Why do people hate Oblivion so much?

[Farewell into the night]

I don't know, I just don't like the formula. It's complex, yet shallow. I feel the same about Skyrim.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

I don't know, I just don't like the formula. It's complex, yet shallow. I feel the same about Skyrim.

Then you dislike the series in general since its all the same formula. Some people hate Oblivion like it completely changed the formula or something.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/

/thread

 

[Okagron]

https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/

/thread

I knew Oblivion was a severe dumbing down from Morrowind by the amount of stuff it was removed, but it's even worse than i thought. All the cool shit i didn't know that was removed from Morrowind. Thanks for the link.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Rofl that guy is trying to say that stat based lockpicking is better than the mini-game. He is also bent on comparing Oblivion to Morrowind and shows how ignorant he is about the series and RPGs in general.

He bashes the 'twitch based combat' that relies on player skill when in Daggerfall its even easier to abuse the combat by dodging hits.

In the end this confirms my theory that Oblivion's most passionate haters are either 1- Bethesda haters in general or 2- Morrowind fanboys with no experience with previous titles or RPGs in general.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Rofl that guy is trying to say that stat based lockpicking is better than the mini-game. He is also bent on comparing Oblivion to Morrowind and shows how ignorant he is about the series and RPGs in general.

He bashes the 'twitch based combat' that relies on player skill when in Daggerfall its even easier to abuse the combat by dodging hits.

In the end this confirms my theory that Oblivion's most passionate haters are either 1- Bethesda haters in general or 2- Morrowind fanboys with no experience with previous titles or RPGs in general.

STOP POSTING

 

[Okagron]

Rofl that guy is trying to say that stat based lockpicking is better than the mini-game.

He says lockpicking is better in Morrowind because it's based on the character's stats and not on player skill. What is the point of investing on a skill that can be bypassed with player's skill? I can literally open a master lock with very low lockpicking skill. Same with speechcrafting.

Again, you are cherry picking and not actually addressing any of the legit criticism in that link. And then resort to the "you're just a Bethesda hater" or "you don't know what a RPG is" when you fucking said Fallout 3 is a good RPG.

Do you want to have an argument or are you gonna keep resorting to blanket statements?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Do you want to have an argument or are you gonna keep resorting to blanket statements?

He'll do neither, he'll just continue to go Full Retard.

 

[Okagron]

He'll do neither, he'll just continue to go Full Retard.

Sounds about right. This talk made me want to play Morrowind, i think i'll do that.

 

[Alkarl]

In the end this confirms my theory that Oblivion's most passionate haters are either 1- Bethesda haters in general or 2- Morrowind fanboys with no experience with previous titles or RPGs in general.

How does that theory go exactly? Is there a premise? A thesis? What is it based on? How are you compiling the results?

Is it possible there is no theory and you're just using personal interpretation?

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Dice-roll based skills are cool when playing actual tabletop RPGs, because its pretty much the only option avail. You couldnt have a lockpicking minigame in a D&D game, and even if you could it would be time consuming and annoying to the other players.

What exactly is exiting about spamming a lockpick skill on a lock until you succeed and open it? It offers absolutely zero value in a video game. Oblivion's minigame nailed it, and it is much more immersive. It is better fitting for the type of game it tries to be. As far as video games and interactive entertainment goes, Oblivion wins by a long shot.

That minigame would be a dumb gimmick in an isometric RPG like BG, because it doesnt fit the scale of the game. Though I bet you that if the devs could have implemented that minigame in Morrowind, they would have, because it fits.

By the way Im not cherry picking at all, I literally read the first paragraph of the RP section and saw that. Anyway TL;DR, just read it for me and try to find the 3 strongest arguments of that essay. Ill break them like I did with the rest.

 

[Squid]

Dice-roll based skills are cool when playing actual tabletop RPGs, because its pretty much the only option avail.

Fooled me, I thought you might say you ought to dress up and go LARP and show off your "player skills" rather than play a tabletop game.

Ill break them like I did with the rest.

Using broken logic doesn't mean you broke the initial argument just as a warning before you get ahead of yourself.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Dice-roll based skills are cool when playing actual tabletop RPGs, because its pretty much the only option avail.

Fooled me, I thought you might say you ought to dress up and go LARP and show off your "player skills" rather than play a tabletop game.

Ill break them like I did with the rest.

Using broken logic doesn't mean you broke the initial argument just as a warning before you get ahead of yourself.

That argument was weak as fuck. Saying that the game lacks role-playing because lockpicking isnt dice-roll based is ignorant as fuck. Since when is role-playing strictly a dice-rolling thing? That guy is stuck in a mindset telling him that Oblivion is a 'RPG' and thus should follow the universal laws of 'RPG's, that even Codexers couldnt properly define after all those years.

How exactly did I use broken logic to counter the argument? Maybe you have a broken perception, maybe your head is crippled.

 

[Wayward Son]

That guy is stuck in a mindset telling him that Oblivion is a 'RPG' and thus should follow the universal laws of 'RPG's, that even Codexers couldnt properly define after all those years.

Finally got to the point of "But what IS an RPG?"
But really though, you can't argue that Oblivion was supposed to be an RPG since that's what it was marketed and sold as. It's missing good RPG mechanics that the predecessor had, without adding many of its own to replace them, so that by default makes it a lesser RPG. You can attempt to debate the relative quality of it as an overall game, but stop trying to argue that Morrowind is a lesser RPG than Oblivion.

 

[Squid]

How exactly did I use broken logic to counter the argument?

Which argument? Because sometimes I feel like you're not arguing and you're just saying, "Haha minigames r gr8! Stats succ." Anyway, it was more of a warning for you to not confuse using broken logic on an argument and breaking down an argument and finding its faults. I could see it happening.

Maybe you have a broken perception, maybe your head is crippled.

Uh, okay?

 

[FeelTheRads]

You couldnt have a lockpicking minigame in a D&D game,

You actually shouldn't have a fucking minigame at all in either computer or tabletop games. Because minigames are retarded shit for morons like you.

On the other hand, you could and can and is desirable to have puzzles that the players have to solve with or without the help of skill-checks.

Again you're talking about shit you have no clue about, namely: tabletop RPGs. You really don't get tired of having the floor wiped with you.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

Which argument? Did you really lose track of the discussion over 2-3 comments? ''Anyway it was more of just like dropping a comment for the sake of commenting while not really thinking about it'' I think this sums it up.

You couldnt have a lockpicking minigame in a D&D game,

You actually shouldn't have a fucking minigame at all in either computer or tabletop games. Because minigames are retarded shit for morons like you.

On the other hand, you could and can and is desirable to have puzzles that the players have to solve with or without the help of skill-checks.

Again you're talking about shit you have no clue about, namely: tabletop RPGs. You really don't get tired of having the floor wiped with you.

I clearly mentioned in the same sentence that minigames wouldnt be desirable in a tabletop game, but tl;dr I guess. Minigames have absolutely nothing wrong about them.

Agreed that puzzles are a huge addition when well implemented. They are also very rare. IIRC Oblivion has at least 1 or 2 good puzzles in some dungeons.

 

[Okagron]

Let's look at this way: Why does Oblivion allow you to invest into lockpicking? If you can pretty much pass the minigame everytime without needing to invest into it, what is the point? If they wanted it to be a minigame, then they shouldn't have made it a skill you can invest into. Bethesda is still sticking the rules of RPG by having you invest into a skill, by proxy making the character better at that skill. But because it can by bypassed with player skill, it has no point in being invested.

Adding a minigame that is player skill based is the antithesis to this, you can't have the skill behave like a normal RPG (you have the auto attempt that is based on the character's skill) but then have a way to bypass through player skill.

This is atrocious design.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I clearly mentioned in the same sentence that minigames wouldnt be desirable in a tabletop game, but tl;dr I guess.

And I clearly said they are not desirable anywhere. But you're too dumb to understand, I guess.

Minigames have absolutely nothing wrong about them.

Minigames have absolutely everything wrong with them. They're repetitive and a complete waste of time. And Bethesda's games are some of the most offensive in this regard. Just the same shit over and over and over again. Their only purpose is to give kids the feeling that they're doing something when all they do is slam the keys like a trained monkey each time the bell sounds. No wonder a monkey brain like you thinks they're so great.

 

[Alkarl]

I don't mind the lockpicking in Oblivion.

That said, it's extremely inane. When it isn't directly related to a dice-roll + skill modifier, and even master level locks can conceivably be picked by a novice, given every opportunity and resource, then opening the lock is an inevitably, not a consequence of skill. You could just load up on a bunch of cheap lockpicks and auto-pick till you get it and since while you're doing this your skill will be increasing, eventually auto-picking becomes the defacto method, completely trivializing the point of the mini-game. Which is to say that even when you lose, Oblivion rewards you.

 

[Squid]

Which argument? Did you really lose track of the discussion over 2-3 comments?

My bad, I just didn't want to assume you necessarily meant your previous argument since this thread has been you vs the world on the subject of Oblivion for awhile now. I don't know where you think you're gonna get in this thread though.

 

[mfkndggrfll]

''Let's look at this way: Why does Oblivion allow you to invest into lockpicking? If you can pretty much pass the minigame everytime without needing to invest into it''

Did you want them to remove yet another skill? You dont truely 'invest' anything by the way, aside from picking it as major/minor skill. Would you have preferred a simple dice-roll based on stats? Or a simple stat check to see if you unlock X chest or not? Have every locked chest on the map get its own lvl requirement?

''Adding a minigame that is player skill based is the antithesis to this, you can't have the skill behave like a normal RPG''

Once again implying that Oblivion should be like a 'normal RPG', like it was meant to be any different from the previous games...

Stat based actions allow you to reload your saves and unlock pretty much anything, because lets be honest here, if you invest in lockpick then find a treasure chest that you can attempt to unlock but fail to, you WILL reload your save. Each system has its own flaws.

By the way Oblivion doesnt force you to play the minigame, you can just use auto-pick like Alkarl said. Though in the end, unlocking a master lock and getting stuff you shouldnt have access to early on feels much more rewarding than dumping stat points on a skill and roll a dice until you 'win'.

 

[Wayward Son]

Though in the end, unlocking a master lock and getting stuff you shouldnt have access to early on feels much more rewarding than dumping stat points on a skill and roll a dice until you 'win'.

Except for the fact that it's all level scaled anyway. So you don't get access to anything cool or better beforehand. You get 2 gold and a potato.

 

[Alkarl]

By the way Oblivion doesnt force you to play the minigame, you can just use auto-pick like Alkarl said.

That isn't a good thing though!

That gave me a good little chuckle. It's fine guys, you don't have to do the mini game at all! Aren't ya glad they included it?

Usually when you put in an alternative to lockpicking, its a str based roll to bash it open or you destroy the container.

You get 2 gold and a potato.

That guy knew the value of a potato.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

50% Bloom visual effect

25% autolevel

25% Quest compasses