Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

A Pirate's Life In Risen 2: Dark Waters (IGN)

curry

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
4,010
Location
Cooking in the lab
http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1210360p1.html

Risen's transformation into a swashbuckling pirate adventure hints at a more accessible approach to role-playing than Gothic developer Piranha Bytes usually takes. Risen 2: Dark Waters is still very much a traditionalist PC-style RPG, but it's one designed to guide players in more effectively without sacrificing complexity. The changes are mostly to do with structure and pacing: where Risen presented you with a massive island to explore right from the get-go, Risen 2 has a bigger world that's fed to you in smaller chunks, gradually opening up as your understanding of the game grows.

More Risen 2: Dark Waters Videos

Or, to put it another way, you start out as a washed-up drunkard and end up as a pirate captain. Risen 2: Dark Waters is a genuine attempt at a deep pirate role-playing game. It's a mix of treasure-hunting, scimitar-wielding, rum-fuelled action in port towns and on deserted islands, and an overarching tale of supernatural world-threatening powers that will be familiar to any devotee of the first game. It's an interesting synthesis, but in moving away from the return to high fantasy that's currently sweeping the RPG genre thanks to games like Skyrim and The Witcher 2, Dark Waters is carving out a recognisably different identity for itself.

"The Witcher and Skyrim were partly the reason why we thought of another setting," says Piranha Bytes' Daniel Oberlerchner. "I mean, how many medieval RPGs do people want to play? It's hard to make something distinctive in that setting, especially as The Witcher did a really good job.

"What's cool about the pirate theme is that it's really carried through the entire game, it seeps into every core aspect. It's not just the backdrop for the story, and it's not just been slapped on to the Risen engine. It's part of the skill tree, it's integral to how you interact with people (and not just because of the swearing). We've driven it further than anyone before in terms of how detailed this re-enaction of a pirate's life can be. In most games you're limited to sailing around in a ship and doing naval battles – everybody's done that a hundred times before. We wondered: what would a pirate be doing when he's not on a ship?"


Risen 2 casts you, in the beginning, as an alcoholic, disillusioned version of the first Risen's Unnamed Hero, washed up once again on a sparsely-populated island ten years on from the first game. Tasked with infiltrating the pirate community, his first challenge is to get off the island and find somewhere more populated. This is a gentler introduction than the first Risen's entirely open world, which was explorable in all directions right from the start. It's impossible to escape this first island without at least a rudimentary understanding of how things like equipment and combat work, setting you up for an easier entry into the larger world out across the seas.

"In Risen 1 we made the error that we immediately started off with a complete open world, and the difficulty was medium to quite hard right from the beginning," Oberlerchner explains. "Especially in the US, people were shocked that you could die in the tutorial. It was like a funnel – you could to a lot at the beginning, and your options closed down towards the end. For Risen 2 we've put the funnel upside down, so we're starting out quite linear, and opening out."

The Unnamed Hero's first encounter is with a gnome called Jaffar in a fetching tricorne hat, who can speak rudimentary and obscenity-peppered English that he evidently learned from pirates. "It's pirate-themed, so we're going for a high number of f**ks per minute," grins Peter Brolly of Piranha Bytes. Risen 2's language is certainly colourful, and happily the variation of accents and dialects is just as broad as it ever was. I'm so sick of hearing totally out-of-place Californians in medieval RPGs that I could have sung when I encountered a boss later on in the demo who looked and sounded like a Yorkshire version of Johnny Depp.


After enlisting Jaffar's help in building a raft, we set off on a disappointingly predictable fetch quest to collect together all the materials, though our spirits are lifted by the personality on display in Piranha Bytes' world. The other gnomes on the island turn out to speak their own fairly rudimentary language, much to "Why can't these little bastards learn to speak properly," he says, with all the affability and openness to foreign cultures of the typical Englishman on holiday. Later, in a sizeable port town where, we see a little more quest variation: sabotaging cannons to blast away a prison wall and free a prisoner for your pirate crew, infiltrating watchtowers, even sending a fully-controllable trained money in through people's open windows to pick locks and loot chests.

Risen 2's world is hand-crafted, which should hopefully give it the same sense of place that Risen 1 was memorable for. There's no procedural generation, no randomly-spawning enemies, no fake doors. Every person in the port town has their own house and their own bed, and they'll get rather upset with you if you try to sleep in it. They have daily routines in which you, too, can take part, taking up a smithing, mining or harvesting job to earn a little extra cash or experience.

It's a little disappointing that there's no actual sailing in Risen 2: Dark Waters, given that it makes such a big deal of its cohesive and believable world. Once you've commandeered a ship, you flit from island to island in a map screen rather than taking on the high seas, which rather undermines the sense of cohesion. Oberlerchner provides good justification, though: try to do everything at once, and you'll end up not doing any of it very well.


"In the beginning, of course we considered it," he says. "But then you're thinking of what you can bring to the table that's more than anyone else has done – should it be more accurate? Shoulds it be a sailing simulator? It was all too complicated. We know our limits at Piranha Bytes: we're a core RPG developer. We have people who can write great dialogue, we have great quest-designers, we have open-ended and believable game worlds, but we don't have the expertise to develop a strategy- or tactical naval battle game.

"It's really important to focus what you're doing. You can try to do everything, but you can't do anything well then. The only people who can do everything right now are people like Rockstar and Bethesda - although I'm pretty sure that Skyrim is not going to be excellent on every level. That's just not possible. There are always limits to what you can do."

Risen 2: Dark Waters is trying very hard to be funny as well as delivering the kind of in-depth RPG experience that its fans are going to expect. Its dialogue is peppered with swears and quips, and you can throw parrots at enemies to confuse them during a battle. This levity sits a little uneasily with the complexity of the underlying game, but it's also refreshing to see a hardcore RPG that doesn't take itself overly seriously, and the pirate theme lends itself more easily to light-heartedness than the deep fantasy that's defining the genre at the moment.

This is a game with a hell of a battle on its hands to win your attention in one of the greatest eras for the role-playing game since the late Nineties, but Risen 2: Dark Waters is doing its very best to distinguish itself from the crowd. It fills the hardcore RPG niche for players who are happy starting off as a nobody rather than an instant superhero – and there aren't many gamers out there who haven't wondered from time to time what a real, deep pirate role-playing game might look like.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Damn you curry for forcing me to buy it. DAMN you!!! I don't have the fucking money to do this!!!!!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
hints at a more accessible approach
still very much a traditionalist PC-style RPG
deep pirate role-playing game.
The Witcher did a really good job.
gentler introduction
an easier entry
Especially in the US, people were shocked that you could die in the tutorial.
disappointingly predictable fetch quest
we're a core RPG developer
We have people who can write great dialogue
in-depth RPG experience
hardcore RPG
one of the greatest eras for the role-playing game since the late Nineties
fills the hardcore RPG niche
deep pirate role-playing game

Don't mind me, just cutting and pasting things I find funny for my funny scrapbook.
 

Micmu

Magister
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
6,163
Location
ALIEN BASE-3
In Risen 1 we made the error that we immediately started off with a complete open world
Same "error" you made in Gothic 1 and 2? This is what made those games cool.

Go fuck yourselves assholes
Especially in the US, people were shocked that you could die in the tutorial
IT'S OFFICIAL: U.S. COCKBREATHS ARE NOW WORSE TO GAMING THAN JAPS AND THEIR ANIME
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Having a relative safe/easy/contained tutorial/intro area is not the end of the world. Anyway, the biggest complaints about G1, G2, and Risen were that it started out open and ended up narrow with every path melding into one for the last few acts. This time they said it would be the opposite. We'll see how the rest of it plays out.
 

Skittles

He ruins the fun.
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
983
Yeah, the article seems to be saying 'easier with a narrower, more manageable path' but the dev's 'difficulty curve with expanding, not shrinking, options' seems reasonable. I really loved the open world feel that Gothic II had, though, and I hope they don't break that.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
I'm genuinely surprised IGN can make the time for this coverage in between sucking off Todd and Emil.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
It's pirate-themed, so we're going for a high number of f**ks per minute
I don't recall a single fuck in Risen.
Hope it's not too awkward.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,031
Sometimes I have the impression than the atmosphere of Gothic/Risen is something so hard to achieve than there is no way in which they will not fucked it up. And somehow they managed to get the same feeling in 4 games, including the flawed Gothic 3 and Risen, and this is something that gives me hope for Risen2.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,241
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
;DROP DATABASE;-- said:
In Risen 1 we made the error that we immediately started off with a complete open world
Same "error" you made in Gothic 1 and 2? This is what made those games cool.

Go fuck yourselves assholes
Especially in the US, people were shocked that you could die in the tutorial
IT'S OFFICIAL: U.S. COCKBREATHS ARE NOW WORSE TO GAMING THAN JAPS AND THEIR ANIME

Yeah, it is comments like this that are very worrisome. As in instead of making a good game, they now are letting the Marketing Execs tell them what kind of game to make. Like EA and all the others....
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Jaesun said:
;DROP DATABASE;-- said:
In Risen 1 we made the error that we immediately started off with a complete open world
Same "error" you made in Gothic 1 and 2? This is what made those games cool.

Go fuck yourselves assholes
Especially in the US, people were shocked that you could die in the tutorial
IT'S OFFICIAL: U.S. COCKBREATHS ARE NOW WORSE TO GAMING THAN JAPS AND THEIR ANIME

Yeah, it is comments like this that are very worrisome. As in instead of making a good game, they now are letting the Marketing Execs tell them what kind of game to make. Like EA and all the others....

Sorry for bringing GD into RPG discussion, but am I the only one who thinks that:
- 'US gamers shocked that you can die in the tutorial, give up and call the game shit'; and
- 'US has massive unemployment AND a massive shortage of farm labour simultaneously, despite having near-3rd-world welfare and a shockingly low minimum wage (i.e. they'd rather starve than work hard)'

...are maybe, just maybe, related?
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,241
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
Saxon1974 said:
More linear and "more accessible"

my interest in this game just went down ALOT

Yeah, that is pretty much the Death Knell chant of any game.

Next: Risen III - Producer EA
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
Zed said:
It's pirate-themed, so we're going for a high number of f**ks per minute
I don't recall a single fuck in Risen.
Hope it's not too awkward.

I'm pretty sure Brogar from the Don's camp used the word liberally.
 

Satan

Educated
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
635
I'm pretty sure that Skyrim is not going to be excellent on every level. That's just not possible. There are always limits to what you can do.

:salute:

Seems like not only CDP has the guts to say someone sucks. This should be a lot more popular.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
"For Risen 2 we've put the funnel upside down, so we're starting out quite linear, and opening out."

Apparently most of you all glossed over that. The linear/accessible adjectives are meant to describe the introduction, not the entire game. Anyway, as pointed out, the previous games became linear by the third act or so. So rather than starting out open and going linear they're doing the reverse. Why is that bad?

Whether they accomplish that or not is another story but dismissing the possibility because you misread the article is silly. I'm actually grateful they recognized that glaring flaw and are going to at least try to change their design philosophy.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,308
Metro said:
dismissing the possibility because you misread the article is silly.

Not exactly a new phenomenon around here is it? Read just enough to see something you might not like, start presuming, cry about decline. Business as usual.
Obviously having a linear starting area kills the game, better wait for that Mass Effect 3 then.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Metro said:
"For Risen 2 we've put the funnel upside down, so we're starting out quite linear, and opening out."

Apparently most of you all glossed over that. The linear/accessible adjectives are meant to describe the introduction, not the entire game. Anyway, as pointed out, the previous games became linear by the third act or so. So rather than starting out open and going linear they're doing the reverse. Why is that bad?
It isn't, if they can pull it off. A lot of posters here also seem to have something against difficulty curves, expecting games to smash their faces in as soon as they take their first steps (Well it is a PB tradition...). And there's always the risk of starting simple and easy and remaining that way and the combat videos I've seen were nauseating and not optimism-inspiring in the slightest.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,999
Location
Platypus Planet
Whoa, hold on nigga. I did NOT want to hear most of that being said. Maybe this isn't a day one purchase after all? Time can only tell.
 
Self-Ejected

JamesBond

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
23
Project: Eternity
Risen was a good game not a great one by any standards. Unless of course you compare it to arcania: Gothic 4.

Risen 2, seems to be an equally good game but I doubt if it had any potential to become great to begin with.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom