (or int for spells) -- because these stats only provide +hit or +dmg with weapons/spells -- and you can acquire a sufficient amount of both with a "bare minimum" threshold, certain passive skills, and certain skill combos (frozen enemies seem to have 0% avoid no matter what). If they'd made these stats suck less, they could probably restructure things.

Is there anyone who took any of the weapon skill passives past rank 1? I hope no one did. Why do you need two handed weapons II? It only adds another 10% damage (but costs twice as many points to acquire). 10% more damage for an attack that will do as little as 10 damage in the early game and only as much as a couple hundred in the late game -- it's pretty paltry.

DivinityOS is about spamming stats which give HP, AP, crit, or movement speed. These stats, particuarly AP, are SUPER important because with enough AP you get 100% or 200% increased damage (every AP you acquire lets you use more attacks and skills per turn).

I generally agree the loot in DOS is pretty boring/tame, they could have added more interesting mods. Also, magic/weapon hybrid builds are pretty fucked over, no skills to make them viable and no pure elemental damage weapons (that I could find for most of the game) to make int useful for a melee fighter who isn't using spells...

DOS is in everyway way more interesting than Skyrim though. You can actually specialize in DOS and I'm thoroughly enjoying the game, almost 100 hours in. I didn't have faith Larian could make a game this good.

Mods will fix this game much easier than Skyrim. I'm already working on my enahnced/improved weapon mod mod:

CHANGELOG
Loremaster mods always accompany an additional stat (such as elemental resistance)
Luck mods always accompany an addional stat (such as elemental resistance)
Sneaking mods always accompany an additional stat (such as elemental resistance)
Hearing/sight mods always accompany an addtional stat (such as elemental resistance)
Telekinesis mods always accompany an additional stat (such as elemental resistance)
Weapons that only deal elemental damage can now randomly roll
There is some mod bias now between Crossbows and Bows.
Crushing weapons are now more common.
Added "double edged" or "cursed" stats, some examples follow:
+Armor, -Elemental Resistance
+Skill availability, -Attributes
+Notable stat gain, -Cannot be healed
+Notable weapon stat gain, notable movement penalty
+Notable spell stat gain, notable sight penalty
More hybrid armors are available, for encouraging cross-class builds.
One handed weapons that cannot backstab suck less now.

If they'd included items like these in the base game, I'd say they'd have done everything perfectly. And a few more 'unique' items would have helped a lot.

Skyrim's itemization blows by the way. Not even close.
 

Perkel

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Skyrim itemization though is oposite of "best of both"

It has more or less flat progression system with weapon baing main source of damage and they are used as weapon not as a tool. But we shouldn't talk about Skyrim here as it no place for it (beside pun)


bTW:

what is that changelog ? new patch ?
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
Also, there definitely is no loot scaling. Loot drops in the "level" of the area you're in, this includes chests and monsters. If you go adventuring in a level +2 or +3 levels than you (and you somehow manage to win), you will find loot you basically cannot use because of the level restrictions. There is no monster scaling.

The game is tightly paced which may make it feel like there is level scaling. Fighting enemies +1 level than you is much more difficult and fighting enemies -1 level than you makes the fight a rollover. Level progression is also rather slow. This is the complete opposite of Skyrim, where bears and bandits become harder and harder as you kill them, no matter where you go. In DOS it's quite possible to wander in the wrong direction and get your shit wrecked.

The game would benefit from losing its level requirement restriction and having its stat requirements for gear slightly stricter (while making hybrid gear more accessible to hybrids).
 

Arkeus

Arcane
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Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,406
Also, there definitely is no loot scaling. Loot drops in the "level" of the area you're in, this includes chests and monsters. If you go adventuring in a level +2 or +3 levels than you (and you somehow manage to win), you will find loot you basically cannot use because of the level restrictions. There is no monster scaling.
That's not really true- only weapons get malus for high-level. Going into high-level areas and finding some good unique amulets/rings/armors are a game-changer.

Likewise, for mages a good staff that gets +2int or +1Int+1speed is really nice.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
Since accessories have no requirements I guess you're right, I hadn't considered that.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Messages
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Yeah i think they created lvl req for weapons because with twice lvl weapon you could cheese your way in Cyseal, where armor and eq stats doesn't really give you that much boost.

Still it is design problem of creating DPS dependant system instead of utilizing weapons as tools (like in D&D)
Also it is stat design problem as there are dump stats.


I mean for example Perception for malee fighter would need to give really high bonus to crit damage instead of it being like 2%.
 

imweasel

Guest
Also, there definitely is no loot scaling. Loot drops in the "level" of the area you're in, this includes chests and monsters. If you go adventuring in a level +2 or +3 levels than you (and you somehow manage to win), you will find loot you basically cannot use because of the level restrictions. There is no monster scaling.
True.

Loot does seem to scale in shops though.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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set what is with that changelog ? where did you find it ?


btw:

that weapon lvl req probably is the easiest change to make as it should trive on formula that can be found and edited.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
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people, loot scales in different ways. drop depends on zone, like in wow and use of loot depends on stats/char level. it's not that complicated and it's obvious bullshit. not to mention that it's random with very few exceptions.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Messages
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Yeah but it isn't scaling to your character which is the worst shit. As someone mentioned you can go grab better gear like amu from Silvergren and use it. Weapons are only one that are handicaped and you can take on mobs on different level than yours.

It is just standard RPG stuff which is mediacore. Not bad but mediacore. Still combat outshines that point.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
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Yeah but it isn't scaling to your character which is the worst shit. As someone mentioned you can go grab better gear like amu from Silvergren and use it. Weapons are only one that are handicaped and you can take on mobs on different level than yours.

It is just standard RPG stuff which is mediacore. Not bad but mediacore. Still combat outshines that point.
yes, well, it's still a heavy issue
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
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Tell me about level scaling. Specifically, DOS' implementation thereof, how it benefits the game and how it compares to the likes of Wiz8 or Oblivion.
Good question, haven't played long enough to notice it yet so I have no idea
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
set what is with that changelog ? where did you find it ?


btw:

that weapon lvl req probably is the easiest change to make as it should trive on formula that can be found and edited.

That was me sperging on my changelog for the mod I'm working on.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
1,567
But the stat requirements are fair. If melee weapons didn't require dex or str to use them, nobody would ever pump str, dex (or int for spells) -- because these stats only provide +hit or +dmg with weapons/spells -- and you can acquire a sufficient amount of both with a "bare minimum" threshold, certain passive skills, and certain skill combos (frozen enemies seem to have 0% avoid no matter what). If they'd made these stats suck less, they could probably restructure things.
Completely disagree, if anything I think the stat requirements are a lot more limiting and a lot more annoying. Making a battlemage for example, and other classes that you'd think would be supported by the fact that they included them as presets, is extremely difficult because of those requirements. (mostly, you can make them, but they'll be shit.) Those stats increase your effectiveness with the weapons, and buff all of the skills. from what I can tell, having high core stats means not only better CtH, but more range, and higher percentages for status effects both positive and negative on all of your skills, not sure if it affects their damage or AoE though. But it probably should. Those are balanced to me, and I'm sure people would still put points into them, compare that to perception or constitution, you want to argue for those stats?

To add the requirements on top of that is too much, and there are better ways to balance stats then that shit anyway.

Oh well, PoE doesn't have shit like that does it??
 
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I've heard of that, it was next to Torchlight and Diablo when I clicked "more like this" on D:OS. I guess those great features had to have been inspired by something.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
So how is editing going ? IT is only plan or you area actually doing it now ? Hard ? Easy ?

Editing item mods is easy, anyone can do it if they know how to use excel - the game comes with spreadsheets. What's hard is getting mod dependecies to work, so far I can create a custom mod with a custom level, but effecting the main campaign is difficult and inconsistent.

The easiest game editor I've ever used was WC3's. DOS is about a step up in difficulty than that, so I'd say it's really good.

Path of Exile is a completely different game, but the stat requirements there work the same. If you want to use a bow, you need 100 dex, or whatever, even if all you are going to use with that bow is str or int focused skills/stats (there's a passive for "always hit, never crit" which makes dex useless for a bow, but you still need dex to use said bow). Stat requirements there make sense because it's a classless game where you can do whatever the hell you want. If you don't have stat requirements, sure, it increases "build diversity", but it makes creating an optimal build too easy, at least in PoE.

I'm confused on how str/dex/int effect things, as I further go into DOS. For instnace, the weakest heal in the game for the water mage seems to be getting stronger and stronger, but its gains don't make sense when I do intelligence calculations vs the base heal. Hit chance and effect chance and evade chance is too abstracted for me, as well. In PoE the core stats are straight forward and provide linear, weak gains. In DOS, I'm becoming unsure how useless they are.
 

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