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Which, if any, fights are supposed to be unwinnable?

Magnificate

Novice
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
41
So, I've been having problems with combat.

There were numerous encounters that seemed unpassable at first, but proved to be doable with some nets, bombs, positioning or level-ups. BUT, after Maadoran those tricks are no longer enough. I'm unable to beat the raiders outside the bridge, the stone guardian or the arena champion despite going all out and levelling Swords to 8 and Dodge to 10.

Vaqqk6o.png

Are these fights suppossed to be unwinnable?
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
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Location
Russia
I think Block is better when you have to go out against enemy groups with ranged weapons, but neglecting Alchemy in favor of thinly spread social skills can be a real problem here.

You could probably leave Monastery & Arena Champion for late game tho unless you visited Monastery already (not a lot of options in that location for now).
 

Magnificate

Novice
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
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Isn't it already late game? I very nearly maxed out combat skills and it still isn't enough. Worse, until now the combat difficulty was increasing, so I shrudder at the thought of the encounters within the final locations.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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28,024
There are no unwinnable fights.

PS. You're doing pretty damn good with that hybrid character. Let me rephrase, there are no fights that ANY character can beat. Your militant loremaster should not become the champion of the arena, for example. Not sure about the demon. You might have a chance but do you really have to kill him?
 

Mozg

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
Bolas + sharpened 2000 gold gladius from Maadoran should let that guy kill the arena champ.

I think he should be able to do some clever stuff with the demon. I haven't done the monastery because I accidentally never saw the adventure hook for it...

The only fight I've seen that seems designed to be unwinnable is having to fight the entire IG contingent at Harren's Pass as soon as you get there as an Aurelian Praetor. I'm sure it's got scripting and stuff that continues the story afterward, but it's a huge difficulty spike.
 
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Once and Future Wasteland
Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I remember, at least in early access, beating the entire IG contingent at Harran's Pass before talking to the Ordu. I can't think of any fights that would be harder than that.

Though maybe that was made harder since ~2 years ago? Gonna have to try that again now.

And yeah, your build should be able to become arena champion. Bolas and maybe some bombs from the Zeb the Trader and you'll be good to go.
 

Magnificate

Novice
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
41
You might have a chance but do you really have to kill him?
I don't have to kill him, strictly speaking. The game offers me lots of option for non-combat solutions. Say, I could escape the tower via DEX. However, the game pushes me to kill all foes. It offers XP for defeating enemies and some quests are opened via combat.
Bolas + sharpened 2000 gold gladius from Maadoran should let that guy kill the arena champ.
Tried it, didn't work. I'm actually using that blue steel gladius as my weapon of choice.
 

Mozg

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I had a Praetor that was overly offensive at that point (I'd wasted a lot of points trying to make him my first try at a zero-defense build, but having decided it was impossible due to aim:arm I gave up and started giving him more block) but I think having 10 in block or maaaaybe dodge (you have to eat several arrow shots each turn) would be necessary to slow down your HP attrition against those numbers. It was a thing where I didn't even survive to get a turn when I tried it with what I had.
 
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Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Brandon did a video of this 2 years ago.



I'm not sure 10/10/4/6/6/4, 8 sword and 10 dodge would get it done in the release version though. On the other hand you should now be able to get way more skillpoints and be able to invest in crafting, alchemy, or CS, which might make a big difference.
 

Mozg

Arcane
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Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
Tried it, didn't work. I'm actually using that blue steel gladius as my weapon of choice.

I guess I'm underestimating how hard 4 str and 4 con combines to hurt your combat potential.

You could come back later if you get a good amount of alchemy and repeatedly bola him and melt all his armor off with acid.
 

Carrion

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The arena champ should be doable with that build, as attribute-wise it's pretty similar to my Assassin (I had 5 in STR and CON, but also weaker Sword and Dodge skills at that point) that managed to win that fight without losing a single HP. Critical Strike would be useful in that fight, though.

Bolas aimed at the head is the most effective tool in that battle, something that you can use on the very first turn and which will allow you to get a couple of attacks in before he's able to do anything. You can get some extra damage with poison, but he's carrying antidote so it's not all that effective. After temporarily incapacitating him with the bolas I simply used whatever I had to keep him down on the ground, aimed strikes to the head perhaps being potentially the most effective, as it's possible to get a critical that will keep him down for several turns, giving you a chance to unleash your most powerful attacks on him with 100% accuracy. If that's not enough to finish him, you can try to get your hands on a few bombs that will also allow you to knock him down and therefore get a couple of more easy hits, although you'll have to pray that all those points in Dodge pay off.
 

Saark

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
One of the few fights that I feel deserves the title "unwinnable" is refusing to get escorted to Gaelius after talking to Domitius. 5 guys in full armour, one of them a praetor and you have exactly 1 tile left/right/in front of you where you can move since the door closes and locks behind you. I cannot see how one would be able to do this fight since it usually happens early into the game. Tried with fire vials and some other stuff but to no avail. Probably doable with 10 dodge but it would be nigh impossible to get those stats by then unless you skip turning in this quest for this exact reason.
 

Mozg

Arcane
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Oct 20, 2015
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Could try to shield bash one of them back so you could run through them to some 1-tile choke point
 

Mozg

Arcane
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Harran's Pass mega-ambush is doable live. Had a 10/8/6/8/4/4 axe 8/blocker 10 do it. Plotwise it doesn't change anything vs. simply running to the exit (as in, when the Ordu come back to the pass it's not like it's deserted because you already killed everyone or something like that) but you do get 10 combat SP and there's a little bit of unique writing. You unfortunately don't get to buy the Ghost Hand or that guy's two power tubes.
 

Rivmusique

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For arena champ: Get another point in crafting, use the superbomb that you find at hellgate, then shower him with any BP bombs you can find (Zeb the trader sells 3 pretty powerful ones). That's what I did with my 8/4/8/8/8/4 attempt at a hybrid. He had the benefit of fully upgraded power armor, but no way was that fight getting won in slugging match.
 

Magnificate

Novice
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
41
Damn, 4 STR is one thing, but 4 CON? I'd be shitting bricks every combat encounter with only 30 hp.
Yes, one nasty critical can end the fight.

I've just noticed that 4 is the minimal value for stats! All this time I've been thinking that my CON and STR are just below average, but it turns out I actually dumped them. Yeah.

BTW, is there any way to permamently increase stats? I've got the surgical equipment and I've found the healing machine in the sewers, but neither of them does anything as of yet.
 

Saark

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
This is questionable. You can win this fight (I did), but you die anyway and get a game over. So that may well count as unwinnable.

Okay, that sounds kinda fucked up. What did your character look like to win this clusterfuck?
 

Saark

Arcane
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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Good to know, I probably had like 5s or 6s in the respective combat stats (dagger/crit/dodge) so I naturally got my ass handed to me. So once you win the fight, you basically get told "rocks fall, you die" or what happens?
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
Brandon did a video of this 2 years ago.



I'm not sure 10/10/4/6/6/4, 8 sword and 10 dodge would get it done in the release version though. On the other hand you should now be able to get way more skillpoints and be able to invest in crafting, alchemy, or CS, which might make a big difference.


Constitution now affects defense so probably not (before that it was a very nice dump stat for a dodge focused combat build), other things changed from that version as well (more enemies, archers can shoot through walls and houses etc.). It's one place where the blocker shines while dodgers are in for a nerve wrecking experience.

That said, I managed to do it with a 10 10 8 4 4 4 char with 7 in Axe, 9 in Dodge and 8 in crafting (used sharpening and blue steel Shadhavar) but it definitely required some reloads. The key is to kill one archer in the upper right and then let yourself get surrounded, they'll act as nice cover against archers and you'll be able to use whirlwind to great effect.
 

Mozg

Arcane
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Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
With a blocker you definitely don't want to get surrounded because you can get hit with a sword bleed on any non-perfect block, and every enemy but the velites has a sword on that map. Throwing weapons may also get a chance to penetrate a non-perfect block, not sure how that works. I had to cheese it by running to the building in the middle of the map to use the door as a choke point, plus wear a tower shield so the danger of that one archer/thrower finding an angle to hit you could be minimized. Also guzzled neurostim and berserk potion to shorten the fight enough so bleed attrition didn't kill.
 

Xor

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Jan 21, 2008
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9,345
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I beat the game with an assassin with a daggers/dodge build, 5/10/6/8/7/4. The only fights I wasn't able to win no matter how many times I tried were the mercenaries at the monastery and the thugs in the slums who try to charge you 1000 gold to pass. In both cases, they used nets and had plenty of ranged attackers and you start practically surrounded. I also had a lot of trouble with the power armor fight, but I did manage to beat that one after several attempts.

The arena champion fight forced me to experiment with several different things before I finally tried using bolas, which is what I ultimately used to win the fight. If you're lucky they'll disable him for a few rounds (I think it lasted 3 when I finally killed him) and you'll have enough time to burst him down. And I beat the stone guardian by just repeatedly making aimed: torso attacks. Every crit reduces his con by 1 and lowers his armor. At that point I had 10 points in dodge so he wasn't hitting me very often and occasionally I'd crit on a counter attack and do 7-10 damage. It still took several attempts, though.

Edit: I hadn't tried fighting Agathoth so I decided to take a crack at that, and while I didn't try for very long I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to beat that fight either.
 
Last edited:

saintstc

Novice
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
2
Has anyone managed to kill all the raiders in Aemolas village whilst still in the early game? I was only able to do it after going to Maadoran to improve my skills and equipment then going back to complete the quest.
 

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