Which RPG has the worst combat?

[Agesilaus]

Ultima 7 is actually one of the best combat engines. It's extremely exciting, the colourful graphics add to the sense of chaos and danger, and the whole thing becomes a desperate experience with a real sense of pending doom. It probably captures the terror of engaging in mortal combat better than any other game out there.

 

[Darkion]

You went too full retard in your act. It was a good troll but not a good intentional satire.

Too true. I'll try to do better (or just not post when I'm half asleep). As penance I will go read all of mondblut's anti Planescape:Torment posts.

 

[Night Goat]

So few nominations for Bethesda and Obsidian games? NWN or Arcanum have horrible combat, but both seem pretty nice compared to the crap from these two devs.

At least in Bethesda games, it's over quickly.

 

[Tigranes]

Ultima 7 without question. Simply on a different level to other 'bad combat' such as KOTOR1/2.

Ultima 7 is actually one of the best combat engines. It's extremely exciting, the colourful graphics add to the sense of chaos and danger, and the whole thing becomes a desperate experience with a real sense of pending doom. It probably captures the terror of engaging in mortal combat better than any other game out there.

You mean click vaguely in the direction of the enemy then wait?

 

[undecaf]

At least in Bethesda games, it's over quickly.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Space 1889
Whale's Voyage
Ultima VII
Witcher 2

 

[StaticSpine]

I dislike any party rtwp combat, especially in PS:T, because it's one of my few all time favorites. BUT I hope I can get into rtwp with PoE!

About Arcanum's combat - I always turn it to turn based and don't give a shit

 

[JarlFrank]

So few nominations for Bethesda and Obsidian games? NWN or Arcanum have horrible combat, but both seem pretty nice compared to the crap from these two devs.

At least in Bethesda games, it's over quickly.

Yes. Crap combat that is over quickly is better than crap combat which takes a long time. This is why Arcanum's combat is miles better than NWN's.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Threads like this are dumb.
I couldn't care less what mondblut thinks about rt combat, and I couldn't care less how some here define rpgs.
And I really hope most sane people who are able to think on their own feel that way.

Anyway...
Ultima VII without a doubt. Often you couldn't even tell if a fight was over or not or where the enemy is. What a clusterfuck.
Arcanum was very bad too, in fact it made me quit the game about 2 hours in. Never went back, am too much of a combatfag and not storyfag enough to really care if there are C&C. C&C without fun are pointless.
Other than that ... Fallout 3 and New Vegas combat was bad. Witcher 1 combat became boring as hell very fast, TES games are too easy, most of today's games are too easy.
Still, most RPGs are at least somewhat entertaining for a while. The RPG formula makes it so since you want to try out your newly unlocked skills at the next bunch of trash mobs. There are other things they do wrong.

F1 had good combat overall

Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes!

Indeed. But it's still somewhat fun and fights are over fast enough so you won't hate it.
Fallout for me is an example of a game with horribly broken combat mechanics, saved by how fast it's over and by the very cool gory death animations. Fallout just oozes style. So basically it's an artsy fartsy hipster game.

Mangoose:
There are lots of other builds in BG2 that are interesting to play, not just mages.
Did you even play the game?

 

[AW8]

I haven't really played that many RPG's, but I'm currently playing The Witcher and it deserves another mention.

Not long into the game, I was already thinking: Why is this game played like an action game where you have to click for every attack? Why not have it like KotOR/Dragon Age where you click on the enemy and your character keeps attacking by himself?

The Witcher combat has the worst of both worlds - the slow and boring speed of a tactical game and the annoying requirement of having to mash the attack button of an action game.

I'm at the end of the game now and it's not so horrible anymore since I've become an unstoppable tornado of death and combat is over in an instant, but it's still a terrible system.

 

[Jaesun]

I haven't really played that many RPG's, but I'm currently playing The Witcher.

You should try playing some cRPG's instead of action games labeled as a RPG.....

 

[ikarinokami]

I remember Arcanum being tolerable on turn based mode.

the worst combet I have ever seen in a good rpg game was torment, the combat was horrendous. Neverwinter nights was pretty terrible also, but Torment was just a whole other level of awfulness.

 

[CyberP]

In the words of Excidium: Crock shit.
Dark Souls is real-time without pausing & features one of if not the best RPG combat systems.

Dark Souls is an RPG?

You tell me. Nobody seems to be able to agree oin what exactly defines/qualifies as an RPG. That said, DS is in the codex's top 70 cRPG list so it would seem the general consensus here is that it qualifies.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The worst thing about U7 combat was your teammates ignored your directions most of the time. They'd run off into the woods towards 3-4 baddies lol. Shit but still, exciting shit.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

1) Ultima 7, but I don't know if it's just me who was really incompetent then, or if the combat was truly awful. I've played it in 95, back when I first got a PC, and never replayed since.
2) Arcanum - for mage combat was way too simple, and for tech character sometimes hard, but, sadly it was retarded for both.
3) Legend of Grimrock - disliked that cha-cha-cha combat encounters, but then again, it's a matter of personal preference I suppose.
4) Dishonourable jRPG mention - really hated combat encounters in Persona 3, both dungeon design and idiotic party AI.

 

[Jaesun]

1) Ultima 7, but I don't know if it's just me who was really incompetent then, or if the combat was truly awful. I've played it in 95, back when I first got a PC, and never replayed since.

It is that awful. Granted AT THE TIME, it was quite revolutionary (a large interactive open world, real time combat etc....). The combat was just terrible.

The rest of the game is great however.

 

[Agesilaus]

The worst thing about U7 combat was your teammates ignored your directions most of the time. They'd run off into the woods towards 3-4 baddies lol. Shit but still, exciting shit.

Exactly, it was exciting. Sorry you can't telepathically control your teammates, deal with it. You can give them general instructions, but otherwise be prepared for a desperate and dynamic combat system. Explosions going off, new combatants running in from the sides, opportunities to set traps and cast spells, it's pretty fantastic.

If you don't like Ultima 7's rtwp combat, then you're a boring person and you have no appreciation for what is being simulated. Chess is great, and so is the way that Ultima 7 has thousands of mongbats streaming in from all directions when you cast conjuration.

 

[baturinsky]

For me - any TB game where move animation can not be set to "instant" or "nearly instant".

 

[Telengard]

How can anything truly compare to slowly kicking someone's leg to death in real-time?

 

[Orma]

Witcher 2.

And pretty much every Bioware game.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

The worst thing about U7 combat was your teammates ignored your directions most of the time. They'd run off into the woods towards 3-4 baddies lol. Shit but still, exciting shit.

Exactly, it was exciting. Sorry you can't telepathically control your teammates, deal with it. You can give them general instructions, but otherwise be prepared for a desperate and dynamic combat system. Explosions going off, new combatants running in from the sides, opportunities to set traps and cast spells, it's pretty fantastic.

If you don't like Ultima 7's rtwp combat, then you're a boring person and you have no appreciation for what is being simulated. Chess is great, and so is the way that Ultima 7 has thousands of mongbats streaming in from all directions when you cast conjuration.

Whoa there, I said it was exciting in an adrenaline sense but so is a fucking car crash. I am not in the club of U7 combat worship.

 

[Invictus]

I can understand Ultima 7, and a case could be made for Torment because it was basicaly an aventure game with some combat elements. But the hating on Darklands is weird, once you get the hang of it and you learn to maiximize every oprtunity to use your ranged weapon skills it becomes second nature, yeah the chars are not very smart and you have to micromanage almos any battle by adjusting combat orders but it becomes second nature and the game overall is superb
Oh and please ban that retard who said Wizardry 8

 

[Daemongar]

Ultima 7 is fine. I repeat, combat in Ultima 7 is fine. They beat Diablo to market by 3 or so years, and has more tactical options than Diablo, or a lot of other RTWP rpgs. Nobody plays Ultima 7 or Ultima 7 SI for the combat, so harping on how crappy it is disingenuous. They created new fucking genre with their combat system (well, Gateway to Apshai actually did, but I digress.) In U7, you equip ranged weapons or wands, you equip melee weapons, you arm your guy, you cast spells, then everyone goes bonkers slashing when combat starts and it's over in 10 seconds.

* Combat in Ultima 1 and 2 sucked. Back and forth until one died.
* Combat in MM6 in real time sucked, as it was like a fps with the S key held down for pelting things with arrows (but it was fun, but combat in u7 is fun, but that's not the important thing.)
* Combat in Lands of Lore 2 sucked, as it was a click fest.
* Combat in Dungeon Seige sucked as it was almost moronic how little interaction there was.. with anything. I remember playing for two hours when it came out and realizing what I did didn't matter.

Just how important are tactics in your rpg combat, anyways? Very few games every tried to be JA2, but not everyone wants 20 minute combat, either. What is the ideal encounter length? Seems like the Wizardry lovers are dominating the conversation on what makes combat good.

 

[octavius]

I can understand Ultima 7, and a case could be made for Torment because it was basicaly an aventure game with some combat elements. But the hating on Darklands is weird, once you get the hang of it and you learn to maiximize every oprtunity to use your ranged weapon skills it becomes second nature, yeah the chars are not very smart and you have to micromanage almos any battle by adjusting combat orders but it becomes second nature and the game overall is superb

Once you get full plate for all your guys they are nearly invincible to most enemies, and you can just sit back and watch them do their job.

Just how important are tactics in your rpg combat, anyways? Very few games every tried to be JA2, but not everyone wants 20 minute combat, either. What is the ideal encounter length? Seems like the Wizardry lovers are dominating the conversation on what makes combat good.

For maximum tactics in as short time as possible, the abstract, phased combat of the Wizardry, Bard's Tale and MM1-2 games is probably the most effective.

 

[Black]

Codex is pretty high up there. It's just turn-based shit flinging with occasional plane tickets limit break.