X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Mazisky]

How did they manage to have these new loading times?

like 5 seconds instead of 40, what sorcery is this?

Also, removing content like this is a shame, those AAA devs always cut something, loading times were part of the game

 

[ArchAngel]

How did they manage to have these new loading times?

like 5 seconds instead of 40, what sorcery is this?

Also, removing content like this is a shame, those AAA devs always cut something, loading times were part of the game

Too bad the technical improvements are best part of this expansion. And worse they decided to charge for this fix to their shitty game. I would prefer to play Xcom 2 vanilla LW2 with these performance fixes.

 

[Mazisky]

How did they manage to have these new loading times?

like 5 seconds instead of 40, what sorcery is this?

Also, removing content like this is a shame, those AAA devs always cut something, loading times were part of the game

Too bad the technical improvements are best part of this expansion. And worse they decided to charge for this fix to their shitty game. I would prefer to play Xcom 2 vanilla LW2 with these performance fixes.

The expansion is good, and lw2 is pure hardcore.
Normal people play games too u know, if you wanna play complex stuff that need a 100 page manual look for some indie with bad graphics, nuxcom is not for u


However i cant disagree about fixes, they should have updated the base game too. That was pretty bad by firaxis

 

[Jaedar]

Normal people play games too u know, if you wanna play complex stuff that need a 100 page manual look for some indie with bad graphics

I remember when we didn't have people like this in Strategy, those were the days.

 

[Mazisky]

Normal people play games too u know, if you wanna play complex stuff that need a 100 page manual look for some indie with bad graphics

I remember when we didn't have people like this in Strategy, those were the days.

Man, i finished ufo defense when i was 12 and then almost all strategy games till now.
From dune 2 to commandos, ja2, silent storm, u remember those?
They were complex but not complicated amd they all had decent graphics for the time.
Silent storm in particular had some crazy 3d engine, so what's your point?

 

[Jasede]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

 

[ArchAngel]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

While I think most people will agree doing complex math equation will be better use of the your time, jerking off can be fun and "quality" time. It does not make jerking off of same quality as math and being all buthurt when people point that out is not doing anyone any favors and making you look like a fool in the process.

 

[Mazisky]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

While I think most people will agree doing complex math equation will be better use of the your time, jerking off can be fun and "quality" time. It does not make jerking off of same quality as math and being all buthurt when people point that out is not doing anyone any favors and making you look like a fool in the process.

Why doing complex math should be more "quality time" than jerking off for a normal guy who is not an ugly fat nerd with glasses?
U know what, even those will probably enjoy more jerking off, lel

 

[Jimmious]

Been playing the expansion... It's good it's what it is. Has a LOT of new stuff, a LOT of new mechanics.
The Lost change the dynamic of combat often, as you can use them to your advantage too.
It's not perfect of course but it's the problems of the main game that are unfixable, for example the combat will always be "remove as many aliens from the pod you triggered on one turn". At least the Lost added a third element to that

 

[Burning Bridges]

Good god the discussion here has reached the same low level as current AAA games.

 

[Galdred]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

While I think most people will agree doing complex math equation will be better use of the your time, jerking off can be fun and "quality" time. It does not make jerking off of same quality as math and being all buthurt when people point that out is not doing anyone any favors and making you look like a fool in the process.

Solving math equations is only useful as part of solving a larger problem, not as an end by itself.
Now, it is true that if you are trying to solve a problem, like what damage and mana values are acceptable for your fireball spell so that it is not overpowered compared to call lightning, or if you are studying physics and trying to understand the Lorentz transfomations (the implication of having a fixed speed of light when it comes to time and space dilatation), then obviously, solving the relevant equations will make more sense than jerking off.

But I'd wager that mathematicians are more likely to jerk off than to solve math equation during their free time, and that the people who solve math equations during their free time for the sake of it are those whose math skills are irrelevant anyway (ie those who don't use math at all in their work).

 

[ArchAngel]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

While I think most people will agree doing complex math equation will be better use of the your time, jerking off can be fun and "quality" time. It does not make jerking off of same quality as math and being all buthurt when people point that out is not doing anyone any favors and making you look like a fool in the process.

Why doing complex math should be more "quality time" than jerking off for a normal guy who is not an ugly fat nerd with glasses?
U know what, even those will probably enjoy more jerking off, lel

Because one trains your brain, the other does nothing except give short fleeting pleasure. Just like how real games vs popamole games work.

 

[ArchAngel]

Been playing the expansion... It's good it's what it is. Has a LOT of new stuff, a LOT of new mechanics.
The Lost change the dynamic of combat often, as you can use them to your advantage too.
It's not perfect of course but it's the problems of the main game that are unfixable, for example the combat will always be "remove as many aliens from the pod you triggered on one turn". At least the Lost added a third element to that

In LW1 and LW2 you can have longer combats that are not about removing enemies as fast as possible. In LW2 they added more slots of all soldier and made it so you can carry plenty of flashbangs and smoke grenades that let you delay killing enemies.
This expansion just like vanilla Xcom 2 is crap in that part of the design. It is way more coin flippy and random due to lack of tools in early to mid game while then giving too many tools and nothing to your opposition in later mid game and late game.

 

[Galdred]

Been playing the expansion... It's good it's what it is. Has a LOT of new stuff, a LOT of new mechanics.
The Lost change the dynamic of combat often, as you can use them to your advantage too.
It's not perfect of course but it's the problems of the main game that are unfixable, for example the combat will always be "remove as many aliens from the pod you triggered on one turn". At least the Lost added a third element to that

In LW1 and LW2 you can have longer combats that are not about removing enemies as fast as possible. In LW2 they added more slots of all soldier and made it so you can carry plenty of flashbangs and smoke grenades that let you delay killing enemies.
This expansion just like vanilla Xcom 2 is crap in that part of the design. It is way more coin flippy and random due to lack of tools in early to mid game while then giving too many tools and nothing to your opposition in later mid game and late game.

Indeed, but both made the game a bit too long, and LW2 focused too much on avoiding combat and stealth, which remains not that great in the engine (compared to a game focused completely on stealth like Invisible Inc) IMO.

Because one trains your brain, the other does nothing except give short fleeting pleasure. Just like how real games vs popamole games work.

That is not the main difference between XCOM and X-COM actually:
Saying XCOM does not train your brain is untrue. You have to excute perfectly to beat the game on the highest setting. The main difference is that X-COM forces you to adapt to whatever happen, while XCOM is about making everything goes according to plan, because you have very little room for failure, so you cannot really adapt to it if it happens early on. It is mostly because of the way pods work, and because you cannot allow too many aliens to take shots at you given your roster size and the importance of skilling your soldiers up.

XCOM trains your memory much better than X-COM did, as learning the layout, patrol paths, and pod locations of the hardest maps helps a lot. I doubt it is really what makes a great game.

 

[Jimmious]

Ι tried LW2 too... While I did like some elements obviously, it was taking too long for my taste and had too many "obscure" mechanics that required trial and error.
I don't mind that too much but my time is relatively limited, to the point that I at least don't want to extend an already long game by so much.
I prefer WOTC since I accept XCOM2 for what it is - a really cool board-game in my PC. It's not "simulationy" and will never be regardless of what mods try to do

 

[Space Satan]

In LW1 and LW2 you can have longer combats that are not about removing enemies as fast as possible. In LW2 they added more slots of all soldier and made it so you can carry plenty of flashbangs and smoke grenades that let you delay killing enemies.

For fucking real? LW2 is a pinnacle of cancer of first strikes. Because you have to kill not 3 lousy aliens, but 6-8 armored aliens, with rockets, grenades and other shit. You HAVE to kill as much as possible of them because otherwise you are fucked.

 

[ArchAngel]

In LW1 and LW2 you can have longer combats that are not about removing enemies as fast as possible. In LW2 they added more slots of all soldier and made it so you can carry plenty of flashbangs and smoke grenades that let you delay killing enemies.

For fucking real? LW2 is a pinnacle of cancer of first strikes. Because you have to kill not 3 lousy aliens, but 6-8 armored aliens, with rockets, grenades and other shit. You HAVE to kill as much as possible of them because otherwise you are fucked.

Not my experience. I had plenty of longer combats due to smart use of flashbangs, smoke grenades and other defensive tools. They did give enemies a lot of deadly attacks but they also made it so you can disable all those attacks with your flashbangs, fire and specialists. Also less timed missions and those that are, they now have soft timers.
I noticed that some of the haven defense missions in WotC are clearly inspired by LW2 versions but shittier. Much shittier.
Best parts about WotC are not game design, mission design and such but engine fixes, new cool UI for stuff, UI for covert missions and similar stuff.
I wish Pavonis and Firaxis made a game together in a way they let Pavonis guys actually design it while they do all the graphical parts.
And of course force Pavonis to include details about their design into the game.

As Jimmious said above, the obscure mechanics of LW2 are not fun. I really like LW2 but I didn't enjoy needing to figure out everything (or reading about it online) before I can actually make proper plan around how to play the campaign and tactical missions. Some figuring out is OK but Pavonis take it to another level.

If I was to explain it using other terms:
Basically they take Checkers players, put them into front of a Chess board but these players never seen it before, they don't tell you how you are supposed to play it and force you to play vs an experienced player until you figure it all out yourself. It is not as fun for those first 10+ hours, but it becomes fucking awesome later.

 

[Galdred]

In LW1 and LW2 you can have longer combats that are not about removing enemies as fast as possible. In LW2 they added more slots of all soldier and made it so you can carry plenty of flashbangs and smoke grenades that let you delay killing enemies.

For fucking real? LW2 is a pinnacle of cancer of first strikes. Because you have to kill not 3 lousy aliens, but 6-8 armored aliens, with rockets, grenades and other shit. You HAVE to kill as much as possible of them because otherwise you are fucked.

Not my experience. I had plenty of longer combats due to smart use of flashbangs, smoke grenades and other defensive tools. They did give enemies a lot of deadly attacks but they also made it so you can disable all those attacks with your flashbangs, fire and specialists. Also less timed missions and those that are, they now have soft timers.
I noticed that some of the haven defense missions in WotC are clearly inspired by LW2 versions but shittier. Much shittier.
Best parts about WotC are not game design, mission design and such but engine fixes, new cool UI for stuff, UI for covert missions and similar stuff.
I wish Pavonis and Firaxis made a game together in a way they let Pavonis guys actually design it while they do all the graphical parts.
And of course force Pavonis to include details about their design into the game.

As Jimmious said above, the obscure mechanics of LW2 are not fun. I really like LW2 but I didn't enjoy needing to figure out everything (or reading about it online) before I can actually make proper plan around how to play the campaign and tactical missions. Some figuring out is OK but Pavonis take it to another level.

If I was to explain it using other terms:
Basically they take Checkers players, put them into front of a Chess board but these players never seen it before, they don't tell you how you are supposed to play it and force you to play vs an experienced player until you figure it all out yourself. It is not as fun for those first 10+ hours, but it becomes fucking awesome later.

You forgot to add that they would also remove any of your chess piece that would have made an incorrect move.

 

[Achilles]

Probably not much of a point. A lot of people are baffled by the notion that you could like Nu-XCOM while ALSO loving UFO/TFTD. In their mind, as soon as you like the newer game, you are automatically a decline harbinger who wants every game to be dumbed down and easy - instead of, as reality often is, someone who appreciates every game on its own merits. Oblivion would still be trash even if it had Daggerfall's complex systems and old TFTD would still be amazing even if had a slightly simplified system as long as the combat remains tight and the music/atmosphere on point. The complexity simply has nothing to do with the quality... I know so many complex games that are trash.

I am a huge X-Com fan. TFTD is basically the reason that I'm a gamer because it grabbed me like no other game before or after (I played TFTD first and then EU). I absolutely adore the original games, I like the nuXCOM series. It kind of feels like seeing your first crush after many years, she's gotten fat and wrinkly but part of her charm is still there. I enjoy the nuXCOM games because 1. they're turn-based strategy which is my favorite genre, 2. I've learned to live with their idiosyncracies and 3. they remind me of the original games.

They have so many fundamental issues though. Even if someone loves these games he has to be able to recognize their flaws. The whole pod activation system needs to go away.

 

[Jasede]

Right. How many good tactical turn-based strategy games can you name that have a solid strategy layer (WITH TIME PRESSURE!) and a genuine high difficulty? Legendary is /tough/ - probably harder than Superhuman in UFO and I played the SHIT out of UFO. No, they're not like UFO/TFTD. They're more like a modern spin-off board game. But that board game is pretty damn good.

And absolutely agreed on the pods. You could probably make it so that every 'pod' is 1 person, but every 'pod' is drawn by sound. That way you could still have ye olde "Hunt the last lobsterman hiding in a closet!" feeling.

By the way, are you looking forward to XCOM 3? I think a Lovecraftian horror vibe would work really well with the series. TFTD is near and dear to my heart and I wouldn't mind playing the boardgame version of it.

Tentaculats!!! The horror, the horror...

 

[Parabalus]

Got a mission with the 'Surgical' sitrep, which lowers your squad size top 3. I thought for sure that it'd lower enemy pod count/number, but it's the standard fare - this one is gonna be tough.

Right. How many good tactical turn-based strategy games can you name that have a solid strategy layer (WITH TIME PRESSURE!) and a genuine high difficulty? Legendary is /tough/ - probably harder than Superhuman in UFO and I played the SHIT out of UFO. No, they're not like UFO/TFTD. They're more like a modern spin-off board game. But that board game is pretty damn good.

And absolutely agreed on the pods. You could probably make it so that every 'pod' is 1 person, but every 'pod' is drawn by sound. That way you could still have ye olde "Hunt the last lobsterman hiding in a closet!" feeling.

By the way, are you looking forward to XCOM 3? I think a Lovecraftian horror vibe would work really well with the series. TFTD is near and dear to my heart and I wouldn't mind playing the boardgame version of it.

Tentaculats!!! The horror, the horror...

Are there any stats concerning Ironman success rate? I'd be really curious to see how it varies according to total play time, difficulty, LW2 or not.

WotC on Legend is pretty difficult, it'd be really cool to see how much time on average a player needs to complete a Legend Ironman run (how many restarts converted into total playtime).

oasis789 Thanks for the mod links, that Gotcha Again! stuff is pure gold.

 

[ArchAngel]

Right. How many good tactical turn-based strategy games can you name that have a solid strategy layer (WITH TIME PRESSURE!) and a genuine high difficulty? Legendary is /tough/ - probably harder than Superhuman in UFO and I played the SHIT out of UFO. No, they're not like UFO/TFTD. They're more like a modern spin-off board game. But that board game is pretty damn good.

And absolutely agreed on the pods. You could probably make it so that every 'pod' is 1 person, but every 'pod' is drawn by sound. That way you could still have ye olde "Hunt the last lobsterman hiding in a closet!" feeling.

By the way, are you looking forward to XCOM 3? I think a Lovecraftian horror vibe would work really well with the series. TFTD is near and dear to my heart and I wouldn't mind playing the boardgame version of it.

Tentaculats!!! The horror, the horror...

There are so many (hopefully) good Xcom like games coming out in next few years hopefully never need another Firaxis's abortion.

 

[Silva]

Bro, you're delusional. There wasn't a single good xcom-like game since the originals, until we got the Firaxis "abortions". What make you think now it will happen?

And while the originals have aspects that are still better than the NuComs, I'm pretty happy with the later, and find them great games by themselves. Clearly better than any clones that appeared in this interlude.

 

[Freddie]

Did Veteran run at first, it was okay but I couldn't shake the feeling that Chosen and this DLC overall is sort of what previous Alien Hunters DLC was supposed to be. So I'm glad that I paid less than € 40 for this. Firaxis style not to release patches but paid DLC which improvements you can't get but getting the DLC because of reasons is also really low, but my will was weak, but I digress.

My run on veteran was ok. Alien Hunters DLC didn't worked even I had it selected in campaign start options, didn't miss them that much. New classes give something new to do, resistance orders bring some way to actually do something and interact with the world in a way commander should and I felt this was a huge improvement. Chosen can cause havoc early on but can be pacified pretty fast. I think I was still on mag weapons when I dealt with the first and second chosen. End game hasn't improved that much, though Spectres are interesting addition. Game is sort of easy to win on economic level pretty fast. I kept making new contacts both via Resistance Ring and by scanning and was pretty soon swimming in supplies.

I'm doing new run now on Commander and has things changed! I did some unusual choices regarding build order on Avenger. I aimed for shorter end game but did this turned out to be costly. Chosen also managed to do some sabotage, I'm still low on supplies and at this stage mag weapons just don't cut it any more on some missions. I can't even compensate with special ammo because I don't have enough supplies to make even those. I get plasma weapons soon enough though.

From my experience I recommend playing on Veteran first if you have tight time budget but want to have some thinking and fun. Commander is for more experienced and despite AI still doing mistakes, it can actually challenge if you mess things up. Tactical missions may take more time to complete and pod mechanism adds to it. For example in one mission when I reached the objective via stealth it somehow activated not one but two pods and of course enemy reinforcements came in on same turn. I already had remains of couple of pods to deal with on map.

It still isn't and won't be UFO / TFTD but it's okay.

 

[Jasede]

It's a completely different game on Legendary.

Also, JESUS CHRIST is Beaglerush good, even when rusty. I hate his mug and his voice but the man is a NuXCOM GOD. He can somehow manage to do the exact right moves even when attacked by 12 aliens.