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Dragon Age restored my faith in next gen RPG

Micmu

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Where did this clueless idiot come from? :lol:
 

Sodomy

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janjetina said:
Sodomy said:
Everyone on the internet is a genius who is a member of MENSA.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp16 ... 000260.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp16 ... 000261.jpg

You were saying something, dumbfuck?
And how do I know that card belongs to you? It's easy to find someone's MENSA card and upload it to your photobucket.

Really? That post was what my argument was all about.
And in what manner does that post show that my intelligence limits how I can express my thoughts?

Oh, it doesn't, and you're a dumbass grasping at straws.
 

Mareus

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Sodomy said:
janjetina said:
Sodomy said:
Soulforged said:
In Baldur's Gate 2 you were not rushed to do anything so you could explore and disperse yourself in various tasks across a sprawning city .
lolwut?

Your sister being kidnapped, and, presumably, tortured, isn't a reason to hurry?

It is not, unless the game compels you to hurry, by imposing certain time based penalties. Otherwise, you are only LARPing that you have to hurry (this is the right context for the use of that word).
Learn to understand context. Since DA didn't put a time-based penalty on the player, either, and he was comparing DA to BG2, your argument only makes you look like a dumbass.

EDIT: Also, perhaps you simply didn't care for her?
Too bad you're not given that option because you still, eventually, have to go fucking rescue her.

You are fucking retarded.

1. From what part of your ass did you pull out this moronic tale how Imoen would be be presumably tortured?

She got captured by the cowled wizards and there is a lot of lore in Amn about them to give you a hint that Imoen will be relatively safe with them.

2. There are many motives that can motivate you to try and find your way into the Asylum, so rescuing Imoen might not be important to you at all. Motives in BG2:
- Killing Irenicus for killing and torturing your friends
- Killling Irenicus for stealing your soul and torturing you
- Rescuing Imoen
- Preventing Irenicus from spreading destruction upon the world

3. In DA, the sense of urgency is much greater than in BG2 for 2 main reasons.
- In BG2 you witness Irenicus' power, so it would be moronic to go after him unprepared and it would be even more stupid to charge the cowled wizard's asylum until you are very well prepared. Also, like I already mentioned the lore about cowled wizards hints you that Imoen will be relatively safe.
- In DA, the Darkspawn are fucking attacking and killing evrything, yet for some reason after 30% into the game thay don't move an inch??? Fucking stupid!

:salute:
 

Darth Roxor

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Mareus said:
She got captured by the cowled wizards and there is a lot of lore in Amn about them to give you a hint that Imoen will be relatively safe with them.

Safe like in the cutscenes showing Irenicus escaping and slaughtering them?
 

Talonfire

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Darth Roxor said:
Mareus said:
She got captured by the cowled wizards and there is a lot of lore in Amn about them to give you a hint that Imoen will be relatively safe with them.

Safe like in the cutscenes showing Irenicus escaping and slaughtering them?

Well to be fair your character doesn't know about that, and it doesn't happen until you start either the Shadow Thief or Bodhi quest lines.
 

janjetina

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Sodomy said:
And how do I know that card belongs to you? It's easy to find someone's MENSA card and upload it to your photobucket.

a dumbass grasping at straws.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp16 ... 000262.jpg

edit:

And in what manner does that post show that my intelligence limits how I can express my thoughts?

You try to establish the equivalence of the lack of urgency in the BG2 and DA quests (which I agree with). However, you try to do it by making a claim that can be interpreted as nothing but an absolute (not relative to DA) claim of urgency of the BG2 "save Imoen" quest, and when your mistake is pointed to you, instead of learning from your mistakes you enter the full dumbfuck mode. This makes me sad, as I would rather humiliate an ESF dumbfuck than someone who has similar taste in games as me.
 

Sodomy

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Mareus said:
1. From what part of your ass did you pull out this moronic tale how Imoen would be be presumably tortured?
What, you mean aside from the dreams with Irenicus?

2. There are many motives that can motivate you to try and find your way into the Asylum, so rescuing Imoen might not be important to you at all. Motives in BG2:
- Killing Irenicus for killing and torturing your friends
- Killling Irenicus for stealing your soul and torturing you
- Rescuing Imoen
- Preventing Irenicus from spreading destruction upon the world
1 requires giving a shit about Jaheria and Minsc (hint: I didn't). 2 means having to have known that he stole your soul (where the fuck did that happen? I only got to chapter 3- the game was too fucking bland to finish- but I never saw that). 4 gives just as good of a reason to hurry as 3 does.

3. In DA, the sense of urgency is much greater than in BG2 for 2 main reasons.
- In BG2 you witness Irenicus' power, so it would be moronic to go after him unprepared and it would be even more stupid to charge the cowled wizard's asylum until you are very well prepared. Also, like I already mentioned the lore about cowled wizards hints you that Imoen will be relatively safe.
Because charging an archdemon that you don't even know how you're going to kill is a good idea?

- In DA, the Darkspawn are fucking attacking and killing evrything, yet for some reason after 30% into the game thay don't move an inch??? Fucking stupid!
Did I ever claim that isn't a problem? Or are you coming up with a strawman so that you can argue more easily?

In fact, this actually helps my point- namely, that there's no reason to be in a bigger hurry in DA than in BG2, and thus no reason not to explore expansive cities.
 

Sodomy

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janjetina said:
Sodomy said:
And how do I know that card belongs to you? It's easy to find someone's MENSA card and upload it to your photobucket.

a dumbass grasping at straws.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp16 ... 000262.jpg
Congratulations! You may have proven one tiny side point.

Now, care to address the actual argument? Or are you just going to keep throwing red herrings?

EDIT:
You try to establish the equality of the lack of urgency in the BG2 and DA quests (which I agree with). However, you try to do it by making a claim that can be interpreted as nothing else but a claim of urgency of the BG2 "save Imoen" quest, and when your mistake is pointed to you, instead of learning from your mistakes you enter the full dumbfuck mode. This makes me sad, as I would rather humiliate an ESF dumbfuck than someone who has similar taste in games as me.
OK, put the word "story-wise" in my claim (which should be obvious, given that it's the only way in which DA has any urgency). Yes, story-wise, the game's cutscenes DO act as though there is an urgency there. Yet we're going to do sidequests all over Athlakta? It's the exact same setup as DA.
 

Mareus

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"What, you mean aside from the dreams with Irenicus?"
Yeah, you get a few nightmares, so what? It doesn't change the fact it would be suicidal to try and rescue her unprepared. The nightmares only serve as a reminder that although she is in a prison guarded by the cowled wizards, she might not be safe for long. And still you get other motives to go into asylum.

"1 requires giving a shit about Jaheria and Minsc (hint: I didn't)."
Great, you still get other motives to go after Irenicus, unlike in DA, where its just TEH BLIGHT! OMG! YOU ARE TEH ONLY ONE WHO CAN SAVE TEH WORLD!!

"2 means having to have known that he stole your soul (where the fuck did that happen?"
Errr, unless you are a fucking moron and can't make 2+2, you are given hints from the very beginning, also you mentioned the nightmares, which also give some hints. I m not sure when exactly is it spelled out for you since i played the game last time 2 years ago, but i am pretty sure you find out about it before saving Imoen. And it really doesnt matter since you have loads of other motives. i just mentioned a few.

"I only got to chapter 3- the game was too fucking bland to finish- but I never saw that). 4 gives just as good of a reason to hurry as 3 does."
BG2 can be bland only to morons. :salute:

"Because charging an archdemon that you don't even know how you're going to kill is a good idea?"
Are you fucking retarded or what? When did i mention the fucking archdemon? I only said its stupid that the "blight zombies" pose a serious threat to the whole world, yet after Ostergar, they only capture 1 town and then they wait for you to gather the army! It's retarded no matter how you try to justify it. And even more retarded is the fact that when i was around 50% of the game i killed more bandits than blight monsters! How fucking retarded is that?

"In fact, this actually helps my point- namely, that there's no reason to be in a bigger hurry in DA than in BG2, and thus no reason not to explore expansive cities."
Yes there is, cause you would expect the blight to spread from town to town, at least how dangerous it is portrayed in the beginning, and when that doesnt happen its just stupid. The urgency is surely there, but Bioware's lame design made the blight stop until you gather the army. And there is nothing that can justify that.

And the fact that Denerim is bland, is only proof of lame design, nothing else. Besides, half of the quests you got were lame as well there, so its just lame design. BG2 did it right, DA didnt.

:salute:
 

Sodomy

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Mareus said:
Yeah, you get a few nightmares, so what? It doesn't change the fact it would be suicidal to try and rescue her unprepared. The nightmares only serve as a reminder that although she is in a prison guarded by the cowled wizards, she might not be safe for long. And still you get other motives to go into asylum.
The text I quoted was your "OMG, THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK IMOEN MIGHT BE TORTURED!!!" line. The dreams show that there is a reason to think that. Your first point failed, no matter whether it's a good idea to assault the asylum or not.

Great, you still get other motives to go after Irenicus, unlike in DA, where its just TEH BLIGHT! OMG! YOU ARE TEH ONLY ONE WHO CAN SAVE TEH WORLD!!
Did I claim DA had other motives? No? Then I guess this is just yet another strawman, right?

BG2 can be bland only to morons. :salute:
So finding a shitty RTS where you control 6 units at a time with no economic layer bland implies that one is a moron? Riiiight...

Are you fucking retarded or what? When did i mention the fucking archdemon?
You said that it would be unwise to charge Irenicus unprepared, thus giving the character a good reason to do other quests. I am saying that charging the archdemon would be would be similarly unwise.

I only said its stupid that the "blight zombies" pose a serious threat to the whole world, yet after Ostergar, they only capture 1 town and then they wait for you to gather the army!
Apparently you didn't play the game- once you start making progress, they start coming for you as you travel, rather than waiting passively.
It's retarded no matter how you try to justify it.
Never claimed otherwise. But it's also retarded in BG2.
And even more retarded is the fact that when i was around 50% of the game i killed more bandits than blight monsters! How fucking retarded is that?
Humans should still be far more common than darkspawn in the areas that haven't been taken over yet, so not particularly retarded.

Yes there is, cause you would expect the blight to spread from town to town, at least how dangerous it is portrayed in the beginning
No more than you'd expect Irenicus to, you know, actually do something while you're pissing around Athlakta.

And the fact that Denerim is bland, is only proof of lame design, nothing else.
Never claimed otherwise.
Besides, half of the quests you got were lame as well there
More than half. Really, the only good ones were the alienage and the Landsmeet.
so its just lame design. BG2 did it right, DA didnt.
Both games did it wrong.
 

doctor_kaz

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Kaanyrvhok said:
The more I play DA the more amazed I am. The game gets most of the major things right yet it fails at the little things. The contradictions are amusing.

How do you spend that much time in development and end up with a unified inventory?

How do you produce a game thats built ground up for the PC thats so loaded with technical shortcomings and limitations?

Why such horrible encounters with such splendid qwest structure?

Didnt anyone see a problem with the scaling?

I think that these problems you speak of stem from one basic cause. Dragon Age was conceived in 2002, when the technological bar was much lower and Bioware was still basking in the ridiculously inflated reviews for Neverwinter Nights. I don't think that Bioware had any intention of releasing Dragon Age in 2009. I'm guessing they thought it would be a 3-4 year project tops. But when Kotor became a huge hit on the X-Box, Dragon Age went onto the backburner so that Mass Effect and Jade Empire could be made. It may have spent a lot of time in development, but not a lot of man-hours were spent on it in some of those years.
 

TNO

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Not that I want to get into this shitstorm, but there's a wider versilitude problem here: grinding XP.

In the real world, if you wanted to get good at fighting or whatever you don't go around and do some random quests your metagame sense will be easier than the big fight to level up. You do much more boring stuff like training and working out and all the other shit infantry soldiers and special forces do (same applies historically.) Going: "Well, I'll prepare for this dangerous confrontation by doing a series of other dangerous confrontations" isn't very clever.

The issue really is, of course, is how the player character gets dozens of times more powerful over the course of the story. In fantasy and stuff this is an overused mechanic, but with stuff which doesn't involve MAGIC POWARZ! (sci-fi, 'dark gritty and mature realism'), it doesn't make sense. Obviously combat experience counts, but it shouldn't make the difference between you getting killed by rats and can chewing through dozens elite troops attacking you at once in a straight fight.
 

GarfunkeL

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Insert clever insult here
OP is an idiot, thread fails. Sodomy argues like Nomask (probably an old alt he has saved), thread doesn't deliver at all, except making me sad, because of rampant decline :(
 

Soulforged

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Raghar said:
They didn't have even procedurally generated rooms, nor ant optimization. And what do you know about the capability of the "engine" to have multiple characters on screen at once, and its ability to process AI for large numbers of characters? Bioware's games traditionally sucked when someone tried to place slightly more characters into the game. NWN2 crawls with 30? characters. DA is unlikely to be much better.
I'm not sure what "ant optimization" is. I know about the capability of the engine because I've played the game and I read through a great number of the scripts which give hints about this particular point. And no Dragon Age doesn't crawl while you respect that limit (which is about 30 creatures at once).
No time for dragons had a LOT of people in cities, which while they did exactly nothing were at least interesting element.
So they did nothing but were interesting nontheless? Sure, suit yourself. However we're talking about different things here, one thing is the creature which roams peacefully around a city and another is to have intelligent and reactive creatures fight back on the same screen.
 

Sodomy

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GarfunkeL said:
Sodomy argues like Nomask (probably an old alt he has saved)
Nah, I have no problems with jews, niggers, or asians. Just fucking slavs.

EDIT- also, my join date is about a year before his.
 

Mareus

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"The text I quoted was your "OMG, THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK IMOEN MIGHT BE TORTURED!!!" line. The dreams show that there is a reason to think that. Your first point failed, no matter whether it's a good idea to assault the asylum or not."

OMF GOD! You are really grabbing the straws here! Its a fucking dream, a nightmare! Nothing else. Its not like the dreams were portrayed as a vision of what is actually happening.

At best, I can agree that the dream can make you want to hurry and save her, but even then only if you actually played a character who:
1. Either cares for her so much that he would do a suicide mission to save her
2. Or is retarded enough to charge the asylum unprepared based on a fucking dream!

If you play any kind of moderately intelligent character, you will guide yourself by the things you know for sure and not fucking dreams. And the things you know for sure are that Imoen is in a prison, guarded by a bunch of powerful mages which numbers are so great they managed to subdue even Irenicus. Dreams are just dreams for fuck's sake.

Furtermore there is a big difference between she might be tortured and as you said it the first time and I quote: is presumably tortured. When you look at the things you know for sure, the chances of her actually being tortured by Irenicus are very slim (so when you say she might be tortured, i can agree to that, because the possibility exists), but saying she is presumably being tortured would mean that it is probably already happening, and nothing in the game makes you think that, unless you are retarded enough to accept dreams as facts.

"Did I claim DA had other motives? No? Then I guess this is just yet another strawman, right?"
No, but just saying BG2 offered a lot of motives to do things, unlike DA.

"So finding a shitty RTS where you control 6 units at a time with no economic layer bland implies that one is a moron? Riiiight..."
Calling one of the best RPGs ever created a shitty RTS is retarded. Sorry.

"You said that it would be unwise to charge Irenicus unprepared, thus giving the character a good reason to do other quests. I am saying that charging the archdemon would be would be similarly unwise."
Yes, I said that only because you are trying to impose a tale how in BG2 there is great feeling of urgency done wrong, completely ignoring the fact that BG2 does it right. It gives you motives and it gives you a reason to take your time. In DA, you have the blight, which is nothing more than a bunch of monsters who like to kill people, so if you take your time and do all the retarded "WOW" quests like deliver 3 letters to 3 morons, it feels out of place, since the monsters are running around and are presumably (see how to use the word :)) killing thousands of people, thus the feeling of urgency is much greater than in BG2, where Irenicus and Imoen are safe behind bars.


"Apparently you didn't play the game- once you start making progress, they start coming for you as you travel, rather than waiting passively."

Yeah, just like the bandits :) I guess that's how a blight invasion looks like :) Sorry to disappoint you, but for me this is still not an invasion, just retarded design.

"Never claimed otherwise. But it's also retarded in BG2."
Nope, BG2 does it much better.

"Humans should still be far more common than darkspawn in the areas that haven't been taken over yet, so not particularly retarded."
It's very retarded considering there is a blight invasion happening.

"No more than you'd expect Irenicus to, you know, actually do something while you're pissing around Athlakta."
He was captured and imprisoned for fuck's sake. With your line of thinking, i guess you would find it more logical if he escaped the same day he was captured. LOL! On the other hand it doesn't make any sense for monsters in DA to stop for a lunch break considering they killed the king, wiped out most of the gray wardens, and the world being disunited.

"Both games did it wrong."
Nope. DA is miles behind BG2, on all accounts. Fuck! Even the graphic sucks compared to Baldur's Gate 2.
 

Black

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Mareus said:
"The text I quoted was your "OMG, THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK IMOEN MIGHT BE TORTURED!!!" line. The dreams show that there is a reason to think that. Your first point failed, no matter whether it's a good idea to assault the asylum or not."

OMF GOD! You are really grabbing the straws here! Its a fucking dream, a nightmare! Nothing else. Its not like the dreams were portrayed as a vision of what is actually happening.
Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh... not like you were getting any special abilities when you had dreams. Not like the dreams in bg had "deep" meaning. Not like those dreams had anything to do with the story. Not like there's any gameplay in those dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=023oEmZi ... re=related
Completely irrelevant to the story and your character. Just like any other dream or nightmare, right?

I bet you guys all had those nightmares. Some wacky shit is happening, you wake up and BAM- you can transform into an avatar of destruction.
Not even OBEE or LD can beat that shit, I tell you.
 

Mareus

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Black said:
Mareus said:
"The text I quoted was your "OMG, THERE'S NO REASON TO THINK IMOEN MIGHT BE TORTURED!!!" line. The dreams show that there is a reason to think that. Your first point failed, no matter whether it's a good idea to assault the asylum or not."

OMF GOD! You are really grabbing the straws here! Its a fucking dream, a nightmare! Nothing else. Its not like the dreams were portrayed as a vision of what is actually happening.
Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh... not like you were getting any special abilities when you had dreams. Not like the dreams in bg had "deep" meaning. Not like those dreams had anything to do with the story. Not like there's any gameplay in those dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=023oEmZi ... re=related
Completely irrelevant to the story and your character. Just like any other dream or nightmare, right?

I bet you guys all had those nightmares. Some wacky shit is happening, you wake up and BAM- you can transform into an avatar of destruction.
Not even OBEE or LD can beat that shit, I tell you.
Jesus fucking Christ, you guys are really tiresome. No one said that dreams weren't deep, or that they didn't impact the story or that they weren't meaningful. The argument here is if the dreams gave you the feeling: "GAAAWD, IMOEN IS PROBABLY BEING TORTURED! I MUST HURRY AND SAVE HER!!!"

In my opinion, no. There was no pressure to hurry. BG2 gave good reasons for you to take your time, unlike DA. Gaining certain powers from dreams, does not mean dreams are visions of what is happening. In my opinion dreams in BG2 were a pathway to the most hidden parts of your mind, to your subconscious if you will which in return unlocked certain hidden powers. But they remain just dreams and nothing else, otherwise they would be called visions.
 

Black

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Its not like the dreams were portrayed as a vision of what is actually happening.
Those are your fucking words and that's bullshit. Dreams DO show you what is actually happening in more or less bizarre way and they DO HAVE impact on the game's "reality".
They're not "just dreams and nightmares", dreams in uninspired, boring banal shit fantasy games always have something to do with the story, characters etc.
But they remain just dreams and nothing else
Yeah, dreams that grant you divine power. Using the word "just" here is dumb.
 

Mareus

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"Those are your fucking words and that's bullshit. Dreams DO show you what is actually happening in more or less bizarre way and they DO HAVE impact on the game's "reality"."

You are grabbing the straws here. If you had any clue about BG2 story you would know dreams in BG2 never showed what is happening in reality with Imoen! In reality she was safe behind bars. They show what is happening inside you and possibly Imoen since she also lost her soul and you know from the story later that you two are connected. The suffering and tortures represent the anguish from losing your soul on a subconscious level.

"They're not "just dreams and nightmares", dreams in uninspired, boring banal shit fantasy games always have something to do with the story, characters etc."
Learn to read faggot. I never said dreams were uninspired or boring. I am merely saying they are not visions of what is happening in reality and as such should not be considered as anything else.

"Yeah, dreams that grant you divine power. Using the word "just" here is dumb."
Are you fucking stupid or just stubborn and can't accept the fact that gaining divine powers has nothing to do with what is happening with Imoen in phisical reality?
 

Sodomy

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Mareus said:
OMF GOD! You are really grabbing the straws here! Its a fucking dream, a nightmare! Nothing else. Its not like the dreams were portrayed as a vision of what is actually happening.

At best, I can agree that the dream can make you want to hurry and save her, but even then only if you actually played a character who:
1. Either cares for her so much that he would do a suicide mission to save her
2. Or is retarded enough to charge the asylum unprepared based on a fucking dream!

If you play any kind of moderately intelligent character, you will guide yourself by the things you know for sure and not fucking dreams. And the things you know for sure are that Imoen is in a prison, guarded by a bunch of powerful mages which numbers are so great they managed to subdue even Irenicus. Dreams are just dreams for fuck's sake.

Furtermore there is a big difference between she might be tortured and as you said it the first time and I quote: is presumably tortured. When you look at the things you know for sure, the chances of her actually being tortured by Irenicus are very slim (so when you say she might be tortured, i can agree to that, because the possibility exists), but saying she is presumably being tortured would mean that it is probably already happening, and nothing in the game makes you think that, unless you are retarded enough to accept dreams as facts.
Black has debunked you pretty well on this one, but I'd add that anyone who's remotely genre savvy knows that in an RPG dreams always reflect what's about to happen.

Calling one of the best RPGs ever created a shitty RTS is retarded. Sorry.
See, this is where you have to back your statement up with logic and facts, instead of just reiterating that you're correct. Not that I'd expect that level of discourse out of a BG2 fan.


Yes, I said that only because you are trying to impose a tale how in BG2 there is great feeling of urgency done wrong, completely ignoring the fact that BG2 does it right. It gives you motives and it gives you a reason to take your time. In DA, you have the blight, which is nothing more than a bunch of monsters who like to kill people, so if you take your time and do all the retarded "WOW" quests like deliver 3 letters to 3 morons, it feels out of place, since the monsters are running around and are presumably (see how to use the word :)) killing thousands of people, thus the feeling of urgency is much greater than in BG2, where Irenicus and Imoen are safe behind bars.
This has nothing to do with what you quoted, therefore, I can only assume you agree that charging the archdemon at the start of the game would have been suicidal and, if anything, counterproductive.

Yeah, just like the bandits :) I guess that's how a blight invasion looks like :) Sorry to disappoint you, but for me this is still not an invasion, just retarded design.
The bandits never attack in camp. Is it the best way to portray an invasion? Of course not. But it does show that the darkspawn are at least doing something.

BG2 does it no better.
There, fixed it for you.

It's very retarded considering there is a blight invasion happening.
So, in an area where the invasion hasn't reached, you'd expect to see more darkspawn than humans? Really? This must be like that thing Cleve was talking about.

He was captured and imprisoned for fuck's sake. With your line of thinking, i guess you would find it more logical if he escaped the same day he was captured. LOL! On the other hand it doesn't make any sense for monsters in DA to stop for a lunch break considering they killed the king, wiped out most of the gray wardens, and the world being disunited.
Yeah, because you're given no reason to think that Irenicus might be powerful enough to escape, right?

Nope. DA is miles behind BG2, on all accounts.
Wrong.

Fuck! Even the graphic sucks compared to Baldur's Gate 2.
Maybe you should go back to Oblivion? I hear it's graphics are great!
 

Derper

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Users posting from this IP:
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