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Let's Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

7hm

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Yeesh said:
<3 Marsha the Merfolk Transmuter <3

Shouldn't be hard, but I can't get it to work. But then I can't get anything to work.

I just got down to Dlvl 13. No shops at all, and all the way to the end of the lair with no poison resistance. I have a scroll of acquirement, and I'm tempted to use it for jewelry. But I know I'd get something lame. But that's unavoidable anyway. Bleh.

Use it for something, especially if you have trouble with the midgame.

Nothing sucks worse than dying and being like "guess I shoulda used that scroll of aquirement".

Who knows maybe you'll get PR. It's worth a shot. Also generally jewelry is the right thing to get.
 

7hm

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Interlude - Zot Defense - Monica TrMo

A Short Interlude: Zot Defense Mini Game

Monica the Troll Monk

... in which I spend some time playing DCSS's version of tower defense.

z1_title.png


The trunk version of DCSS (0.8) is different in a number of ways. We'll see some of them later, but the first one you see in the tiles version is the title screen. There are a couple and the game rotates between them. It's small but a nice touch.

z1_select.png


The second change you'll notice is that when you login you actually have two entirely new game options; Sprint and Zot Defense.

The first, Sprint, is a variant of DCSS that has been around for a little over a year. It's a game of DCSS on steroids; you fight constant enemies, you gain levels far faster than normal, it's a blast, albeit damn hard. We'll play it later at some point (I need to get better at it, it's no fun doing an LP where you die 5 minutes in every time).

The second is Zot Defense. This is the dungeon crawl answer to Tower Defense games. If you've ever played a tower defense game you should immediately know what kind of gameplay to expect, but in case you haven't:
Tower defense or TD is a subgenre of real-time strategy computer games. The goal is to try to stop enemies from crossing the map by building towers which shoot at them as they pass. Enemies and towers usually have varied abilities and costs.
Tower defense in crawl basically follows this principal, though of course it is uniquely suited to this game. Rather than try to explain it, let's just go through the LP. :)

Before we start though, one thing - I've played this game for maybe an hour and am completely unspoiled. I have no clue what I'm doing beyond what little I've learned from actually playing, so if you have suggestions, throw em in.

z1_01.png


Meet Monica the Troll Monk. She's going to be our hero in this short adventure. You select your character in exactly the same manner as you would any game of DCSS. You'll notice right away that things are different in other ways though.

The most obvious is that there are no staircases here. This is not a normal entry vault. Instead, you get an Orb of Zot.

z1_03.png


The second is that the map is already displayed for you, not hidden like in a normal game.

z1_02.png


The third is that when you press the 'a' key, you get the above. In Zot Defense you will be granted these special abilities as you level up. You start with the ability to build dart traps, so that is exactly what Monica proceeds to do.

z1_04.png


The room you spawn in will always have some natural chokepoints to take advantage of. Though the dart traps do little damage, they do soften up your enemies for you.

You'll notice that I'm standing on the orb. That's because every time a monster hits the orb, your HP is rotted away. You absolutely don't want that to happen, so in the early game you'll sit on the orb to defend it. Monsters don't operate like in normal games - they beeline towards the orb.

z1_05.png


After a while you'll level up to level 2. When that happens you'll get the ability to spawn Oklob saplings. They're minor versions of the oklop plant.

z1_06.png


Because you can place plants directly onto the orb, the general idea seems to be to put your first plant on the orb, as Monica has done. That gives you the ability to move around and defend where the need arises. Just make sure you don't leave a sapling all alone for long. They're not very good at defending themselves on their own, and you'll quickly lose your orb and thus the game.

z1_07.png


Every so often you'll have unique monsters join the attack. They're more dangerous, obviously. Though you can get actual uniques from DCSS, from what I've seen you'll also get randoms. More powerful versions of existing monsters with random names, like the guy above.

z1_08.png


At level three you gain the ability to make arrow traps. Similar to the dart traps, but better.

z1_09.png


Rather than build arrow traps, Monica chooses to add another Oklob sapling. When you get a bunch spamming monsters they can take down some powerful monsters quickly.

z1_10.png


At level 4 you gain the ability to remove curse (no idea what that does) and place plants on the map. Plants are just like in normal DCSS - they last a lot of hits but don't actually do anything. You can use them here to funnel the monsters down paths you choose.

z1_11.png


Monica start's to get her plan in place to funnel the monsters.

z1_12.png


After a while Monica has her plants set up to funnel the monsters in. Some unique Ogre walks in and takes it in the chin - doesn't even reach Monica.

z1_13.png


Monica reaches level 5 which gives her the ability to create a burning bush. A bit tougher than the oklob saplings and it does strong fire damage.

z1_14.png


After a while a Kobold comes in with a dart of dispersal and throws my defenses a bit out of wack. Monica takes over guarding the orb again while she waits to gain more XP to put in some proper defense.

z1_15.png


At level 6 you get the ability to build altars, which we'll see Monica do a bit later on, and the ability to make grenades. I don't use grenades in this game, so I might as well explain them - they're spores that go after the monsters. They damage you and your plants too though, so be careful using them.

z1_16.png


Monica's defenses take out another unique monster.

z1_17.png


Rather than put another weak oklob sapling up to defend the orb, Monica places a burning bush there.

z1_18.png


Monica's defenses are good for the moment, so she goes exploring. Looks like this is where the monsters come from (there are two that I could see, mirrored across the map).

z1_19.png


At level 7 Monica gains the ability to place Oklob plants.

z1_20.png


Hey, it's a unique we recognise! (though he hasn't showed up in games yet)

Prince Ribbit dies just like the randoms though.

z1_21.png


Monica knows you can't depend on the last line of dense to be the only line of defense, so she starts building her second last line of defense. She spams arrow traps down and puts a couple plants at the end. That should chew up most monsters.

z1_22.png


One of the monsters gets through and destroys her plant, so she puts down a burning bush.

And hey, it's Grum. That's a unique we do know well. I don't think he's ever killed me... and he didn't start today.

z1_23.png


Blork came to the party too! He didn't even make it as far down the trap lane as Grum.

z1_24.png


At level 8 you gain the net trap. I used it a bunch in a previous game and didn't like it. It's cheap, but it's kind of intensive too. I think it would work better if I could get my defenses out further - where they're at now I need to defend two corridors, and it's not working.

z1_25.png


Monica starts placing altars on the ground. They're random, so if you don't get the god you like, just keep trying. Chei is not terrible, but we could do better.

z1_26.png


Hmmm... A lot of crap.

Eventually Monica gets an alter to Maklheb, who she worships.

I picked Oki in a previous game and when my character got confused he punched one of his plants and Oki flipped out. Not good. I think I'd stay away from him.

z1_27.png


And so the adventure ends. The yaks gang-rape Monica. It was a fun game, a great interlude from actual DCSS.

I'll probably post more of these later.
 

Qwertilot

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That does look fun :)

Just checked and *band winners seem to run to about 1-2 million turns average. Some scary folk much faster of course.

Balance between race/class options in roguelikes is actually much easier than it seems. They don't have to be balanced, they just all have to be interesting/different. If somethings too (relatively!) easy and you want a challenge then you just don't use it :)
(iirc Angband isn't all that lopsided but the differences in Zangband can be huge.).

Its really refreshing actually. Well that and these things have mostly all had years of balance tweaking....
 

Malakal

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Dont fucking go into the elven halls. Just dont, its not worth it unless you have huge huge MR. So many times I was greatly dissapointed by the loot there too...
 

Damned Registrations

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2 things I know of will let you rape Elven Halls; Alistairs (Elves can't cast while confused) and Slouch (Elves have few HP and are stupidly fast, especially when hasted.) Even with either of those two, you probably want Abjuration as well in case the demons get out of hand.

I've got no idea how a melee character with low MR would ever stand a chance in here.
 

7hm

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Malakal said:
Dont fucking go into the elven halls. Just dont, its not worth it unless you have huge huge MR. So many times I was greatly dissapointed by the loot there too...

I've only once had a problem with the early levels of Elf. Just don't go to 7 until you're extremely strong.
 

Malakal

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There is hardly any point in going into the halls and not looting the vaults. For experience perhaps - but may elves use draining attacks so it may be lost. Besides there are open areas and elven summoners...
 

Yeesh

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Sadly my scroll of acquirement failed me. Now my sad Minotaur Berserker has no poison resistance and no reliable levitation or flight, and I don't know where to go. I've cleared all of Lair except 8, and the Mines. I suppose I can survive the Hive without rP, although it would be a pain and I won't be able to eat those yummy corpses. Is it worth trying the Vault or the Elves? I have three lvls of life protection (not that I was looking for that) and can see invisible. Or should I just suck it up and do the levels that need poison resistance?

Here's Crunchy. He'll be dead soon anyway.

Code:
Crunchy the Severer (Minotaur Berserker)                                                               Turns: 28298, Time: 05:03:54

HP 131/131       AC 20     Str 23      Exp: 14/90279 (654), need: 13320
MP   6/6         EV 21     Int  6      God: Trog [******]
Gold 2409        SH  0     Dex 23      Spells:  0 memorised, 13 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   V - +2,+6 battleaxe "Hewe" {god gift, freeze, 
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   Z - +0 plate mail "Gucu Nul" {EV+5 Dex+3}
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : +   g - +1 wizard hat {MR}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   t - +0 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   G - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   R - amulet of resist corrosion
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   b - ring "Haesasy" {rN+ MR Dex+3 Int+2}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   T - ring of Shadows {+Inv rN+ EV+4 Acc-3 SInv

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also can put on an amulet of Clarity and a ring of Sustain, for what that's worth.
 

Malakal

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Your AC is pathetic for heavy armor user but your EV is good... strange. Ignore Hive and Lair, go into the Mines and deeper in the dungeon. Hive will probably kill you, but this hero has chances to be a good one.
 

Yeesh

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Yeah, I found a stupid artifact plate mail with no +AC that grants EV (while taking more away no doubt), and I'm wearing a bunch of stuff with utterly incidental +dex.

Sadly I've already cleared the mines, and the main dungeon down to 17. I don't know how much deeper I should go. I have every conceivable brand (except distortion, I guess) but it's defense where I'm screwed.
 

7hm

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With that much hp you should be able to rape hive with or without rP.

Just don't be stupid - stick to the periphery and pull enemies back in small groups or individually.

And all those corpses being sacrificed... Trog may end up giving you some rP that way anyway.
 

Zomg

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I think you could do hive pretty easily, at least if your axe skill is like 14 or better and you fight in spots where you only have to tank 1-2 bees at a time. With Trog's regeneration power running if it gets hairy. You also have double MR and SInv, Elf 1-6 might be fine and it often has a lot of shops and uniques.
 

Yeesh

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Then I'm going down to bee town.

Oh and

7hm said:
And so the adventure ends. The yaks gang-rape Monica.

Bitch got what she deserved. EDIT She called me last night at 1:30 am, but I gangster'd it.

And the bees gave me nothing. Is there always treasure hidden in the wax? I have absolutely no way to melt it. No fire wands at all, exactly one shop (scrolls). I was smart and tried immolation scrolls, and nope they don't affect wax. Which is fucked up IMHO.

EDIT EDIT: And being a Trog-worshiping minotaur, of course I've found 9 spellbooks already. 9. But you know me, I can't complain.
 

7hm

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Yeesh said:
Then I'm going down to bee town.

Oh and

7hm said:
And so the adventure ends. The yaks gang-rape Monica.

Bitch got what she deserved. EDIT She called me last night at 1:30 am, but I gangster'd it.

And the bees gave me nothing. Is there always treasure hidden in the wax? I have absolutely no way to melt it. No fire wands at all, exactly one shop (scrolls). I was smart and tried immolation scrolls, and nope they don't affect wax. Which is fucked up IMHO.

EDIT EDIT: And being a Trog-worshiping minotaur, of course I've found 9 spellbooks already. 9. But you know me, I can't complain.

There's not. Is there a lake in hive on your map? Sometimes that shows up - there's treasure if you can fly across.

I went from being able to get the last ten characters to Lair level, to barely being able to hit temple in trunk. wtf.
 

Ashery

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All I found in the hive was a bunch of royal jelly and honeycomb. It mainly just solves any potential food issues, but considering that it's fairly low risk for a conjurer/fire elementalist with rPoi, I wasn't terribly disappointed.
 

Yeesh

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7hm said:
There's not. Is there a lake in hive on your map? Sometimes that shows up - there's treasure if you can fly across.

I went from being able to get the last ten characters to Lair level, to barely being able to hit temple in trunk. wtf.

Ah, no vault then, but I did find a wand of fire and I went back and learned for the first time that there's treasure hidden wherever there's wax surrounding some black spaces. 2 more rings! Neither of which were rP... but at least I got yet another spell book.
:x

Malakal said:
Rupert? Try Aizgul or whatever that fucking caster snake-naga thing is. Ridiculous hp and good spells...

Manhead McSnakey went down thanks to Trog, but I'm still wandering around the fucking swamp without poison resistance. It's not going to end well.

25gs8zd.jpg
 

dextermorgan

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7hm said:
I went from being able to get the last ten characters to Lair level, to barely being able to hit temple in trunk. wtf.

Happened to me after having a couple of good chars going. I think it's from trying to burn through initial levels as if they were "easy" in order to get to higher level content. The game is way too unforgiving for that.

Also, Yeesh :thumbsup:
 

7hm

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Fuck the mutation your body is slowly deteriorating. That's a game restarter ffs.

Even worse is immediately afterwards drinking a potion of cure mutation... and removing the other two mutations you got from the same damn potion, but not the rot.

arg

Edit: It's liveable at least. I thought it would be worse. It still sucks though.

On another note... holy fuck this Ash god is good. I've got like 8k exp just sitting in the pool, and I've had it built up since about DL:8.

Victory dance like crazy with him. It's gotta be nerfed. (I'll still die to something dumb though)
 

Yeesh

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I wonder how long before .8 becomes official. I hope they're not balancing it with an eye towards giving the supreme experts more of a challenge, because I've never even reached half the dungeon branches. Or a third.

So how do you identify potions? I've ID'd the two healing kinds, and all the rest of them are waiting in a giant pile. God I wish I could find a shop.
 

7hm

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Yeesh said:
I wonder how long before .8 becomes official. I hope they're not balancing it with an eye towards giving the supreme experts more of a challenge, because I've never even reached half the dungeon branches. Or a third.

So how do you identify potions? I've ID'd the two healing kinds, and all the rest of them are waiting in a giant pile. God I wish I could find a shop.

They're pretty good with the balancing. Except for armor. Not sure wtf they were thinking there, though it seems to be better in .8.

I just store up a certain number and until about halfway through Lair I quaff ID every couple levels. After that, depending on what's left, I'll use identify scrolls. Nothing sucks more than a bad mutation on a good character, especially if you burn the only cure mutation scroll in the game early by quaff iding it.

I use the same strategy with scrolls.
 

Yeesh

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Ok, two things. First, this thread is apparently magic, because I gangster'd another call from Monica tonight AND I just got a text message from Marsha, and I hadn't heard from her since November. No shitting. So if you need any more suggestions, how about

-= Bethany the High Elf Assassin =-

Second, and more dreadful, I've just run into Mara. AND he cloned me instantly upon coming into view. I'm thinking this is a time to run, since the wide-open swamp is a nightmare against a summoner. But the environment's also not conducive to an escape, since the ghost of me levitates and I cannot. And the nearest stairway is really, really, really far. I'm wearing a clarity amulet, and I could use Trog's Hand and Battle Brothers and Berserk.

On the other hand, I have a scroll of teleport and also a ring that gives teleport-itis. I really don't want to lose this guy, and I'm terrified of the fact that Mara is worth 7500 xp. That can't be good.

nvz6fs.jpg
 

Ashery

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7hm said:
Yeesh said:
I wonder how long before .8 becomes official. I hope they're not balancing it with an eye towards giving the supreme experts more of a challenge, because I've never even reached half the dungeon branches. Or a third.

So how do you identify potions? I've ID'd the two healing kinds, and all the rest of them are waiting in a giant pile. God I wish I could find a shop.

They're pretty good with the balancing. Except for armor. Not sure wtf they were thinking there, though it seems to be better in .8.

I just store up a certain number and until about halfway through Lair I quaff ID every couple levels. After that, depending on what's left, I'll use identify scrolls. Nothing sucks more than a bad mutation on a good character, especially if you burn the only cure mutation scroll in the game early by quaff iding it.

I use the same strategy with scrolls.

Wouldn't it be best to just use id potions that you have two or more of? I adhere to a similar principal for scrolls early on, but by the time I'm around half way through the lair I start use iding every available scroll as a measure to prevent the destruction of a scroll of acquirement due to some fucking sticky flame. All use iding (Save for very early on) is done in the temple for the sake of safety.

Edit: Decided to give trunk a try and see how a Chei worshiping MDFi would turn out and I just found a generic kobold using some fucking crystal plate on D:7 :D
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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To be safest, I'd suggest using brothers in arms, telling them to attack Mara, and teleporting the fuck away. Hopefully the summons will keep your enemies too busy to chase after you at all, and might even kill the bastard by the time you reach the stairs.

Don't berserk. The last thing you need is to lose the ability to use scrolls and potions. Only use it as an absolute last resort.

Posting your inventory might help as well. Maybe there's something useful in there you didn't notice.

About quaff IDing potions, there is something worse than getting a bad mutation on a good character: Losing an awesome mutation on a good character. If you already have something amazingly nice like Clarity, tele control, or antennae, don't fuck around with potions until you've identified mutation and cure mutation. Another tip is to try learning fulsome distillation and using it until you've ID'd a bunch of the bad potions. It's only a level 1 spell, and you can also use it to stockpile an assload of mutation potions if you find a bunch of cure mutation pots and feel like trying your luck. In short, only use ID later on when you're sure all the really nasty stuff is out of the way.
 

Yeesh

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Inventory looks like so. I haven't moved at all and I'm very proud of myself for asking for help instead of dying. I wish I'd ID's some potions earlier though. I have a ton unID's in the stash, but they can't do any good there.

Code:
Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   V - +2,+6 battleaxe "Hewe" {god gift, freeze, 
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   Z - +0 plate mail "Gucu Nul" {EV+5 Dex+3}
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   g - +1 wizard hat {MR}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : +   (no cloak)
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   t - +0 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   G - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   f - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   T - ring of Shadows {+Inv rN+ EV+4 Acc-3 SInv 
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   b - ring "Haesasy" {rN+ MR Dex+3 Int+2}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: horns 2
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 4 of the Swamp.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 35 of its levels.
You have visited 1 portal chamber: spiders nest.

You have collected 2707 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 w - a demon whip of flaming
 H - a +0,+9 dwarven hand axe of returning (quivered) {god gift}
 Q - a +1,+1 sabre of venom
 V - the +2,+6 battleaxe "Hewe" (weapon) {god gift, freeze, rElec rC++ rN+}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 8 of the Dungeon)   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra 
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly 
   susceptible opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
Missiles
 s - 7 poisoned +0 orcish darts
 M - 28 runed orcish darts
 Y - 22 exploding dwarven darts
Armour
 c - a pair of gauntlets
 g - a +1 wizard hat of magic resistance (worn)
 t - a +0 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 y - a dwarven shield
 G - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 L - an elven cloak
 Z - the +0 plate mail "Gucu Nul" (worn) {EV+5 Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
Magical devices
 a - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}
 d - a wand of fire {zapped: 6}
 i - a wand of digging (17)
 o - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 1}
 r - a wand of cold {zapped: 6}
 C - a wand of paralysis {zapped: 4}
 J - a wand of paralysis
Comestibles
 j - a meat ration
 x - 5 honeycombs
 E - a bread ration
 W - a pear
Scrolls
 e - a scroll of fog
 n - 5 scrolls of detect curse
 p - 4 scrolls of identify
 q - a scroll of teleportation
 A - 2 scrolls of blinking
 I - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 K - a scroll labeled OTTANO KHOGEEX
 N - a scroll of enchant armour
 O - a scroll labeled WAAROZUCUD
 S - a scroll of immolation
Jewellery
 b - the ring "Haesasy" (left hand) {rN+ MR Dex+3 Int+2}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 f - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
 h - an uncursed ring of levitation
 l - the ring of Dishonour {*TELE EV+5 Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Hive)   
   [ring of teleportation]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
 z - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 R - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 T - the ring of Shadows (right hand) {+Inv rN+ EV+4 Acc-3 SInv Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   [ring of invisibility]
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your accuracy (-3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 U - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
Potions
 k - 10 potions of healing
 m - 5 potions of heal wounds
 u - an inky potion
 v - 3 purple potions
 B - a green potion
 D - a metallic white potion
 P - 2 lumpy inky potions
Books
 F - a hardcover book   
   Trog disapproves of the use of such an item.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to mention I'm on Swamp 4. So maybe it's time to go back upstairs and do something else. Assuming I can get away.
 

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