Review Zero Punctuation: The Escapist still hates The Witcher

[Bradylama]

Political correctness FTW!

The objectification of women in The Witcher bugged me a little, but at least they're real characters unlike the treatment ladies got in Gothic 3. I think the only woman with a speaking role was also a belly dancer.

 

[Schauman]

The afterfall of comments is what truly makes that ZP worthy for the lulz. God, feels like stumbling to a vile nest of Slaanesh zealots brown nosing eachother.
Atleast my fears of technological singularity went down by ten notches, there will always be a plentiful supply of fanboys to flood the resources of any ZAX or Skynet.

Pufferfish, lulz!

 

[Section8]

Have you read the comments thread?

I had a peek yesterday expecting to get some lulz from indignant Polish nationalists, but what I saw was terrifying.

"lol dongs. u r teh best." - pretty much paraphrases 90% of the comments. Poor Yahtzee - he's become Andy Millman.

 

[Annonchinil]

There are many "monster contract" quests, but it's pretty natural, considering that Geralt is a witcher, a professional monster slayer.

I would agree with that had the monster hunts had been interesting and not generic, so I think that excuse for shitty quest design is lame, kind of like being a delivery boy. What I don't understand is why every other game on the Codex gets its failures pointed out but everytime someone mentions something about the Witcher it gets a free pass?

In the review, yeah the complexity bit was stupid but I found mostly everything else he stated about the game to be accurate. Take the combat; mix of stats and action, yet the strategy element is nowhere as deep as a lot of the games and the one click action is certainly not Ninja Gaiden level, oh and up to the point that I am at the boss battles suck as do the enemies, wich seem to be only capable of running straight at you.

Also the Choice and Consequences in the game are limited to some lame scripted scenes, so far multiple choices for the completion of quests are non-existant, every quest is beat in a linear fashion. Not only that but the dialogue is either bad or confusing and pepperd with out of place slang and modern terms. And no, I don't care how good it is in the Russian version.

There are many other things I don't like with the game (like the annoying running chores, not doing quests feel) and even if it does get better after the 1st Act/Chapter other games are competing with my time. I just downloaded Deus Ex and The Longest Journey of Steam, I would rather play those.

 

[Lurkar]

His choice in music this time around was absolutely horrendous.

That said, I take a special and sick pleasure in knowing that he probably despises his new fan base.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

That said, I take a special and sick pleasure in knowing that he probably despises his new fan base.

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/

• I have a new video out, like that even needs saying anymore. The Witcher this time. Also there's a little self-indulgency in there because I've been doing reviews for months and need to do something new to keep my interest in the world alive.
  
  I like playing Team Fortress 2. It's fun. And if you hang around a server that gets a decent low ping in eastern Australia, there's a chance I may some day join a server that you are on. Should that happen, remember to follow these guidelines:
  
  - Always interrogate me the moment I have one foot in the door as to whether I'm 'the real Yahtzee' or not. Insist I go on voice chat to prove my identity while the enemy busily penetrate our defenses. This will swiftly endear you to me.
  
  - Once my identity is confirmed to your satisfaction, or not, spend the entire game quoting myself at me in all caps in both text and voice chat. It's very gratifying to be reminded that my reviews are very popular and that some of my lines have entered meme territory, and being constantly reminded of this will help my confidence and improve our chances of winning.
  
  - Don't be fooled by my stony silence up to this point - secretly, I'm probably on the verge of inviting you to my next birthday party. Ensure that this happens by adding me to your friends list and trying to open Steam chat with me while I'm in the middle of something important. Obviously since I have total misanthropic hatred for 99% of my fellow man, it's important that I communicate with as many of them as possible to remind myself of why.
  
  - Relish verbally every single time you kill me, because obviously being a gaming industry professional I am some kind of higher order of being, and besting me in a game of skill is a sure sign that you have a valid claim to all the thrones of Europe.
  
  - Remember to get catty when I unexpectedly log off. I'm probably just overwhelmed to the point of tears by the wonderful friends I have made.

Such are the horrors of fame.

 

[Aegeri]

Personally, I found the first few hours of the Witcher rather poorly thought out and not very interesting either. Once the game starts to sort itself out and get into a good rhythm it's truly excellent.

It's well known though that he doesn't like RPGs at all and to be honest, I don't know why he bothers because most RPGs he reviews are going to rely on mechanics he just plain doesn't like. It's like getting a job as a lifeguard when you are afraid of water.

 

[Naked Ninja]

My word but some of you guys take things way,way,way too seriously. Have you all never watched a rip-off comedian?

Agh never mind. On the plus side, watching you lot get all riled up and defensive over a flash cartoon is pretty funny too. Keep fighting the good fight comrades!

 

[Brother None]

Such are the horrors of fame.

I'm pretty sure he was a stuck-up, self-righteous git before he got famous.

That said, who cares? I don't watch Zero Punctuation because I think Yahtzee has a great personality. He could rape kittens as a hobby rather than make free games as far as I'm concerned, it's not that relevant.

Hell, most people whose material is worth reading are probably not people you'd want to meet. The horror of it here is that someone like Yahtzee gets to remind everyone what a stupid git he is through the medium of his own website. Typical internet business, ruins the greatness of it being easier ignore what an ass someone is.

You know, kinda like Naked Ninja's posts make me want to completely ignore his game. Not that I wouldn't otherwise, but y'know, just for the sake of argument...

lol @ him calling himself a "gaming industry professional", though. That made my day,

 

[Bradylama]

lol @ a Dutchman using git

 

[The_Pope]

ONOS he trashed our gaem! wat a fag!

 

[Section8]

I'm pretty sure he was a stuck-up, self-righteous git before he got famous.

I don't think that's what he was getting at. More the fact that regardless of who Yahtzee is, he has the same random yahoos fascinated by nothing other than his fame.

lol @ him calling himself a "gaming industry professional", though. That made my day,

Is it unfair though? He's paid to rant about games which makes him a professional, as opposed to the guy who rants about games of his own volition. And he has a pretty high profile within the industry. He's recognised as a game ranter guy by a shitload of people within the game culture/industry. More than most editors of even major gaming sites.

I don't think it would be fair to apply the ethical implication of professional to him either, since he's not aiming to be a journalist with integrity, he's just a guy why gets paid to rant about his opinions in a lulzy manner - would he be better off termed a professional comedian?

 

[Shannow]

While I really can't get worked up because of a ZP "review" I found two points quite interesting.
His problem with inventory, questlog, map screens etc. Is there something especially bad about the screens in the witcher that is done worse than in all the other games that use separate screens? I haven't played TW yet so I was wondering...
The other point was the "epiphany" that Molyneux is obviosly not as batshit crazy as I thought.


Apart from that I didn't find this one funny. Probably just me.

 

[Bradylama]

Also everybody bitching about the quest compass needs to keep in mind that The Witcher also has a quest compass.

 

[Ausir]

I would agree with that had the monster hunts had been interesting and not generic, so I think that excuse for shitty quest design is lame, kind of like being a delivery boy. What I don't understand is why every other game on the Codex gets its failures pointed out but everytime someone mentions something about the Witcher it gets a free pass?

No, many people here acknowledge The Witcher's flaws. But most of Yahtzee's "points" are simply silly. And, let's face it, he simply doesn't like cRPGs.

Also the Choice and Consequences in the game are limited to some lame scripted scenes, so far multiple choices for the completion of quests are non-existant, every quest is beat in a linear fashion. Not only that but the dialogue is either bad or confusing and pepperd with out of place slang and modern terms. And no, I don't care how good it is in the Russian version.

What's wrong with there being modern terms? Sapkowski himself uses many modern terms in his books, since he says that the book is not about the middle-ages, it's about a fantasy world, so there is no reason why he should write in medieval Polish (or English). And if he did, you wouldn't be able to understand him because of how the language has changed.

Also everybody bitching about the quest compass needs to keep in mind that The Witcher also has a quest compass.

Which shows you to where you were directed in the dialogue (e.g. a person's house), it doesn't automatically find the people you need like in Oblivion.

 

[Brother None]

a professional comedian?

+1

You don't call Jerry Seinfeld a "professional actor", do you? Dude's a comedian, not an actor, just like Yahtzee. QED.

His problem with inventory, questlog, map screens etc. Is there something especially bad about the screens in the witcher that is done worse than in all the other games that use separate screens?

No. But it'd be pretty unintuitive for a console player, probably. PC games usually are, that's why they're PC games. Yahtzee can immediately call "elitist" on that, but then again, I probably wouldn't be able to figure out how to play a modern console games (excluding Wii) very quick. Does that mean I should call console developers and their anti-PC gamer attitude elitists?

Also everybody bitching about the quest compass needs to keep in mind that The Witcher also has a quest compass.

Isn't that only available in easiest mode? The map markers are available in any mode, but pretty sure the compass is only for n00bs.

 

[Fyz]

No, many people here acknowledge The Witcher's flaws. But most of Yahtzee's "points" are simply silly. And, let's face it, he simply doesn't like cRPGs.

Why are they silly? The only point i can't agree with, is when he complains about the interface.
If what you mean is that he exaggerates his concerns till reaching sillyness, well, that's his job.
Come on, if it weren't for the meaningful choices we've been moaning aboutsince Bloodlines, and the somehow refreshing setting the game wouldn't have ANY good rpg elements left.

Deep and innovative combat and character developement you say? No my friend, the sort of combat and char developement in the witcher is a system common in third person action games, like Bloodrayne, or Demon stone.
One can't deny the good rpg elements in the game, but with all it's flaws, it isn't such a good rpg. Definitely not something that deserves some of the codexers acting so protectively.

Also, saying that a Witcher's job is to hunt monsters is no excuse for the bad quest design.
Seriously, if I'd make an otherwise decent rpg, with a 'post office' quest hub that gives you mail delivery quests, people would complain "Hey dude, wtf, mail delivery quests suck, they are boring". Would saying "Well, you're playing a postman, what did you expect" serve as en excuse?
I doubt it would, a boring quest is a boring quest, no matter how you try to justify it.

 

[Bradylama]

Which shows you to where you were directed in the dialogue (e.g. a person's house), it doesn't automatically find the people you need like in Oblivion.

Of course, and usually you have to open up the map and set the quest to track on the minimap, highlighting the location with the available resources. The point is that it's there, so "quest compass" isn't some kind of catchall.

No. But it'd be pretty unintuitive for a console player, probably. PC games usually are, that's why they're PC games. Yahtzee can immediately call "elitist" on that, but then again, I probably wouldn't be able to figure out how to play a modern console games (excluding Wii) very quick. Does that mean I should call console developers and their anti-PC gamer attitude elitists?

It'd probably be easier to point out that Poles prefer gaming on PCs if they game in the first place.

 

[Brother None]

Why are they silly?

Directly contradicting himself on his point about the game's complexity (needlessly complex vs one-click combat) to draw the inevitable conclusions that this is a single-player MMO.

A single-player MMO is what Oblivion was. Go anywhere, do anything, consequence free. The Witcher, from what I've seen (and finally played) of it, isn't that.

 

[Fyz]

Directly contradicting himself on his point about the game's complexity (needlessly complex vs one-click combat) to draw the inevitable conclusions that this is a single-player MMO.

When he talks about the games complexity he refers to it's interface, which i don't agree with him, as i can't see why it is complex in any way.

A single-player MMO is what Oblivion was. Go anywhere, do anything, consequence free. The Witcher, from what I've seen (and finally played) of it, isn't that.

I agree, the sentence "Go anywhere, do anything, consequence free." clearly describes a game that might aswell be a single player MMO.
However so does "Repetitive clicky combat, grindy quests, running from one place to another".
It might not strike you, that the game is like an MMO because of the good RPG elements. One is less keen on finding flaws when overall the game is great, because its other aspects 'redeem' the bad ones.
Take Oblivion for example, it didnt have any good rpg elements, also it's dungeon crawling sucked, so all you had left were the flaws and MMO aspects.

Yahtzee doesn't care about RPGs, or meaningful choices, so it's natural that he comes to this conclusion.
I'm (not) playing a horribly localized version, so it's also natural that i'm more critical on the flaws, as the good points fail to redeem them. However i accept, that other versions are better in the RPG field, so i conclude that it's a good game. As Yahtzee doesn't care about those things that make it better he says it's a bad game.

I doubt that he chose to review this game. I suspect that the Escapist gave him this one, without care on what his verdict might be, as a ZeroPunctuation on it would be lulzworthy.
Then again, it's only the lulz that count, as it's rather stupid to buy your games based on Yahtzee's reviews.

 

[elander_]

Deep and innovative combat and character developement you say? No my friend, the sort of combat and char developement in the witcher is a system common in third person action games, like Bloodrayne, or Demon stone.

And still manages to be deeper than Oblivion combat by a large amount.

I would rate The Witcher combat:

ToEE > NWN > The Witcher > Pong > Oblivion

One can't deny the good rpg elements in the game, but with all it's flaws, it isn't such a good rpg. Definitely not something that deserves some of the codexers acting so protectively.

Yeah so we can rate a game a 99% score for having almost no combat gameplay at all or one that only 5 year olds would enjoy but when one actualy tries to create some gameplay we should attack him histerically. It makes perfect sense.

I doubt it would, a boring quest is a boring quest, no matter how you try to justify it.

Picking up one boring quest to judge a game is not very smart, because every game, even Fallout has one or two of these.

 

[Hazelnut]

Also, saying that a Witcher's job is to hunt monsters is no excuse for the bad quest design.
Seriously, if I'd make an otherwise decent rpg, with a 'post office' quest hub that gives you mail delivery quests, people would complain "Hey dude, wtf, mail delivery quests suck, they are boring". Would saying "Well, you're playing a postman, what did you expect" serve as en excuse?
I doubt it would, a boring quest is a boring quest, no matter how you try to justify it.

Well don't do the fuckers then. Most of the generic kill n x's are optional quests you can do for money and XP. I don't find them that boring myself, I just tend to do them as the monsters present themselves while I'm doing more important stuff. Also since I like the combat they're okay.

I was looking forward to a ZP Witcher comedy review, but I'm pretty disappointed. There are loads of things to rip on in the game, most of them missed opportunities for Yahtzee it seems. Instead he simply rags on about Pc games being too complex (ok, matter of preference / perspective) for no reason or benefit and compares it with a MMORPG which is way off base. Still given that he doesn't like RPGs it seems on top of the fact that TW doesn't really open up until act 2 I guess this is was a foregone conclusion.

I did think that ZP was lulz based on fact and truth that most gloss over, rather than just any old biased & thoughtless bollocks.

Strangely enough I enjoyed act 1 more the second time around on hard. There was a fair amount of stuff I missed while I was getting used to playing the game.

Regarding the quest 'compass' and sex cards, I had this to say in the huge TW thread once I'd actually played the game:

Overall I found that the game is overrated. The (optional) quest marker, all those simple fed-ex and kill X mobs quests, and the respawns each time I reenter an area, make me remember Oblivion.

Don't make the quest marker out to be similar to Oblivions compass - it's not. When it's available for a quest and you choose to switch it on, all it does is provide direction arrow on the minimap to where you need to go for that phase of the quest. It saves having to remember how to get to somewhere / loosing sense of direction / repeatedly checking map - all good things in many situations for many people. It's not available when geralt wouldn't know where something/one is or what to do next in a quest. It also doesn't track NPC's, but just indicates either where they normally will be during the day (at work, in pub, etc) or the location you need to meet them at the time arranged for the phase of the quest. They even tease in one quest where you have to find the right guard captain and say a pass phrase.. the quest can be tracked to the nearest one who's not the right one, and tracking is then disabled. It's simply a navigational assistant, one which I'd sorely miss.

Most RPG quests are fed-ex/kill quests, what's important is the story that's spun - the world that the story is integrated in. That's what makes quests interesting and The Witcher is very good in that sense. Everything makes sense and is believable within the gameworld.

The pr0n cards don't even deserve mentioning, yet they got it. Why mature games need to include adult content in such a forced way is beyond me.

I've got mixed feelings about these. They are a bit naff/corny, and certainly before I played the game they sounded terrible, but really it's just a bit of a fun way to represent and record Geralt having sex. They're not really porn, more erotic art cards giving some flavor to the type of sexual woman you just had a tryst with. (dirty/shy/aggressive/demure/dominating etc etc) Definitely more interesting than a fade to black at least - and I can't immediately think of a better way of doing things myself.

 

[Fyz]

Yeah so we can rate a game a 99% score for having almost no combat gameplay at all or one that only 5 year olds would enjoy but when one actualy tries to create some gameplay we should attack him histerically. It makes perfect sense.

That is not what i said.
Many flaws that are bashed in other games, are overlooked in this game, because they are redeemed. Fine. But when people do post, or god forbid, write a joke-review based on its flaws, calling them morons, idiots and console kiddies is uncalled.
Some arguments, like "The witcher's UI is so complicated i'd need to spend the weekend reading the manual" are stupid and untrue, other like "the game has fed-ex quests" are right.

Picking up one boring quest to judge a game is not very smart, because every game, even Fallout has one or two of these.

Oh, but The Witcher has around 5 grindquests in each chapter. And don't forget about the other fed-ex quests either.

 

[Crolug]

Corvus, is this guy good friend of yours?

 

[elander_]

That is not what i said.

It was not directed at you but the logic of the guy who made the review and all those guys who gave 99% to Oblivion.

Many flaws that are bashed in other games, are overlooked in this game, because they are redeemed. Fine. But when people do post, or god forbid, write a joke-review based on its flaws, calling them morons, idiots and console kiddies is uncalled.
Some arguments, like "The witcher's UI is so complicated i'd need to spend the weekend reading the manual" are stupid and untrue, other like "the game has fed-ex quests" are right.

In the Codex people judge a game for their crpg qualities first. This site is biased towards role-playing but everyone knows this. Game sites who write about games in general should try not to be biased no? Or at least make a little effort not to show their bias for game-movies like Oblivion with zero gameplay.