Xenich's War for Rules and Realism in D&D

[Xenich]

We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders

Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons?

The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
Do I really have to explain this?

Not at all. You are familiar with logical argument as it concerns internal and external evaluations right?

When you evaluate a fantasy world, you do so from an "internal" evaluation of the logic of the world. Each element within the world must be properly explained to logically fit within it. The DM guide does this by taking real principals and then applying them to the game world and where there is conflict, creating supplemental rules to adapt and connect what we know in reality to a believable means within the fantasy world.

 

[mutonizer]

The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
Do I really have to explain this?

They are perfectly coherent in a world where matter and life manipulation is mastered by various beings. You just need realism/coherence within the setting really (though it's not always achieved). Plus he's talking mechanics, not settings. As in, the stat block and how they affect the world around them, not the actual creatures themselves.
I mean, most of these weird beings were most likely created by various gods, demi gods, and whatever. Dwarves are a complete fabrication in FR and you don't have a problem with that so why problems with "horse spiders"?

edit:
Reall you're just goofed by the old school graphics, which probably were a bit tongue in cheek. But without that mental picture forced onto you, I'm pretty sure a good GM can freak you the fuck out with one of these in a game by describing it differently or make them sound really cool.

 

[Lhynn]

Again, the more you talk about this, the more you act like you never GM'd an AD&D game or cracked open an old DM guide. The players hand guides do not go into these details. In fact, they really aren't supposed to know that stuff, it is for the DM to rule on the physics and interactions within the world.

Been at it for over 15 years brother, but sure, whatever.

This is what bothers me about you folks. You mock us for our arguments of physics and realism within the fantasy world and as I said

What arguments? the book doesnt mention them, you are introducing your own rules into the system and calling it "realistic" because they are there. Forgetting that it was you that homebrewed them you retarded asshole. They are nowhere to be found on the rule book.

you people are responsible for sucking all the intellect out of games in order to cater to "but I want it!" emotional players who love sitting around role playing jerking off with each other. You don't get it, because you are for all honest and intent purposes... a poser.

So now PnP is a game about intellectuals exchanging ideas about realism?
Jesus fucking christ, you are so fucking stupid i still wonder how natural selection could fail so hard in taking care of you. Guess thats the society weve built.

 

[Immortal]

Not a gamer, just some poser who loves to play dress up and LARP sex with their homosexual buddies. Good job!

Why would I need to LARP sex with my homosexual buddies? They're sluts man.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..
and by beauty I mean Ejaculate.. and by Beholder I mean Prime Junta dressed in drag.

 

[Prime Junta]

Not a gamer, just some poser who loves to play dress up and LARP sex with their homosexual buddies. Good job!

Why would I need to LARP sex with my homosexual buddies? They're sluts man.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..
and by beauty I mean Ejaculate.. and by Beholder I mean Prime Junta dressed in drag.

See, this is why I don't get the rage in this thread. The Codex loves trannies!

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Hate Thread morphs into benign spiderhorse and duckmonkey topic, Beamdog must be doing something right.

 

[Immortal]

We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders

Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons?

The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
Do I really have to explain this?

Not at all. You are familiar with logical argument as it concerns internal and external evaluations right?

When you evaluate a fantasy world, you do so from an "internal" evaluation of the logic of the world. Each element within the world must be properly explained to logically fit within it. The DM guide does this by taking real principals and then applying them to the game world and where there is conflict, creating supplemental rules to adapt and connect what we know in reality to a believable means within the fantasy world.

I'm familiar with pedantic DM's that take 12 years to explain / roll out things that nobody cares about while the players have all starved to death or gone home.

 

[Delterius]

"Hey I wonder what people are discussing, it could be good for the review."

 

[Mustawd]

The Codex loves trannies!

I've been saying this for like 92 pages. We're the most trans friendly gaming-centric site on the internet. Much better than those cisgender pigs at RPGWatch.com.

 

[Xenich]

Again, the more you talk about this, the more you act like you never GM'd an AD&D game or cracked open an old DM guide. The players hand guides do not go into these details. In fact, they really aren't supposed to know that stuff, it is for the DM to rule on the physics and interactions within the world.

Been at it for over 15 years brother, but sure, whatever.

15 whole years? Really? Well.. you surely are a veteran to AD&D then. I mean, you weren't even playing the game when it was TSR. Seriously, you have no experience with the bulk of the years that made D&D actual D&D. Your "experience" is that of the destruction and cannibalizing, the dumbing down and placating to the idiocy of mainstream. How old are you? From the sounds of it you weren't even born during the Gygax/Arneson battles and do you even know who they were?

LOL

 

[Murk]

I love logistics and dragons as much if not more than the next grogtard but pretending D&D is "realistic" is outright silly. It's a series of relatively fleshed out rules that allow you to do a bunch of silly stuff in what is otherwise magical tea party.

peasant rail gun, perpetual motion machines with two portals, etc.

 

[Reinhardt]

The Codex loves trannies!

We love our trannies good wtitten.

 

[Prime Junta]

The Codex loves trannies!

We love our trannies good wtitten.

I can tell.

 

[Excidium II]

Again, the more you talk about this, the more you act like you never GM'd an AD&D game or cracked open an old DM guide. The players hand guides do not go into these details. In fact, they really aren't supposed to know that stuff, it is for the DM to rule on the physics and interactions within the world.

Been at it for over 15 years brother, but sure, whatever.

15 whole years? Really? Well.. you surely are a veteran to AD&D then. I mean, you weren't even playing the game when it was TSR. Seriously, you have no experience with the bulk of the years that made D&D actual D&D. Your "experience" is that of the destruction and cannibalizing, the dumbing down and placating to the idiocy of mainstream. How old are you? From the sounds of it you weren't even born during the Gygax/Arneson battles and do you even know who they were?

LOL

it's not like the books disappeared. You can still play them today.

 

[Mustawd]

Xenich reminds me of an angrier version of Telengard.

Just two old crusty gygax-era grognards fighting the good fight.

 

[Excidium II]

I love logistics and dragons as much if not more than the next grogtard but pretending D&D is "realistic" is outright silly. It's a series of relatively fleshed out rules that allow you to do a bunch of silly stuff in what is otherwise magical tea party.

peasant rail gun, perpetual motion machines with two portals, etc.

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

 

[Xenich]

We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders

Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons?

The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
Do I really have to explain this?

Not at all. You are familiar with logical argument as it concerns internal and external evaluations right?

When you evaluate a fantasy world, you do so from an "internal" evaluation of the logic of the world. Each element within the world must be properly explained to logically fit within it. The DM guide does this by taking real principals and then applying them to the game world and where there is conflict, creating supplemental rules to adapt and connect what we know in reality to a believable means within the fantasy world.

I'm familiar with pedantic DM's that take 12 years to explain / roll out things that nobody cares about while the players have all starved to death or gone home.

What? Ok, sounds like I went way over your knowledge level of the issue as you have seemed to revert to "WoW player" ADD as you go off about boredom.

 

[Xenich]

I love logistics and dragons as much if not more than the next grogtard but pretending D&D is "realistic" is outright silly. It's a series of relatively fleshed out rules that allow you to do a bunch of silly stuff in what is otherwise magical tea party.

peasant rail gun, perpetual motion machines with two portals, etc.

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

Yep, it really is not that difficult of a concept, I am not sure why they are struggling with it.

 

[Lhynn]

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

What happens when rules go completely against realism or logic? and it happens often, because no one wants to deal with that crap when playing D&D.

15 whole years? Really? Well.. you surely are a veteran to AD&D then. I mean, you weren't even playing the game when it was TSR. Seriously, you have no experience with the bulk of the years that made D&D actual D&D. Your "experience" is that of the destruction and cannibalizing, the dumbing down and placating to the idiocy of mainstream. How old are you? From the sounds of it you weren't even born during the Gygax/Arneson battles and do you even know who they were?

Kinda telling that you cant make a decent argument to save your life, so you dont even try.

 

[Murk]

I love logistics and dragons as much if not more than the next grogtard but pretending D&D is "realistic" is outright silly. It's a series of relatively fleshed out rules that allow you to do a bunch of silly stuff in what is otherwise magical tea party.

peasant rail gun, perpetual motion machines with two portals, etc.

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

Sure, but once you introduce time travel + space travel + psychic powers + creation of material from nothing, transmutation, and all kinds of other silly stuff like how people take turns acting in 6 second increments that might span IRL hours, the idea of "realism" becomes a asterisk-laden technical paragraph that mostly summarizes to "has some rules that it follows with relative internal-consistency" which is fine for me.

 

[Excidium II]

I love logistics and dragons as much if not more than the next grogtard but pretending D&D is "realistic" is outright silly. It's a series of relatively fleshed out rules that allow you to do a bunch of silly stuff in what is otherwise magical tea party.

peasant rail gun, perpetual motion machines with two portals, etc.

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

Sure, but once you introduce time travel + space travel + psychic powers + creation of material from nothing, transmutation, and all kinds of other silly stuff like how people take turns acting in 6 second increments that might span IRL hours, the idea of "realism" becomes a asterisk-laden technical paragraph that mostly summarizes to "has some rules that it follows with relative internal-consistency" which is fine for me.

Of course the existance of magic shakes things a bit. But even magic is still subject to physics when it creates physical phenomena. Just look at how AD&D Fireball spell works for example.

Players knowledgeable about physics could even do more with spells.

Also AD&D turns are 1 minute long.

 

[Excidium II]

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

What happens when rules go completely against realism or logic? and it happens often, because no one wants to deal with that crap when playing D&D.

Does it happen that often? A bit of handwaving for the sake of abstraction isn't a sacrife of realism, but of simulation.

 

[Xenich]

Think of things like this...

If you cast lighting bolt in water, what does it do?

You can go two routes...

1) ignore all realism in the world and explain everything away with the trump card "its magic!". This route eventually ends in systems that are shallow and intellectually void in play. *Pew Pew*

2) You attempt to connect the real world with the fantasy world creating depth and believable explanations to the fantasy world there by giving strategy and consequence to play.

so in example:

1) Mage casts the bolt and it shoots off as a bolt underwater off to hit its target.

2) Mage casts bolt, but because of the principals of physics, how electricity reacts in water... the entire party is electrocuted as the spell spreads out like a ball from its origin.


Example 1 is a game for idiots... you know... because after they beat the evil monster, they will all go to a tavern and role play for hours.

Example 2 has multiple play elements, first... the Mage has to pass an intelligence/arcane check to recognize if this danger and if he fails, and he does it, well.. shit hits the fan.

It also adds some interesting adaptions to spell use. For instance, what if the caster has an immunity to electricity or magic, or a spell of such on. The bolt spell now becomes a point blank AoE spell that changed all based on the use of realism (physics) in the world.

 

[Murk]

Of course the existance of magic shakes things a bit. But even magic is still subject to physics when it creates physical phenomena. Just look at how AD&D Fireball spell works for example.

Players knowledgeable about physics could even do more with spells.

Yes. I do not disagree with this, but "realism" is a heavy statement in the land of fairies and dragons and magic.

Also AD&D turns are 1 minute long.

Sure, though I didn't know the topic was only on 2.x. I guess Xenich specifically brought up AD&D so that was ma bad.

 

[Xenich]

Well you are supposed to assume things that have correlation in the real world are subject to the same laws, so you can use physics and such to create arguments.

What happens when rules go completely against realism or logic? and it happens often, because no one wants to deal with that crap when playing D&D.

15 whole years? Really? Well.. you surely are a veteran to AD&D then. I mean, you weren't even playing the game when it was TSR. Seriously, you have no experience with the bulk of the years that made D&D actual D&D. Your "experience" is that of the destruction and cannibalizing, the dumbing down and placating to the idiocy of mainstream. How old are you? From the sounds of it you weren't even born during the Gygax/Arneson battles and do you even know who they were?

Kinda telling that you cant make a decent argument to save your life, so you dont even try.

Actually, it is me refusing to answer to your other two questions which are obviously ignorant of the history of the game. I said AD&D, I mentioned first edition DM manual and even hinted at the terminal velocity part. You acted like none of this existed which means you were likely looking at some recent edition GM guide built for the intellectually lazy and furies. So, being that you are just a kid and WAY out of your league this topic, I mocked you and dismissed you like the ignorant kid you are.