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Dragon Age restored my faith in next gen RPG

Sodomy

Scholar
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
365
See, if you were an admin who had access to that, instead of a newfag, that might actually be funny.
 

Derper

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Aaaargh
Sodomy said:
Nope. DA is miles behind BG2, on all accounts.
Wrong.

Fuck! Even the graphic sucks compared to Baldur's Gate 2.
Maybe you should go back to Oblivion? I hear it's graphics are great!
Ha! Ahahaha... HaHAHAHAhahahaHAHAHAhaha! AHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaHAHAhahaha*gasp*HAHAHAHAhahaHAhaha...

You, sir - are a funny guy! Funny!
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,872,592
Mareus said:
"
You are grabbing the straws here. If you had any clue about BG2 story you would know dreams in BG2 never showed what is happening in reality with Imoen!
They don't even need to. Let's go back in time. You and Imoen are tortured by Irenicus. Then Imoen and Irenicus get captured. Then they are sent to Spellhold.
It isn't that hard to predict it was Irenicus' "great" plan. Here we have one uber powerful spellcaster and there on the other hand bunch of idiotic wizards who can't even protect their own place. It doesn't take int 18 to notice that SOMETHING IS WRONG, HURR.
And even better, another BG2 idiocy. Here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Ki7yp2XL0
OBVIOUSLY NOTHING BAD IS HAPPENING TO IMOEN RIGHT?
Cut scenes that separate the player from his character- truly bioware mastered the art of immersion and role playing.
So yeah, the player knows that thing's are bad for Imoen and since she's being TORTURED it'd be a good idea to hurry.
In reality she was safe behind bars.
Yeah, apparently we have very different definitions of "safe".
They show what is happening inside you and possibly Imoen since she also lost her soul and you know from the story later that you two are connected. The suffering and tortures represent the anguish from losing your soul on a subconscious level.
And what about not being connected to anyting? As I recall, the PC had dreams in which Irenicus told him that he'll gain a very special power.
Now if that wasn't simply looking into the future I don't know what it was. But I know what it wasn't- a NORMAL dream.

Learn to read faggot. I never said dreams were uninspired or boring
Um... I know. That's what I said about them. They ain't very subtle you know.

I am merely saying they are not visions of what is happening in reality and as such should not be considered as anything else.
Yeah, obviously what the elf fag is talking about here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLtiXm88oUQ didn't happen later.


Are you fucking stupid or just stubborn and can't accept the fact that gaining divine powers has nothing to do with what is happening with Imoen in phisical reality?
I know that. But it has a lot to do with dreams being normal.
Fun fact: if after a dream in which you're told you're the master of fire you learn that you can toss balls of fire in real life then it means that wasn't a normal dream.
 

LazyD

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
700
didnt read a goddamn thing except the title.

op is a newfag
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Crispy said:
Why did they have to name Irenicus "Jon"? Totally ruined it for me.

Joneleth. He became Jon after starting to pretend to be human. One can wonder: was he named Edelbert would that translate to Ed?
 

Mareus

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"They don't even need to. Let's go back in time. You and Imoen are tortured by Irenicus."

Ok.

"Then Imoen and Irenicus get captured. Then they are sent to Spellhold.
It isn't that hard to predict it was Irenicus' "great" plan. Here we have one uber powerful spellcaster and there on the other hand bunch of idiotic wizards who can't even protect their own place. It doesn't take int 18 to notice that SOMETHING IS WRONG, HURR."

1. You have no idea why you were captured by Irenicus, and it takes quite a few hints and dreams to figure out what is happening, but until then you will already be on your way to Spellhold.
2. Yes, it's obvious Irenicus has a plan, and that is why i was using the frase relatively safe. If you could read, you would notice it. But no matter how you look at it, it would still be suicidal to charge Irenicus or Spellhold wizards unprepared for that matter, so the best you can do is hope Imoen will be ok until you become powerful enough to come after her.
3. Spellhold has a reputation of maximum security prison for illegal practicioners of magic, from which no one ever escaped, thus it would be illogical to expect even someone as powerful as Irenicus to escape easily. And if spellhold fell, you would certainly hear rumors about it, but even then it would be foolish to go in unprepared, so i really don't understand your point. especially since this:
"And even better, another BG2 idiocy. Here- http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=22Ki7yp2XL0"
happens after you are already on your way to spellhold. So what's your point?!

"OBVIOUSLY NOTHING BAD IS HAPPENING TO IMOEN RIGHT?"
Not obviously, but probably, since you are given no rumor of Spellhold being taken by an evil wizard, you are given no reason to think Imoen is in grave immediete danger and you are given a lot of reason why NOT to go after her immedietly.

"Cut scenes that separate the player from his character- truly bioware mastered the art of immersion and role playing."
To a point i would agree, since you learn of things that you could not know otherwise, but it looks very cool when Irenicus says: "DIE EVER NOTHING, EVER FOOLS!" or something like that. :)

"So yeah, the player knows that thing's are bad for Imoen and since she's being TORTURED it'd be a good idea to hurry."
Nope, since you get that cutscene after you are already on your way to spellhold.

"Yeah, apparently we have very different definitions of "safe"."
Are you trying to say she wasn't safe behind bars? I mean, i can agree she was in great danger after Irenicus escaped, but you find out about it only after you are well on your way to Spellhold, and before that you had nothing to tell you otherwise. Strawman...

"And what about not being connected to anyting? As I recall, the PC had dreams in which Irenicus told him that he'll gain a very special power.
Now if that wasn't simply looking into the future I don't know what it was. But I know what it wasn't- a NORMAL dream."
1. Looking into the future and seeing things that are happening at the moment are 2 different things.
2. Dreams in BG2 are a link to subconcoius levels of your mind, which unlock your divine powers. Period. Imoen represents the connection to your humanity, Irenicus represents fear and temptation, and thats all. But none of what is happening in your dreams is happening in real life. Saying otherwise is retarded. Sorry. I am not denying the fact that your dreams leave a permanent mark on your character, but Imoen is safe behind bars phisically. FACT!
3. Although there is nothing in the game that would even suggest that Irenicus is somehow entering your dreams and torturing you from within them, you could at best strech it that, but to say your dreams are portraying what is or will happen is pure idiotism. Sorry..

i m done talking with you. Normal dreams or not... it's still just dreams. Saying otherwise is stupid.

:salute:
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
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" but Imoen is safe behind bars phisically. FACT! "

No, not fact. You don't know this. You are making a false assumption./ All you know is that she was arrested for magic use. That's it - espicially since the Cowl Wizards are not known for their hospitality. They are not akin to most modern 1st world police. Nor is beyond the realm of possibility that the player can assume assume that Ireniuc has the power to escape if he so chooses.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,872,592
Mareus said:
i m done talking with you. Normal dreams or not... it's still just dreams. Saying otherwise is stupid.

:salute:
Okay, we wouldn't want to have a discussion on this
:honoursword:
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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Started playing Dragon Age yesterday.

I may not be far (just after the joining), but I can already state that calling this giant truckload of bullshit the 'best rpg since Arcanum' is the greatest decline in the history of the decline of the Codex.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Darth Roxor said:
I may not be far (just after the joining), but I can already state that calling this giant truckload of bullshit the 'best rpg since Arcanum'
Why is it a truckload of bullshit? What is it that you don't like?
 

Darth Roxor

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VentilatorOfDoom said:
Darth Roxor said:
I may not be far (just after the joining), but I can already state that calling this giant truckload of bullshit the 'best rpg since Arcanum'
Why is it a truckload of bullshit? What is it that you don't like?

Honestly? Very much everything so far.

Dialogues are banal shit boring with too many words and almost no substance. Characters are gigantic cliches. Combat is mostly trash combat with zero depth or variety. HP regen + rezing after combat. The human noble origin is predictable as fuck (not to mention the respawning enemies). Fake choices that aren't even subtly masked as fake ('No, I won't become a Warden, you already have a recruit' 'BUT IT IS YOU I WANT' 'no, gtfo' 'OK, RIGHT OF CONSCRIPTION'). Horrendous and terrifying orcs darkspawn that pose absolutely no challenge. Compasses for pretty much everything (Quest compass? Sure! Loot compass? Why not! 'Challenging enemy' compass? Hell yeah!). Downright retarded quest design (looking for barbarian treasure in the swamp - all 'trail signs' are marked on the minimap... but they're not visible anywhere in the gameworld. Have fun pixelhunting under trees and bushes). Character system is largely watered down D&D.

That's all I can remember right now, but I'm fairly sure I had even more various nitpicks and complaints. But as I said, that is only pretty much the first... 3? hours of gameplay, so I guess it can get only worse :smug:
 
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Fake choices that aren't even subtly masked as fake ('No, I won't become a Warden, you already have a recruit' 'BUT IT IS YOU I WANT' 'no, gtfo' 'OK, RIGHT OF CONSCRIPTION').

Is it a fake choice if there wasn't the illusion of choice to start with? The right of conscription mentioned on the first conversation makes it clear you have no say in it and Duncan only asks you because he's trying to be nice.
 

Darth Roxor

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Clockwork Knight said:
Is it a fake choice if there wasn't the illusion of choice to start with? The right of conscription mentioned on the first conversation makes it clear you have no say in it and Duncan only asks you because he's trying to be nice.

But you see, what makes the LEAST sense, actually, is how he just completely forgets about the other recruit (Gilmore was his name?). First he says something like 'Wardens are on the edge of extinction and need all the recruits they can get, but there's no conscription because we don't want to antagonise anyone' and after that he just ignores the one who actually volunteered and only takes a rebellous guy who doesn't want to join?

'I came here for a recruit and I'm not leaving without one' are Duncan's words. He could easily leave with only Gilmore and no one else, since you find the chap like 5 minutes before alive and well. And even if he really really wants to get you, why the FUCK doesn't he recruit both you AND Gilmore? Especially given the overall low number of the wardens. This whole situation would be a whole lot less stupid if Gilmore got an arrow to the head in the meantime. But he didn't.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Darth Roxor said:
Started playing Dragon Age yesterday.

I may not be far (just after the joining), but I can already state that calling this giant truckload of bullshit the 'best rpg since Arcanum' is the greatest decline in the history of the decline of the Codex.
And what exactly did you expect in the introduction part of the game?

Fake choices that aren't even subtly masked as fake ('No, I won't become a Warden, you already have a recruit' 'BUT IT IS YOU I WANT' 'no, gtfo' 'OK, RIGHT OF CONSCRIPTION')
The game is about you being a Warden.
 

Darth Roxor

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Vault Dweller said:
And what exactly did you expect in the introduction part of the game?

Heck, I dunno. Maybe something that will actually motivate me to go on instead of producing rage right from the start?

The game is about you being a Warden.

Now that's just splendid. Except that I don't care about them at all, so why should I WANT to be one? If they're forcing me into a faction, at least give me some reason or meaning and make it actually sensible.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Darth Roxor said:
Vault Dweller said:
And what exactly did you expect in the introduction part of the game?

Heck, I dunno. Maybe something that will actually motivate me to go on instead of producing rage right from the start?
It's a Bioware game, aint it? Anyway, I agree with you that the start is slow and painful, filled with missed opportunities, linearity, and hand-holding. The game gets a lot better once the world map opens up and you're left alone.

The game is about you being a Warden.
Now that's just splendid. Except that I don't care about them at all...
Well... every game is based on a premise that you care about the main events. What if I don't want to pursue the main quest in the Witcher and want to move from town to town slaying monsters and banging chicks? What if I don't want to work for a faction in Risen? Or look for Jedi Masters in KOTOR2?

... so why should I WANT to be one? If they're forcing me into a faction, at least give me some reason or meaning and make it actually sensible.
You're forced to drink poisoned blood and now you're one of them whether you like it or not. At very least it's different from most games and it's probably better than any other reason they could have given you.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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Vault Dweller said:
Well... every game is based on a premise that you care about the main events. What if I don't want to pursue the main quest in the Witcher and want to move from town to town slaying monsters and banging chicks? What if I don't want to work for a faction in Risen? Or look for Jedi Masters in KOTOR2?

But my point is, that these other ones are actually giving me some sort of reason to care about the main events.

Witcher -> there are assassins after my ass, they robbed me and killed my friends. You can't run anywhere because the Salamanders have their eyes everywhere.
Risen -> You don't want to work for a faction in Risen? Then go die in the jungle. Not to mention that it has two different factions, so you're not forced into a specific one. You can't run anywhere because you're on an island.
Kotor2 -> half of the galaxy is after your arse, you're a walking anomaly in the very fabric of the world and the Jedi Masters are the only ones who can provide answers. You can't run anywhere because the Sith can sense you through the force.

Dragon Age -> (at least in the noble origin) Howe's men may be after you, but the Wardens are not exactly your only hope. When Duncan takes you to the king in Ostagar, he just shrugs and says 'Howe will hang'. Did you really need to join the Wardens for that? Since you're a noble and your castle got mysteriously razed, I doubt you'd need the backing of Duncan to tell the king about it.

You're forced to drink poisoned blood and now you're one of them whether you like it or not. At very least it's different from most games and it's probably better than any other reason they could have given you.

'You're forced'. Great. It still doesn't answer the question why should I want to be a Grey Warden. And no, 'you're forced' is not an answer. The Wardens don't even seem like a perfect tool to use to take your revenge, since they're too busy with blight-fighting.
 

made

Arcane
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Vault Dweller said:
Well... every game is based on a premise that you care about the main events. What if I don't want to pursue the main quest in the Witcher and want to move from town to town slaying monsters and banging chicks? What if I don't want to work for a faction in Risen? Or look for Jedi Masters in KOTOR2?

It's the writer's job to MAKE you care about the events; it's not a prerequisite. TW had a very short prologue and little time to introduce characters I had never heard about, yet it succeeded in making me want to pursue Leo's killers and retrieve the Witcher secrets (although I wish they had dropped the Alvin plot entirely, it sucked and only detracted from the above). DA on the other hand fails horribly in that department.
 
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Darth Roxor said:
But you see, what makes the LEAST sense, actually, is how he just completely forgets about the other recruit (Gilmore was his name?). First he says something like 'Wardens are on the edge of extinction and need all the recruits they can get, but there's no conscription because we don't want to antagonise anyone' and after that he just ignores the one who actually volunteered and only takes a rebellous guy who doesn't want to join?

If you ask about Ser gilmore while you dad is dying, Duncan tells you that he never really intended to recruit him, it was just an excuse to get near you, since your father was against it. By coming to the castle, he hoped that he could convince your dad with a long talk or something else (he doesn't really like to invoke the conscription, but is willing to). Howe's treachery just made it easier (Duncan: "this shit is nothing compared to darkspawn rape, I'm taking the kid so he survives tonight and we can stop it all; unless you want him to die here watching your wife getting gangraped". Dad: "ok")


'I came here for a recruit and I'm not leaving without one' are Duncan's words. He could easily leave with only Gilmore and no one else, since you find the chap like 5 minutes before alive and well. And even if he really really wants to get you, why the FUCK doesn't he recruit both you AND Gilmore? Especially given the overall low number of the wardens.

I guess he didn't think gilmore was of value (despite him being competent enough to hold the doors later), so him volunteering didn't really matter.

This whole situation would be a whole lot less stupid if Gilmore got an arrow to the head in the meantime. But he didn't.

He stays behind holding the doors so Howe's men wouldn't enter. The loud crash you hear when talking to your dying dad is the door coming down. So it's not like they could come back and get gilmore, they assume he died.

Risen -> You don't want to work for a faction in Risen? Then go die in the jungle.

That's not an option, it's just game over.

'You're forced'. Great. It still doesn't answer the question why should I want to be a Grey Warden.

You can bitch all you want to Duncan, he tells you to stfu because he can make you become one. If you want out like Ser Jory, he guts you.

And no, 'you're forced' is not an answer.

Why?

The Wardens don't even seem like a perfect tool to use to take your revenge, since they're too busy with blight-fighting.

It's still a position of power that you can use to get your revenge (as human noble, the whole family is dead, so it's not like you have resources). The other option would be raising money by yourself to hire some assassins or something.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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"Now that's just splendid. Except that I don't care about them at all, so why should I WANT to be one?"

Then don't play the game,. Holy fuckin' shit! LOGIC.


"yet it succeeded"

TW only succeeded in doing shit. It gave me no motivation to give a shit about anyone including the PC. That's why IU fuckin' stopped playing it. LMFAO
 

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