The Witcher's Flashback system

Elwro · Sep 4, 2007

An example of the game's way of handling c&c, translated (and adapted :D) from a 196-page book about the game added as a bonus to today's CD-Action. (I left a few sentences out.) Maybe everyone else knows this, but I've stopped watching the trailers some time ago.

SPOILERS AHEAD

The task: Geralt is hired by Haren the merchant to protect some goods which are being kept near the riverbank from monsters. To cut a long story short, after the monsters are killed, elves and dwarves from the Resistance appear and demand handing over the crates with weapons supposedly belonging to them.

Decision: either A) consider the job done, since the monsters are killed, and allow the Resistance to take the crates; or, of course, B) kill them.

Short-term effect: the same regardless of the decision - the merchant pays for the job and helps with the investigation.

10-15 hours pass, no effects of the decision are seen.

THEN

1. If A was chosen: Another task requires getting information from a certain individual called Coleman. After seeking him, we only discover his warm body - as we soon learn, a few moments earlier an elven commando had murdered him, using the weapons we've given them.

Flashback to remind the player of his decision and its consequences.

Long-term effect 1: the task cannot be completed using Coleman's help. The player needs to find another source of information.

2. If B was chosen: Another task requires getting in touch with a dwarven banker by the name of Vivaldi. When Geralt reaches his house, he's witness to the dwarf's arrest by the City Guard, on charges of collaboration with elven terrorists. His nephew (sic) was one of the elves we've killed, which gave the Guard a lead.

Flashback to remind the player of his decision and its consequences. Geralt realizes that because of his actions an innocent man was arrested.

Long-term effect 2: To complete the task, the player needs to find a way of getting Vivaldi out of prison. Some new tasks appear, some are no longer possible to complete.

JarlFrank · Sep 4, 2007

Sounds good indeed. I like the idea of long-term consequences to your action, and that every action has negative consequences, too. Can't wait to play it.

SimpleComplexity · Sep 4, 2007

didn`t read this, because of the spoilers.

i might get it as well(after the codex`s approval), probably the first and the last part, before they turn it into a shitty multiplatform title, just being realistically.

MetalCraze · Sep 4, 2007

after the monsters are killed,

Decision: either A) consider the job done, since the monsters are killed, and allow the Resistance to take the crates; or, of course, B) kill them.

This sounds so... bioware

JarlFrank · Sep 4, 2007

skyway said:
after the monsters are killed,

Click to expand...

Decision: either A) consider the job done, since the monsters are killed, and allow the Resistance to take the crates; or, of course, B) kill them.

Click to expand...

This sounds so... bioware

But Bioware gives you no consequences to it.

Durwyn · Sep 4, 2007

I've already pre-ordered it... Sounds too good, can't wait to play...

MetalCraze · Sep 4, 2007

But Bioware gives you no consequences to it.

yes, but

only 2 choices that both involve killing something?
whatever, it's an action-rpg blah blah blah

And we will see about other consequences and other choices. I do not trust hype. Especially from a studio that did not prove itself.

JarlFrank · Sep 4, 2007

skyway said:
But Bioware gives you no consequences to it.

Click to expand...

yes, but

only 2 choices that both involve killing something?
whatever, it's an action-rpg blah blah blah

And we will see about other consequences and other choices. I do not trust hype. Especially from a studio that did not prove itself.

They're from Eastern Europe, they got a good taste in games.
Also, more Choice and Consequence than most of the other recently released and/or upcoming RPGs.

MetalCraze · Sep 4, 2007

They're from Eastern Europe, they got a good taste in games.

stalker *sigh*

Also, more Choice and Consequence than most of the other recently released and/or upcoming RPGs.

well if it will be done nicely then it's ok.
however if not... It's like it was with Fallout in Germany. They've said to Cain - make children invincible or cut them out. He had chosen the last one.
See

denizsi · Sep 4, 2007

Old news: here, here and here for the exact same thing.

Actually, one of those is your thread, Elwro, so why bring it up again?

Elwro · Sep 4, 2007

Whoa, I knew I forgot about something.

denizsi · Sep 4, 2007

25, with Alzheimer's creeping in.

Shoelip · Sep 5, 2007

skyway said:
But Bioware gives you no consequences to it.

Click to expand...

yes, but

only 2 choices that both involve killing something?
whatever, it's an action-rpg blah blah blah

And we will see about other consequences and other choices. I do not trust hype. Especially from a studio that did not prove itself.

Actually, the choices are either to kill some people or not to kill them. So no, only one of the choices involves killing something. The killing of the monsters happens before the choice.

MetalCraze · Sep 5, 2007

but you will have to kill monsters anyway
*sigh*

Actually, the choices are either to kill some people or not to kill them

that's what I afraid of. black/white choices.

The_Pope · Sep 5, 2007

The game has a much bigger excuse for all quests involving killing things - you play a professional foozle slayer. It gets annoying in games where pacifist monk and filthy hippie are character options.

Shoelip · Sep 5, 2007

skyway said:
but you will have to kill monsters anyway
*sigh*

Actually, the choices are either to kill some people or not to kill them

Click to expand...

that's what I afraid of. black/white choices.

Exactly, my apparently foreign friend.

er... Anyway, the point is, you kill the monsters before the choice occurs, the actual choice is to either kill the people that arrive after the fact or not. What important here however is that there are actually long term consequences to this seemingly shallow choice.

The_Pope said:
The game has a much bigger excuse for all quests involving killing things - you play a professional foozle slayer. It gets annoying in games where pacifist monk and filthy hippie are character options.

Huh? What game allows you to play as a pacifist monk.

yaster · Sep 5, 2007

Shoelip said:
Exactly, my apparently foreign friend. er... Anyway, the point is, you kill the monsters before the choice occurs, the actual choice is to either kill the people that arrive after the fact or not. What important here however is that there are actually long term consequences to this seemingly shallow choice.

Actually, there is good reason to kill them. They certainly aren't ordinary "people". Ordinary people wouldn't need weapon with Geralt guard, would they? And what are weapons for? To kill other people. Killing = bad, right? Conclusion: to save probably good people you need to get rid of "bad people".
Well, that would mean killing the ones who want weapons is good then, right? Well considering that the guys who want weapon have some reason for killing (they are leftovers of elf, highly represed by man) then we have some "shades of gray". Here you go! No thanks needed.

edit: gee, spelling error..

ricolikesrice · Sep 5, 2007

the question is how often these choices & consequences appear in the game.

if i remember right that other "eastern "cRPG Two Worlds hyped the same thing, i.e. your actions having more impact on the world and always brought up one quest as an example...... yet that quest also happened to be one of a handful which actually SOMEwhat lived up to the hype, with the other 90% of the game just beeing hack n slash.

i have the same fear for the witcher, though i hope i m proven wrong.

hakuroshi · Sep 5, 2007

Shoelip said:
Huh? What game allows you to play as a pacifist monk.

Exile 2 had such option, I think. And Fallouts of course

As for Witcher, it would be difficult to give another examples of c&c handling without MORE spoilers. Well, hope for the best, ready for the worst until release.

Atrokkus · Sep 5, 2007

skyway said:
stalker *sigh*

It was an excellent FPS. And please note: NOBODY (maybe except a handful of stupid fans) proclaimed it to be an RPG (let alone an awesome one).
See, it's always about what the developer promises and what is being delivered. Everything else is a matter of personal preference.

skyway said:
but you will have to kill monsters anyway

Nothing wrong with that -- you are a witcher, it is your duty to hunt down monsters. Just like in Fallout 1, as much nonlinear and open-ended the game was, you could never choose, say, to side with the master. For some it would also be quite a natural choice, you know?

The_Pope · Sep 5, 2007

Shoelip said:
Huh? What game allows you to play as a pacifist monk.

Most DnD based rpgs allow you to play a cleric who follows a pacifist god. Of course, the games don't allow you to behave anything close to in character.

Shoelip · Sep 5, 2007

The_Pope said:
Shoelip said:

Huh? What game allows you to play as a pacifist monk.

Click to expand...

Most DnD based rpgs allow you to play a cleric who follows a pacifist god. Of course, the games don't allow you to behave anything close to in character.

So do you have an answer to the question or not?

Also, any games that let you play a Shinji Ikari?

The_Pope · Sep 5, 2007

Shoelip said:
The_Pope said:

Shoelip said:

Huh? What game allows you to play as a pacifist monk.

Click to expand...

Most DnD based rpgs allow you to play a cleric who follows a pacifist god. Of course, the games don't allow you to behave anything close to in character.

Click to expand...

So do you have an answer to the question or not?

Also, any games that let you play a Shinji Ikari?

I just did in the post you quoted. If you need an absurdly specific answer, in NWN 2 you can play a priest of the following:

Berronar Truesilver
Aliases: The Revered Mother, Mother of Safety
Alignment: Lawful Good
Portfolio: Safety, honesty, home, healing, the dwarven family, records, marriage, faithfulness, loyalty, oaths

Chauntea
Aliases: The Great Mother, the Grain Goddess, Earthmother
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: Agriculture, plants, cultivated by humans, farmers, gardeners, summer

Eldath
Aliases: Goddess of Singing Waters, Mother Guardian of Groves, the Green Goddess
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: Quest places, springs, pools, peace, waterfalls

Hanali Celanil
Aliases: The Heard of Gold, Winsome Rose, Lady Goldheart
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Portfolio: Love, romance, beauty, enchantments, magic item artistry, fine art, artists

Milil
Aliases: Lord of Song, the One True Hand of All-Wise Oghma
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: Poetry, song, eloquence

Sharindlar
Aliases: Lady of LIfe and Mercy, the Shining Dancer
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Portfolio: Healing, mercy, romantic, love, fertility, dancing, courtship, the moon

Sheela Peryroyl
Aliases: Green Sister, Watchful Mother
Alignment: Neutral
Portfolio: Nature, agriculture, weather, song, dance, beauty, romantic love

Yondalla
Aliases: The Protector and Provider, the Nurturing Matriarch, the Blessed One
Alignment: Lawful Good
Portfolio: Protection, bounty, halflings, children, security, leadership, wisdom, creation, family, tradition

Google triumphs again.

Elwro · Sep 5, 2007

But playing as a pacifist in NWN2 is like playing a rhododendron in Oblivion. It's entirely possible and maybe even people do it. In their heads.

MetalCraze · Sep 5, 2007

It was an excellent FPS.

uh huh. With bots appearing every 3 minutes in point A then moving to point B while shooting everything on the road then stopping at the point B. forever. And an idiotic storyline that starts with amnesia and ends with spoilar down there

some stupid scientists that can't even explain wtf they are doing there. yes.

add to this that you have to shoot like 20 bullets from first guns found in the beginning to take down one of 100000^100 bandits (I thought the Zone was closed) there. who even does not wear armor.

An excellent FPS indeed.
And I even didn't start to count unfulfilled promises yet.

NOBODY (maybe except a handful of stupid fans) proclaimed it to be an RPG

strange to hear that from an editorial staff of crpg.ru which actually has stalker in the RPG database there.
http://www.crpg.ru/base.php?op=S

Nothing wrong with that -- you are a witcher, it is your duty to hunt down monsters. Just like in Fallout 1, as much nonlinear and open-ended the game was, you could never choose, say, to side with the master. For some it would also be quite a natural choice, you know?

There you have a minus of Fallout1. Now for saying this I will be proclaimed heretic and burned down to ashes.

Yes I understand that killing monsters is natural for witcher. But my worry is about how much killing you will do later in the game. With apparently black & white choice in this particular quest my worries are even bigger. Yes it will have consequences, but if most quests will include hack'n'slash then that is not very reassuring.

It's entirely possible and maybe even people do it. In their heads.

wonder how they do it in the ork caves.

The Witcher's Flashback system

Arcane

I like Thief THIS much

Arbiter

Arcane

I like Thief THIS much

Prophet

Arcane

I like Thief THIS much

Arcane

Arcane

Arcane

Arcane

Arbiter

Arcane

Scholar

Arbiter

Liturgist

Arcane

Augur

Erudite

Scholar

Arbiter

Scholar

Arcane

Arcane