A pretty dumb MotB review

[thesheeep]

[Krokar]

[anttiYG]

Edit: while I'm writing this reply to Kingston, thesheeep and Krokar post really nice and useful replies. Thanks for the feedback guys. Vault Dweller's MotB review is pretty entertaining and in-depth, so I linked it on the YouGamers MotB forum thread. Shame about the guy's infantile forum behavior (see his reply below).

[Serious_Business]

[Vault Dweller]

[Andyman Messiah]

Antti, my man! You seem like a likeable fella. However, this little gem made me put you on THE LIST!

[Kingston]

[Lumpy]

[MetalCraze]

[Volourn]

"not a single line."

O RLY? So, you enjoy reading repetive stuff. L0L
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R00fles!

[MetalCraze]

[Jeff Graw]

Having read the actual review, I think this is one of the better ones. I don't agree with everything the author says (specifically the part about dialog, and the visual prop thing), but I can sympathize with most of his complaints and praises.

In regards to the visual prop thing (and your comment on the other forum), it seems that you are docking the game marks because it doesn't have sandbox play, and that's, excuse my rudeness, pretty stupid. Sandbox play has it's advantages and disadvantages. Whether or not a game has sandbox play effects the very nature of that game -- it's not something that can be used as a check box in a review. I mean, if every game had sandbox play we would loose variety and be forever to cursed to suffer the disadvantages of that mechanic.

[anttiYG]

[Jeff Graw]

[Otingocni]

[Lingwe]

[quote=from their forums]Let me just try and clear one misunderstanding. Forget about dishes, cutlery, bottles or whatever. By "visual prop" I mean all the outdoor areas where you can't walk, just because the map has a very small accessible area. Want to see what's beyond that hill? Well you can't, because it's not a hill, it's just a prop. Tramping back and forth between the same few locations in a severely limited game world made me feel like I was playing a 1980s Sierra adventure game.[/quote]

Sorry mate, but just because a game doesn't have sandbox play doesn't mean it is lacking in "visual prop". Just because Oblivion had an open world it doesn't mean that every other RPG after it also has to have it. Claiming that the game is bad just because it doesn't follow that style of play is the reason why I have such contempt for gaming journalists.

[Longshanks]

The review is not too bad; it is quite comprehensive (though no mention of choice and consequence, apart from "tough decisions") and provides detailed reasoning for most points made.

I would like to know whether the reviewer has played many RPGs in the past, he did mention Betrayal at Krondor, but his comments about the combat seem to suggest he's unfamiliar with the very common RTWP mechanics (played any of these: Planescape: Torment, BG1+2, KOTOR1+2, IWD1+2, Dungeon Siege).

I agree with Jeff Graw's comments on continuous worlds, they are not an objective virtue (I am very much in favour of zoned areas) and it would be a bad thing for all RPGs to follow this route (such worlds, are still the minority for single-player RPGs, so I will again question the reviewer's RPG history (played Fallout 1+2 ?)).

My main objections to continuous worlds are their almost necessary greater focus on exploration (of the, get loot, kill monsters for XP kind, there is also good exploration), loot collection, combat and that they are too small big worlds (ie. takes minutes to travel by foot from town to town).

On his "too wordy" comment, I would most likely not agree with it (though I have not played MotB yet), but the implication that someone who makes such a comment just does not like reading is overly simplistic. I could easily see such an accusation being made of me for my dislike of a recent adventure game "Culpa Innata", the proportion of dialogue in this game is too high (mostly uninteresting and non-interactive), with very few puzzles and little to no exploration in between. There are many who have enjoyed the game and list the writing and story as its highlights, I found the writing decent, the dialogue dull and the story quite good but too slow moving.

We are all products of our experiences, if this reviewer has missed many of the RPGs in the past 10 years and is more a fan of Oblivion-type sandboxes, then this is a nicely balanced, comprehensive review with mostly well supported points, and is of value for those with similar RPG histories. It does not read like a review by a hardcore RPGer, but if that is not his audience then it is fine, just as a more casual RPG player may not get much out of an RPGCodex review. I do think it fair to criticise the review for a seeming lack of experience in the genre, but unfair to label it as stupid.

[Matt7895]

I read/let play every single line of dialogue in my first playthrough. I want the whole experience, not the lazy casual one.

On the second/third playthroughs I usually skip, but on the first playthrough I never skip. That would be the same as skipping one of the towns in Fallout because there were too many of them as distractions.
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[Jaesun]

Let's compare Oblivion to MotB according to YouGamers shall we? (Oblivion review done by a different person):

MotB
Gameplay 78 - Mask of the Betrayer has solid writing and all the trappings of a great RPG title, but feels boxed in by the level design. Too much of what you see is just a visual prop, and in the post-Oblivion era, that's just not good enough.

Oblivion
Gameplay 93 - Epic, engaging, fun; great combat and character development mechanics, with a long lasting experience.

So, MotB apparently lacks Epic, engaging, fun; great combat and character development mechanics, with a long lasting experience.

I'm speechless.
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:respect: :volourn: :tubgirl:

Professional Gaming Journalist: After hitting the attack button several times for the character I had selected, I realized that I wasn’t attacking.

[Naked Ninja]

I really can't imagine skipping any dialogue at all...seriously, how long and how much effort does it take to read a line of text? In fact, I can't really remember ever skipping text in a game, ever. It's like missing a cutscene... that "yeah yeah, just tell me where I have to go/what I have to kill" mentality is so utterly alien to me. I

Also, static environments? Come on. Have you played a game like GEARS? You can't just wander anywhere. It is a cleverly disguised corridor shooter. "In this era" is meaningless, the artists have just got better at disguising the limits.

As to open worlds...I'm not a fan of needless filler. Exactly how would a story focused game like MoTB be enhanced if the player could choose to wander around the forest for 8 hours whacking bears and collecting herbs?

A principle of good game design is to focus on your core gameplay concept. If an element doesn't support your core concept it is extrenuous and shouldn't be added. In Oblivion, it is sadnboxyness...in MoTB it is story. Comparing the 2 games without taking that into account is silly.

MoTB does AS good a job of supporting it's core design principle (storytelling) as Oblivion does of supporting it's own (free roaming). I would say moreso in fact, but that is debate for another time.

And you can't support Oblivions level of content without sacrificing quality. Oblivion has miles of forest...which are all boring and samey. It has hundreds of dungoens...which all look alike and play the same. Oblivions large landscapes are sparse of the interactive and encompassing narrative that MoTB has. What is over that hill? Another boring hill. Maybe a cookie-cutter dungeon.

Again it comes down to core design principles and what a designer is aiming to achieve. Your comparison is apples and oranges.
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Developer - Scars of War , an indie RPG.

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[Jeff Graw]

Stop beating a dead horse, people. The man has admitted that he made a mistake with the static world/Oblivion comparison part of the review.

[Longshanks]

[Naked Ninja]

This is the Codex, the horsebeating never ends
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Developer - Scars of War , an indie RPG.

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[Jeff Graw]

[WhiskeyWolf]