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Your opinion on some missing mechanic (class and stats) in cyberpunk 2077

Keppo

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You appear to be able to talk your way through a lot of tense situations. There are engineering and hacking skill checks. Is speech also a skill check? Patrick Mills: We don't want to gate speech behind particular classes or anything like that. We want that to be about the story and about your choices in the story.



https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-gameplay-and-interviewed-cd-projekt-about-it

"Cool" and "Street Cred" could have some impact on dialogues.
 

Reapa

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Patrick Mills: We don't want to gate speech behind particular classes or anything like that. We want that to be about the story and about your choices in the story.
This is just the kind of crap publishers often do to make their laziness seem like a good thing. It probably works well on retards who can't read the obvious statement behind the bullshit: the game will not react to your class/skills/attributes choices in dialogues. What the fuck does the second sentence even mean? It's completely fucking stupid. It doesn't say anything. It only sounds like something nice. let's dissect that shit a bit:

We want that=( I must assume he's talking about dialogues because that was what he was talking about just now) to be about the story
We want dialogues to be about the story... what??? this is not just some minor mistake. it's not a poor choice of words. this is the work of a moron. of someone who doesn't think before he says something and just likes to hear himself talk.

Imagine somebody describing a movie he just saw saying:
I liked the dialogues in the movie. They were about the story.
Come again?!?
The dialogues! They were about the story! I liked that!
What the fuck did you just smoke? O.O

...and about your choices in the story. which translates for me to: we don't want you to roleplay a character making choices. we want you to make choices for your character and be able to make the exact same choices for whatever fucking kind of character you are playing because it's just a lot easier for us to make it that way. we're still gonna call it an rpg because we can.
 
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InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Patrick Mills: We don't want to gate speech behind particular classes or anything like that. We want that to be about the story and about your choices in the story.
This is just the kind of crap publishers often do to make their laziness seem like a good thing. It probably works well on retards who can't read the obvious statement behind the bullshit: the game will not react to your class/skills/attributes choices in dialogues. What the fuck does the second sentence even mean? It's completely fucking stupid. It doesn't say anything. It only sounds like something nice. let's dissect that shit a bit:

We want that=( I must assume he's talking about dialogues because that was what he was talking about just now) to be about the story
We want dialogues to be about the story... what??? this is not just some minor mistake. it's not a poor choice of words. this is the work of a moron. of someone who doesn't think before he says something and just likes to hear himself talk.

Imagine somebody describing a movie he just saw saying:
I liked the dialogues in the movie. They were about the story.
Come again?!?
The dialogues! They were about the story! I liked that!
What the fuck did you just smoke? O.O

...and about your choices in the story. which translates for me to: we don't want you to roleplay a character making choices. we want you to make choices for your character and be able to make the exact same choices for whatever fucking kind of character you are playing because it's just a lot easier for us to make it that way. we're still gonna call it an rpg because we can.


Thats a strawman and you know it.

What he said probably means that dialogue will be about choices, not choices limited by status.

EDIT: as I said above, think TW3. The dialogue choices is available regardless. CnC are still there. But there is no "have Speech at 5 to unlock this choice."
 

Frozen

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Only a fool expected this to have high quality addictive gameplay.
What I did expect is for it to look great-blade runner feel, realistic buildings not Fallout derpy toy look, great animations, detailed faces, quality voice acting and (somewhat) interesting story, great art design not some random GTA clone with gadgets, particle effects, etc. None of it seems present.
For a AAA storyfag game it should be an eye candy with lots of effort and $$$$ put into production.
Last AC looks better, Witcher 3 looks better, Arkham games look better. No excuses.
 
Joined
May 4, 2017
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Even if it would have the great quality you're looking for, they would probably downgrade it anyway when it comes out, and who knows if they won't do it anyway even with the current graphic.

It already happened with Tw3, it may happen again. But who cares about a game that is going to be a visual novel a la witcherino 3
 

Frozen

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Even if it would have the great quality you're looking for, they would probably downgrade it anyway when it comes out, and who knows if they won't do it anyway even with the current graphic.

It already happened with Tw3, it may happen again. But who cares about a game that is going to be a visual novel a la witcherino 3

It still looked great even with downgrade and even today 3y old game of the same company looks better than their new allegedly "next gen" title. How embracing is that.
Its either Potato government pull the plug on funding or they were too ambitious in game scope and production quality was diminished.
They should also know better where their bread and butter is- if they want to make FPS with some story ok, but its not what their target audience wants.

Also wtf is it with not being able to make buildings look realistic? It should be easier than trees&vegetation but this city from trailer looks like some construction set for kids up to 5yo from Walmart.
 

DalekFlay

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What I did expect is for it to look great-blade runner feel

This is what all you whiny fucks want, but cyberpunk does not demand Blade Runner aesthetic. Also wait for the night footage anyway, Jesus. The trailer is grim as shit, it's just also colorful and daytime.
 
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
114
Patrick Mills: We don't want to gate speech behind particular classes or anything like that. We want that to be about the story and about your choices in the story.
This is just the kind of crap publishers often do to make their laziness seem like a good thing. It probably works well on retards who can't read the obvious statement behind the bullshit: the game will not react to your class/skills/attributes choices in dialogues. What the fuck does the second sentence even mean? It's completely fucking stupid. It doesn't say anything. It only sounds like something nice. let's dissect that shit a bit:

We want that=( I must assume he's talking about dialogues because that was what he was talking about just now) to be about the story
We want dialogues to be about the story... what??? this is not just some minor mistake. it's not a poor choice of words. this is the work of a moron. of someone who doesn't think before he says something and just likes to hear himself talk.

Imagine somebody describing a movie he just saw saying:
I liked the dialogues in the movie. They were about the story.
Come again?!?
The dialogues! They were about the story! I liked that!
What the fuck did you just smoke? O.O

...and about your choices in the story. which translates for me to: we don't want you to roleplay a character making choices. we want you to make choices for your character and be able to make the exact same choices for whatever fucking kind of character you are playing because it's just a lot easier for us to make it that way. we're still gonna call it an rpg because we can.
What is this nonsense?

If there's a lack of skill checks in dialogue, as this quote seems to be saying, that's a letdown, but he's clearly saying he wants your in the moment reactions to define how you affect the story than your skill choices.

EDIT: Although, I am pretty curious as to how cyberware will be handled in the absence of empathy.
 

Zer0wing

Cipher
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Mar 22, 2017
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2,607
The experience of playing cop vs mercenaries are possibly diametrically opposed that for each quest you would need at least need 2 version and probably dozens of quest exclusives to one or the other classes.
The thing with diametrically opposed quests is that it's not really that hard if you think about it for a second more. Just flip the sides player character works for and there ya go. Also, there's no need to make 9 different exclusive quest packs to each class, where did you get that?
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
The experience of playing cop vs mercenaries are possibly diametrically opposed that for each quest you would need at least need 2 version and probably dozens of quest exclusives to one or the other classes.
The thing with diametrically opposed quests is that it's not really that hard if you think about it for a second more. Just flip the sides player character works for and there ya go. Also, there's no need to make 9 different exclusive quest packs to each class, where did you get that?

Would a Media, Rokcer, or those less shooty-shooty class play the same vs Mercenary vs Police?

And are you dumb? Say a quest has Cop and Mercenaries side. If you are on one side, the other side actions will done on lack of involvement of the player, which means something different would happen. When you are playing Mercenaries you are given objective to, say, open a locked door. You will have 3 methods as per abilities thats present in the game in the current form. Each ideally would have a variable challenge: 1. direct shootout, and thus one encounter design. 2. you hack shit. Where? Who will be guarding the point of interest of hacking? etc2, same with Techie.

Now when you play as a cop, what events would transpire? As defender, your action is probably more passive/reactionary in nature. Say the enemy Mercenaries opt to do 2 of the 3 method. How will they do it? Will they do a shoot out as distraction for the Techies or Netrunner to do other shit? Or will the Mercenaries approach be more subtle? Whats the player agency in all of this? Will they be given a choice to respond to different threat? Could you do legwork to find what the Mercenaries plan beforehand? If so, the legwork encounter would be absent when you are playing Mercenaries. Or maybe the if you play the Mercenaries you would be able to do your own legwork to find the defense system of the Police.

See? And this is just 2 sides based on 3 skills. I'd rather have fewer fleshed out quest rather than, say, Nu Deus Ex where everything played out more or less the same regardless or approach.
 

Zer0wing

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Would a Media, Rokcer, or those less shooty-shooty class play the same vs Mercenary vs Police?
These two are not opposite in any way. Uhm, have you ever opened the sourcebook? Rockers do still need to invest into combat, to fend off whoever they fight using rock music or even too adoring fans. Medias work in a dangerous environment uncovering some dark shit corporations or goverment would not want to get into public and mass media, report about proxy wars in africa'n'shit or contaminations of entire city blocks by megacorporations to sell more vaccine. Such kind of shit that won't get unnoticed. That's where creative writers and designers are needed the most and where CDPR would shine yet they decided to not to. Also there's no 'Mercenary' and 'Police' classes in original PnP, cops and solos have wider spectrum of shit to do in conditions far diverse than your gamedesign genius thinks. That's besides the point that there are no classes per se, there are just different unique skills to abuse, designers are free to make any quests they can with different outcomes.
And are you dumb?
Yes dumb but not me, that's for sure. Cops could use the same skills to lock doors and set up tech for defense and yes, player character as a cop could be sent for scouting as well as solo or do the same or similar objectives as solos but for different people.
I'd rather have fewer fleshed out quest rather than, say, Nu Deus Ex where everything played out more or less the same regardless or approach.
At least we agree here, I sure do want quests to cover as much as possible and put unique skills to use.
 

InD_ImaginE

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These two are not opposite in any way. Uhm, have you ever opened the sourcebook? Rockers do still need to invest into combat, to fend off whoever they fight using rock music or even too adoring fans. Medias work in a dangerous environment uncovering some dark shit corporations or goverment would not want to get into public and mass media, report about proxy wars in africa'n'shit or contaminations of entire city blocks by megacorporations to sell more vaccine. Such kind of shit that won't get unnoticed. That's where creative writers and designers are needed the most and where CDPR would shine yet they decided to not to. Also there's no 'Mercenary' and 'Police' classes in original PnP, cops and solos have wider spectrum of shit to do in conditions far diverse than your gamedesign genius thinks. That's besides the point that there are no classes per se, there are just different unique skills to abuse, designers are free to make any quests they can with different outcomes.

The things is, even though combat is there, those are unique quest no? The scenario or quest involving them are not usual Solo or Cop one. Which I mentioned above, means either generic quests or very short playthrough. Ideally of course you have both depth and length, but this is not your evening PnP session with your friends.

Cops could use the same skills to lock doors and set up tech for defense and yes, player character as a cop could be sent for scouting as well as solo or do the same or similar objectives as solos but for different people.
Yes, the skill is the same. Thing is this is not, once again, PnP or CYOA where you just narates or click a button with status on your Microsoft Excel to determine whether you pass the check or not.

Being opposed means that you require two scenarios for each quest, say if we limit our discussion here to Solo vs Cop. My example above basically gives an example of that. The Scenario where player is part of attacking agent and where the player defends an objective diverges because the lack of player character on the other side. In the scenario where the player attacks, the player decides the approach, and GM, or in this case CDPR, creates the basic premise and response to said players choice. In the case where he defends, the GM/CDPR creates the basic premise, creates the scenario of the attack. Then the player choose how to response to the attack and the GM/CDPR, creates response to said player choice on how to solve the problem.

The idea of "just create it :lol: it is as easy as flipping a pancake " is easy until you realize this is AAA action RPG-lite game which means for that one quest involving Cop vs Solo scenario the company needs to create 2 separate scenarios, including encounter and what animations and voiceworks required as well.

Unless what you meant was just do the exact same quest with different NPC giving different justification on why you should do X or something, which is shit.
 

Zer0wing

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The things is, even though combat is there, those are unique quest no? The scenario or quest involving them are not usual Solo or Cop one. Which I mentioned above, means either generic quests or very short playthrough. Ideally of course you have both depth and length, but this is not your evening PnP session with your friends.
I don't think open world games needs lengthy script either, going wider with each of nine stories adding to the whole picture for this particular game at the cost of one walkthrough being 20-40 hours as opposed to Twitcher 3's 50-80 hours, the open world itself is enough busy work to chug through. Besides, CDPR can vomit twice as wide as dragon age: origins game.
The idea of "just create it :lol: it is as easy as flipping a pancake " is easy until you realize this is AAA action RPG-lite game which means for that one quest involving Cop vs Solo scenario the company needs to create 2 separate scenarios, including encounter and what animations and voiceworks required as well.
Unless what you meant was just do the exact same quest with different NPC giving different justification on why you should do X or something, which is shit.
It's inevitable shit since it's AAA RPG-lite that doesn't lock dialog options behind skillchecks.:shittydog:
Although you get way too upset about it. The really unique, not DeusEx-VtMB-FNV unique, should be reserved for main quest and a select number of really big and important side quests at most. In reality I only remember AoD going wide on story.

Throwing in some options for unique skills is still viable gamedesign choice, I guess.:shittydog:
Yes, the skill is the same. Thing is this is not, once again, PnP or CYOA where you just narates or click a button with status on your Microsoft Excel to determine whether you pass the check or not.
Worked for RPG-lites like New Vegas.:P
 

Mebrilia the Viera Queen

Guest
The things is, even though combat is there, those are unique quest no? The scenario or quest involving them are not usual Solo or Cop one. Which I mentioned above, means either generic quests or very short playthrough. Ideally of course you have both depth and length, but this is not your evening PnP session with your friends.
I don't think open world games needs lengthy script either, going wider with each of nine stories adding to the whole picture for this particular game at the cost of one walkthrough being 20-40 hours as opposed to Twitcher 3's 50-80 hours, the open world itself is enough busy work to chug through. Besides, CDPR can vomit twice as wide as dragon age: origins game.
The idea of "just create it :lol: it is as easy as flipping a pancake " is easy until you realize this is AAA action RPG-lite game which means for that one quest involving Cop vs Solo scenario the company needs to create 2 separate scenarios, including encounter and what animations and voiceworks required as well.
Unless what you meant was just do the exact same quest with different NPC giving different justification on why you should do X or something, which is shit.
It's inevitable shit since it's AAA RPG-lite that doesn't lock dialog options behind skillchecks.:shittydog:
Although you get way too upset about it. The really unique, not DeusEx-VtMB-FNV unique, should be reserved for main quest and a select number of really big and important side quests at most. In reality I only remember AoD going wide on story.

Throwing in some options for unique skills is still viable gamedesign choice, I guess.:shittydog:
Yes, the skill is the same. Thing is this is not, once again, PnP or CYOA where you just narates or click a button with status on your Microsoft Excel to determine whether you pass the check or not.
Worked for RPG-lites like New Vegas.:P

If you consider New Vegas lite roleplay then Cyberpunk 2077 will not even be a rpg.
While i disagree New Vegas was lite roleplay i could of course agree Cyberpunk 2077 will not be an rpg rather a fps with a story.
 

HarveyBirdman

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I dont want to kill your hype guys, but there are some major issue in role playing aspect other than voiced protagonist.
As the title said, apprantly cyberpunk 2077 will have less stats than what we get in CP2020 PnP RPG. There will be no Attractiveness, Body type, Movement Allowance, Luck, and hell even no Empathy stat! You know why especially the last stat is important, its basically deal with the core issue of the setting that is cyberpsychosis. It also deal with persuasive based skill, in essence its a version of charisma stat.

Move to the class, apparantly you could only play or gain three skill from each class (solo, netrunner, techie). Again i dont understand if we get a RPG with total customization of character and background yet why they scrap the other class. Especially with voiced protagonist, i have suspicion that character customization and roleplaying in this game will not be that open.
I really, really HATE the voiced protag.
Worked great in the Witcher. You're playing Geralt.
Here, it's a terrible mistake. More on that later.

As to stats, more is always better so long as they are useful or can at least legitimately help roleplaying. I'm normally not a fan of stats that take the place of my own thoughts.
For example, I'm perfectly happy to have a Charisma stat, because I may think I want to say something a certain way, but the delivery of that thought is dependent on Charisma and a Speech skill. This makes sense.
Things get a bit iffier when you start moving towards speech checks based on knowledge derived from stats, like an Intelligence stat. It can work very well, or it can work very poorly. So in other words, I'm all for good implementation, but don't give me options to say something and fail VS saying the same thing and succeeding purely based on a non-speech related stat.

Thus we get to empathy. Because of its role in cyberpunk, I think it's absolutely necessary. Since we as the players aren't actually getting cybernetic implants, I can't think of any way to replicate the loss of empathy outside of a pure LARP. And for the record, I think LARPing has its place, but it functionally doesn't fit here at all.

Streamlining all these stats + the emphasis on voiced dialogue makes me think they're focusing the pen and paper part of roleplaying almost entirely on combat, while leaving the decision-making levels part of roleplaying outside the class system entirely. This choice largely borrows from the Witcher games (axii was usually an afterthought for dialogue). In other words, CDPR found a formula that people liked in the past, so they're going to copy and paste it. This is the problem (and benefit) of game studios in general -- they find formulas they like. Sometimes it results in trimming shit and improvement in some areas, and sometimes it results in total lack of willingness to look at things from a new perspective. Stagnation is the result in the longrun.

I expect the action roleplaying elements of this game will be excellent. I bet you'll be able to feel like a very different kind of combatant by the endgames of different playthroughs if you want to.

Conversely, the dialogue roleplaying elements will be hit or miss. C&C seems like it will be present in droves, and we'll be happy with it. The issue comes from how we reach those consequences when dialogue is front and center. On one level, I really do enjoy being able to say what I would want to say -- i.e. LARP the dialogue -- and call it a day. In a sense, a LARPing dialogue system is built into the game by the player itself, and not through a spreadsheet. All good RPGs have this to an extent via choosing what you're going to say. As you edge closer to a pure LARPing dialogue system, you start to look more like Morrowind (personality and speech affect prices and persuasion, while everything else is purely LARPed). But if CDPR is going to choose this Morrowindish general route, then they already royally fucked it up by having a voiced protag. You can't LARP as a dude who doesn't speak the way you want him to speak.

So what we have is a game with conflicting visions of dialogue -- an understanding that the player can LARP the dialogue vis a vis delivering that dialogue in a way that completely destroys any possibility of LARPing. The problem is the direct result of CDPR getting too comfortable with the success it had with the Witcher's dialogue, and therefore not being able to see the fundamental merits and demerits of that kind of a system and how it could transfer over to Cyberpunk.

I dub Cyberpunk 2077 cautiously incline, but with the possibility of sharp and heart-wrenching decline.
 
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Yosharian

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Mainstream console-tards can't deal with a silent protagonist. They need a voiced protag with its own personality, to fill the gaping void where the console-tard's personality should be
 

Sykar

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Can't expect brain dead mouth breathers to use their own imagination. That might strain that poor brain cell which is desperate to just keep them alive.
That being said I am a sucker for cyberpunk and will probably :d1p:
I already feel like a degenerate.

:negative:
 

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