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World building is king

What is king?

  • mechanics

    Votes: 23 21.7%
  • world building

    Votes: 24 22.6%
  • OP is king of faggots

    Votes: 59 55.7%

  • Total voters
    106

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
1,866,294
Location
Anytown, USA
The basic, most important part of an RPG is the philosophical statement that the writer is trying to make. Mechanics and world building are secondary features that should be used to support the statement.
Haha, no. Mechanics should be first. Then any philosophical bullshit and then world building( tho, all three should work together.)
Do you feel that the Wizardrys are less of RPGs because they don't have some philosophical idea that they were setting up or promoting?
And what about the games or RPGs hat were built on pushing a philosophy, but had terrible mechanics? Are they instantly better RPGs than Wizardry or Fallout, which are mostly mechanics driven?
 

Coma White

Educated
Joined
Jul 9, 2016
Messages
375
Location
Malachor Depths
He said in an interview that Kreia is used to address his problems with the force in Star Wars mythos. KOTOR II's story is entirely built around Kreia and MCA's issues with the force are philosophical in nature.

Since Kreia represents his issues with the force she is the philosophical underpinning to the story. Everything else in the game; encounters, quests, locations, etc.. is designed around Kreia.

The point i'm trying to make is that RPGs that are designed without an interesting philosophical statement at its foundation are empty and lack substance. When world building or mechanics come first in design you end up with Skyrim, doomed to be consumed and tossed out immediately when some higher graphics shitfest releases. When philosophy comes first you end up with Morrowind.

I see what you're getting at. You're addressing something which is near and dear to my heart, and something which is INTEGRAL to storytelling that -- in my experience -- is not discussed enough and which is almost never taught. That is: what a story is ABOUT. And I don't mean its controlling idea -- what you're getting at goes beyond any controlling idea. A great story has to have a stance. A position. A place in the cosmos of ideas.

I like to call this a story's ethos. What is it saying, really? What good does it perform? What does it help us to understand? To where does it take us, and why?

A good story has a clear ethos -- you're right about that. But let me tell you: in my experience, a great story isn't so sure of itself. It accepts its own possibilities. Until recently I dealt with this idea a lot at my real-life job, and I will tell you: the reason most stories fail is because they have no ethos. And the reason stories which don't fail don't survive is because they don't accept the fact they can't have all the answers.

I like the way you're talking. But I assure you; you are mistaken with regards to KOTOR II's ethos. For one, it isn't so sure of itself as you are of it. And for another, the story is centered far more around the Exile than it is around Kreia. And most amusingly, she would agree with me:



4:45:

"I would have killed the galaxy to preserve you. I would have let the galaxy die. You are more rare than you know; and what you have taught yourself must not be allowed to die."
 

Space Insect

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
868
Location
Shaggai
The basic, most important part of an RPG is the philosophical statement that the writer is trying to make. Mechanics and world building are secondary features that should be used to support the statement.

That's why LOTR is shit. Sure, you're got talking trees and orcs and swordfights and a dude eating undercooked chicken old school and some dumb made up language that you can translate but when you boil the story down it's about a beta male's troubles with completing a simple task. Not very interesting..

So a Catholic philosophy does not count as a philosophy that can be easily called 2deep4u and bragged about to the internet?
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
That's why LOTR is shit. Sure, you're got talking trees and orcs and swordfights and a dude eating undercooked chicken old school and some dumb made up language that you can translate but when you boil the story down it's about a beta male's troubles with completing a simple task. Not very interesting..

Clash of civilizations and dealing with the decline and preservation of Western civilization, what caused it and what could save it which touches on exactly what is good about it from a Christian perspective, when you strip away things like nationalism from the matter where there is something good and pure that goes beyond the physical world (represented in-world as the True West, a direction unbound from simple geography that normal ships cannot sail to as a result).

That doesn't touch upon the Silmarilion and the philosophical outlook of those which at it's center is around the heroes' desire for revenge and being foretold they will not have victory if they pursue it but only ruin without the help of the True West. Most of the story is taken up of their sad pursuit of that vengeance and their utter destruction as a result, which is a direct criticism of Tolkien's towards Germanic paganism and tribalism throughout his career that was obsessed with individual glory and ego at the expense of the great picture and what truly matters in a society.

Given your handle though I'm not surprised you never gave his world a chance, much less LOTR the novel on its own one.
 
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Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
When philosophy comes first you end up with Morrowind.

You backpedal to kill dumb NPC's without personality and sell their dowry to a mudcrab?

Prophecy and reincarnation. also truth and picking apart myth from reality, like reading shit and realizing Vevev killed Nerevar. The gameplay ties into the themes where the truth is hard to find and you have to wade through a lot of fluffy to piece things together.

The game's heart is built around the moment when you get to meet all the other failed incarnations of Nerevar and finally do enough to fully qualify as him reborn.
 

Popiel

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
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1,499
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Commonwealth
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
That's why LOTR is shit. Sure, you're got talking trees and orcs and swordfights and a dude eating undercooked chicken old school and some dumb made up language that you can translate but when you boil the story down it's about a beta male's troubles with completing a simple task. Not very interesting..
Given your nickname you cannot be very intelligent, but one thing - how the hell is LotR about beta males? How is Aragorn, Éomer, Imrahil, Boromir or Faramir beta? How are hobbits beta? Are you even sane? I doubt that.

If you or anyone else thinks that one like Samwise Gamgee is beta I recommend you killing yourselves. You are part of the problem with modern culture.
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,240
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
And zog me for a dumbfuck, but how is drop a valued artifact right in the centre of enemy territory a simple task?
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Given your nickname you cannot be very intelligent, but one thing - how the hell is LotR about beta males? How is Aragorn, Éomer, Imrahil, Boromir or Faramir beta? How are hobbits beta? Are you even sane? I doubt that.

If you or anyone else thinks that one like Samwise Gamgee is beta I recommend you killing yourselves. You are part of the problem with modern culture.

...It was an extremely, EXTREMELY obvious jape regarding Frodo's passivity and hesitation in EVERY scene of the books that Elijah Wood only exacerbated to the umpteenth degree with his whining and moaning that would make a Japanese schoolgirl blush in embarrassment.

Given your nickname you cannot be very intelligent

Woof.
 

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