World building is king

[adrix89]

Why are we talking about Mass Effect in a world-building thread?
Are you all idiots?

 

[laclongquan]

They really should have been designed as descendants of Terran sexbot with AIs run wild. It would have been consistent with history as we imagine it might happen in future. But well, Bioware writers department are proud of their creative skills so they think they can be smarter than decades of SF world buildings in fiction.

Following that trope would be like waving dicks at some real smart nerds, and they want a chance to show off their nonexistent skill.

The result is as you see.

 

[xXGunsNRoses420Xx]

One of my best gaming experiences is yelling at people for wood in Cattan. Putting story before game changes the whole dynamic of the game and either being better is a thing of choice. Ideally for me a game will have mechanics which will gear a good story. I guess we are talking about worldbuilding but in proper, good game (i reckon) mechanics and worldbuilding are the same. Looking topography, architecture, (lolllll) a cohesive cosmology and a resemblance to whatever your idea of the world or genre and you want escapism before gameplay probably.

Buy a Oculus.

 

[Sacred82]

I guess we are talking about worldbuilding but in proper, good game (i reckon) mechanics and worldbuilding are the same.

I don't even

Buy a Oculus.

needless to say VR will prove a setback to proper world building because muh reality

 

[xXGunsNRoses420Xx]

I guess we are talking about worldbuilding but in proper, good game (i reckon) mechanics and worldbuilding are the same.

I don't even

How you interact with the world is as much worldbuilding as the setting it im trying say. They are hella intertwine. Why are you going to want to spend time in a simulated world if the mechanics of it are boring? What wpuld Fallout be without S.P.E.C.I.A.L? Anyway I think lot of games do better when they consider mechanics before setting.

 

[DraQ]

I have no problems with people gaming the system - it's designing games with people gaming systems in mind that's detrimental to the genre.

The problem here is people's perceptions gaming the entirety of game design, before the people themselves even have any say in it.
Brains are good at finding patterns, because patterns repeatedly ate those that were not.

They're saying they're stupid, which is also true. They're extremely stupid. The fact that Star Trek did it and now they're referencing it doesn't make it intelligent or good.

It doesnt need to be intelligent to be good. Its fucking space adventures, its inspired in the series that had a robot fuck a blond big breasted officer because space virus. How do you deal with the retards that believe it needs to be clever and deep to be fun? because i have no idea other than insulting them while explaining something that im fairly certain will go over their stupid heads.

You're simultaneously arguing that your favourite retarded space porn game has good worldbuilding and the kind of worldbuilding that is expected from a retarded space porn game.

Please, stop.

Yet you refuse to acknowledge WHY this was done. Much like orion slaves it wasnt done to make a "3deep4u" statement, it was inspired in the serials of the past and they needed to be beautiful and blue skinned, and promiscuous to be effective.

You have described the polar opposite of what "good worldbuilding" means.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

It doesnt need to be intelligent to be good.

Mass Effect fans in a nutshell

 

[Lhynn]

You're simultaneously arguing that your favourite retarded space porn game has good worldbuilding and the kind of worldbuilding that is expected from a retarded space porn game.

Im arguing that you dont need it to be realistic for it to be good. Also "porn game" because it has about 15 seconds of flirty cinematics on a 40 hours game. Great reasoning there you stupid cuck.
Finally, not even close to being my favorite game. I just hate it when people criticize shit for the wrong reasons.

You have described the polar opposite of what "good worldbuilding" means.

No i havent you closeted faggot. What i have said is that world building has to suit the needs of the plot and the genre, and ME1 does that well. Beautiful blue alien womyn are as much at home in the ME games as vaults are in fallout, or as much as evil wizards are in medieval fantasy.

It doesnt need to be intelligent to be good.

Mass Effect fans in a nutshell

Well, most fiction in a nutshell actually. And i meant intelligent in an intellectual and academic way.
Plenty of smart things in ME1. Like the whole salarian/krogan/genophage thing, or stuff so very small that few people really notice or remember, like not needing to reload weapons. Plenty of things show the design of ME1 was both thought out and clever, but it never aspired to be anything more than fun space opera sci fi. Judging something by standards from a different genre is a pretty stupid practice, not to mention that if anyone were to follow said criticism, theyd end up with a lesser game.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

Judging by the standards of the genre your claiming Mass Effect is then its pretty crummy. The strange new worlds aren't that strange, we never seek out new life and civilizations and we hardly ever boldly go where no man has gone before and those sections are so handy holdy it doesn't count. The only thing Mass Effect has in common with Star Trek and that sort of scifi is some superficial elements and shameless political propaganda built into the world and plot.

 

[adrix89]

For fucks sake people still talking about Mass Effect?
That universe evaporated any semblance of world the moment the Reapers showed up.
They actually succeed in making SPACE not fucking mysterious and weird by killing everything off. That goes beyond the call of duty of fucking things up.
All we got is the alien A-Team against the big bad. No wonder the ending was such a shitshow, they made an abortion from the start.

I had lost complete interest in the universe after the first Mass Effect.
Mass Effect was always gone flatline and people expect something from Andromeda without the Reapers? The Reapers is the ONLY thing it had.
What ancient ruins and shit? The big bad SPACE is that all it is? Archeology?

 

[Sacred82]

Why are you going to want to spend time in a simulated world if the mechanics of it are boring?

because the mechanics don't drag the world down. If it is cohesive, and it's plausible, and it feels alive - I don't care if combat consists of clicking until something is dead. The question of why there is combat in the world, and where and when and who against whom, that's what makes the game more than a combat simulator.

You want to spend time in it because the simulation is interesting and new in a way - if it needs disparate elements like an elaborate combat System, that's a sign of the world being weak.

What wpuld Fallout be without S.P.E.C.I.A.L? Anyway I think lot of games do better when they consider mechanics before setting.

I don't know if Fallout is a good example of what you're trying to say... what was fun about it? Stealth? Combat? Hacking? Fallout felt great because of the dense atmosphere it had - btw it's a good example of thought-out architecture in games which has been scoffed at.

 

[Beastro]

Think the issue with the ME space babes is the disturbing degree of world building that went into their background and existence instead of it being simple and tongue in cheek like Star Control's Syreens.

 

[CosmicCommander]

For fucks sake people still talking about Mass Effect?
That universe evaporated any semblance of world the moment the Reapers showed up.
They actually succeed in making SPACE not fucking mysterious and weird by killing everything off. That goes beyond the call of duty of fucking things up.

I'm not following your point. I think you're saying that the Reapers hurt the universe in some way, but I don't follow your rationale if that is the point.

I loved ME1 (ME2 onwards is a painful memory) with some great worldbuilding. It wasn't the hardest science fiction compared to the literary greats of the genre, but the universe actually did broadly make a great deal of sense and it was some of the hardest science fiction they put in a game. The Reapers were something I found fascinating through their mystery and seeming near-omnipotence.

 

[LizardWizard]

Actually Morrowind is the posterboy for how decent worldbuilding can not save a game from being complete shit.

 

[laclongquan]

That's a matter of opinions. I myself think Morrowind is a poster boy of worldbuilding and mechanics can not prevent bad writings from destroy it all...
..
.
Then again, some people around here think Morrowind writings are good. Mind Boggles!

 

[Sacred82]

Morrowind's clone NPC's are its biggest failure, world building wise.

 

[huckc]

Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout Vegas = ADHD theme parks.

Especially the latter which completely ruined the game for me. Run around the map in a perfect circle from ride to ride then go to the middle for the finale.

 

[Lhynn]

Judging by the standards of the genre your claiming Mass Effect is then its pretty crummy. The strange new worlds aren't that strange, we never seek out new life and civilizations and we hardly ever boldly go where no man has gone before and those sections are so handy holdy it doesn't count. The only thing Mass Effect has in common with Star Trek and that sort of scifi is some superficial elements and shameless political propaganda built into the world and plot.

ME was very derivative of star trek.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Op is faggot but not good enough to be king, more like peasant faggot

The basic, most important part of an RPG is the philosophical statement that the writer is trying to make. Mechanics and world building are secondary features that should be used to support the statement.

That's why LOTR is shit. Sure, you're got talking trees and orcs and swordfights and a dude eating undercooked chicken old school and some dumb made up language that you can translate but when you boil the story down it's about a beta male's troubles with completing a simple task. Not very interesting..

Obsidian is the only developer I can think of right now who really understands this. They come up with an interesting philosophical underpinning to a story prior to saying shit like "and I want my game to have a fire mage who shoots fireballs and they gonna wear steampunk outfits and there's gonna be a door that talks all mysterious and there's gonna be trees and it's GUNNA BE SICK"

 

[Sacred82]

Obsidian is the only developer I can think of right now who really understands this.

Stopped reading there. Unfortunately it was near the end.

They come up with an interesting philosophical underpinning to a story prior to saying shit like "and I want my game to have a fire mage who shoots fireballs and they gonna wear steampunk outfits and there's gonna be a door that talks all mysterious and there's gonna be trees and it's GUNNA BE SICK"

Pillars' story was, like, deep man. What was it about again?

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Obsidian is the only developer I can think of right now who really understands this.

Stopped reading there. Unfortunately it was near the end.

They come up with an interesting philosophical underpinning to a story prior to saying shit like "and I want my game to have a fire mage who shoots fireballs and they gonna wear steampunk outfits and there's gonna be a door that talks all mysterious and there's gonna be trees and it's GUNNA BE SICK"

Pillars' story was, like, deep man. What was it about again?

To think that Fallout, PS:T, KOTOR2 were disigned without philosophical underpinnings is ridiculous.

I haven't played Pillars (no time for an RPG right now) but a from a quick google search it seems like it was certainly designed in similar fashion.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78759-the-themes-of-pillars-religion-and-dostoevsky-spoilers/

 

[Lhynn]

Implying the people that designed those games are actively working on making more for obsidian is ridonkulous.

 

[Coma White]

To think that Fallout, PS:T, KOTOR2 were disigned without philosophical underpinnings is ridiculous.

It's not actually. MCA has stated in interviews (I can't find it at the moment -- I think it was a Eurogamer podcast postmortem-ing KOTOR II) that he doesn't approach his stories or characters with any particular philosophical or intellectual agenda. Rather his approach is almost exclusively character-driven. In the case of KOTOR II, Kreia as a character gave voice to MCA's frustrations with the Star Wars mythology, and these frustrations over time bled over into aspects of the storytelling. KOTOR II isn't about philosophy; it's about creative catharsis. It's indirectly informed by philosophical underpinnings, but it isn't built on them.

Shameless plug: entertain my LP of KOTOR II if you are really into this shit. I certainly am, and I will talk about this game's construction until the cows come home.

EDIT: I think this is the podcast I am referencing.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

To think that Fallout, PS:T, KOTOR2 were disigned without philosophical underpinnings is ridiculous.

It's not actually. MCA has stated in interviews (I can't find it at the moment -- I think it was a Eurogamer podcast postmortem-ing KOTOR II) that he doesn't approach his stories or characters with any particular philosophical or intellectual agenda. Rather his approach is almost exclusively character-driven. In the case of KOTOR II, Kreia as a character gave voice to MCA's frustrations with the Star Wars mythology, and these frustrations over time bled over into aspects of the storytelling. KOTOR II isn't about philosophy; it's about creative catharsis. It's indirectly informed by philosophical underpinnings, but it isn't built on them.

Shameless plug: entertain my LP of KOTOR II if you are really into this shit. I certainly am, and I will talk about this game's construction until the cows come home.

He said in an interview that Kreia is used to address his problems with the force in Star Wars mythos. KOTOR II's story is entirely built around Kreia and MCA's issues with the force are philosophical in nature.

Since Kreia represents his issues with the force she is the philosophical underpinning to the story. Everything else in the game; encounters, quests, locations, etc.. is designed around Kreia.

The point i'm trying to make is that RPGs that are designed without an interesting philosophical statement at its foundation are empty and lack substance. When world building or mechanics come first in design you end up with Skyrim, doomed to be consumed and tossed out immediately when some higher graphics shitfest releases. When philosophy comes first you end up with Morrowind.

 

[Sacred82]

When philosophy comes first you end up with Morrowind.

You backpedal to kill dumb NPC's without personality and sell their dowry to a mudcrab?