IGN has a go at bashing and dissecting JRPGs

[Monkeyfinger]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/106/1060144p1.html

ohhhhh boy.

My personal take:

6, 3, and 2 are good points. Save points are the intentional clinging to something forced by technical limitations in the NES area, and need to go. While JRPGs to mix up their settings, the characters and what they go through is too damn similar from game to game.

9, 5, and 1 are plain false when it comes to most JRPGs. A few of them still use tons of filler/bad VAs/stale battle system, but most JRPGs these days add fresh new mechanics to combat, cut down on the stupid busywork, and have great voice actors. They're problems when they still manage to surface but they usually don't.

10, 8, and 4 are stupid things to bitch about. They're true, but they don't matter.

7 is a GOOD thing that JRPGs do. There's no such thing as a wide open world that's immersive and fun to explore, and the japs have wised up to that fact. I'm tired of talentless WRPG developers like Bethesda ruining their games by building them around this horrible premise.

Regardless of how legit this guy's points are or aren't, the way he namedrops the shittiest WRPGs makes him hard to take seriously. This ties strongly into point 7 and how fucking dumb it is.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Any gamer familiar with the JRPG will immediately recognize what we like to call the "talking cardboard cutout." This classic mechanic superimposes character portraits onto the screen and displays a dialogue box underneath, which effectively eliminates the need for developers to animate sprites or character models. This technique is getting old fast.

BS, these are good. I prefer seeing 2d well animated expressions than dead 3d stare.

 

[Fat Dragon]

7 is a GOOD thing that JRPGs do. There's no such thing as a wide open world that's immersive and fun to explore, and the japs have wised up to that fact. I'm tired of talentless WRPG developers like Bethesda ruining their games by building them around this horrible premise.

I see you've never played Daggerfall. Shame.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

The whole article is a failure because it starts out with the generic "But its still good for what it is" crap.


Also: Fallblivion has an "alive" world.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

alec baldwin, the savior of jrpg

i can dig it

 

[Raghar]

10.) People Live Here?

This is actually common problem with DA.

The Only Good Filler is Jelly in Donuts

Deep roads. FO3 combat filler.

BTW I know Last remnant. While I hated main character, I never had problem with backtracking.

Any gamer familiar with the JRPG will immediately recognize what we like to call the "talking cardboard cutout."

That can be done on purpose. Basically handdrawn faces often shows stuf much better than animation. Just show these character with sufficient zoom out, and everyone would like these hand drawn faces.

ME was FPS (over the shoulder view). Basically it was an attempt of western developers to lick arse of movie industry. Surely they avoided abstraction they wanted ME to be an interactive movie, they even added "movie filter" into the game.

He is mentioning Disgaea 3. It's tradition of Disgaea to have this style.

7.) The Road Less Traveled

Bioware needs to look at other games where character can travel to wherever he wants.

Majority of japanese games actually alow significant freedom. (Chrono trigger.)

Cliches are for Chumps

Yes cliches are bad when they are not required for the story. (On the other hand it's not a cliche when other copied your game and released it sooner.)

No time for dragons has very non cliche story, in comparison to US/UK developed games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Void_(video_game) is yet another example.

Voice Acting Approaches

Majority of FFX fans actually preferred version with English texts and Japanese sounds.

English song in FFXIII localization is significantly worse than Japanese version. Yes FFXIII was localized with some modifications tailored for US players.

Games like Diablo and the recently released Borderlands have shown us that gamers love playing online with others. Even more telling than the success of those titles is the rabid popularity of MMOs and the now household recognition that World of Warcraft so readily enjoys. JRPGs need to learn from these design philosophies and incorporate online elements.

He is tripping. Some game are designed for single player, and they would be VERY bad when converted into multiplayer games.

No More Save Points

Save on exit would be nice, otherwise save scumming prevention is part of game designer work. Smart people are using emulators, or PC. (PC can hibernate which prevents too large electricity consumption.)

Write a New Story,

Bioware, Bethesda write new story. Honestly DA was the same story, with species that were called similarly to what are common in fantasy, but these species were different species, everyone important had tendency to commit suicide, and basically it has next to no surprise.
FO3 story was. Bwuahahahahaha, no. What story?

A good battle system needs a good hook -- something to set it apart from its peers. Think Final Fantasy VI's Magicite or Breath of Fire's dragon transformations. A JRPG needs to make battles so fun, you're eager to encounter another enemy. It's been a long time since we've felt that way.

In PnP RPGs a battle is always risky subject which can cause significant problems even when the battle has been won.


Basically what he wrote could be said about western RPGs as well.

 

[deuxhero]

Wait... complaining about Disgaea's portraits? I vauge recall something about IGN

Oh right. Ryan Clements (article co-writer) is the same idiot who made the review that complained that Disgaea 3 used 2d graphics on the ps3, because 3d is the next generation.

 

[DriacKin]

Majority of japanese games actually alow significant freedom. (Chrono trigger.)

Wut?


Also, I'm not sure if you've realized it or not, but most users here aren't exactly huge fanboys of either Beth or Bioware. Very few users here would use any of their recent games as examples of good RPG design.

 

[Nightjed]

oh god, the whole thing reads out like "hey! i looooove Fallout 3, every RPG should be like fallout 3, lol111!!!1!"
the entire thing was written while deep throating someone from bethesta

half the points are some of the worst mistakes big publishers/developers have ever made, like :

4) you dont have to insert the multiplay suppository into everything, a lot of (some would say most) gamers play single player almost exclusively and you often have to sacrifice cool sp features to insert the mp functionality, just look at Resident Evil 5, sure coop is fun but they deep fried the game in shit to implement it

5) jeez, when i pick up a jrpg i WANT to play a jrpg, i want the different culture crap, i want anime style characters, if i didnt feel like playing that i would have picked up a western RPG, this guy wants to take choice away and just take everything to the lowest common denominator, can you imagine a game with a Samurai changing all the Samurai references to Cowboy references ? ugh!

8) WTF!? did this guy even play Dragon Age ? with those creepy uncanny valley guys and awkward animations ? you know why anime rules over CG ? good 2D drawings are in the "cheap" peak of the uncanny valley, they actually easier to accept than Dragon Age's talking zombies and they are a hell of a lot cheaper to make, FF13 had its gameplay turned into shit for wasting the budget into mindblowing graphics, imho that is not a good tradeoff, good story and good gameplay ends up winning over graphics, remember that Persona 4 (a ps2 game) won most "game of the year" awards against all Xbox360 and Ps3 games of the time and the cost of the game was probably several digits less than your average Halo clone

10) can i has fallout 3 again!?

he hits some ok points almost by accident, i agree with 1, 2 and 3 but the thing is i could say 1 and 2 for almost every western game these days (you know, with the popular dumbing-down-for-consoles/casual and playing-it-safe strategies) and while it is not exactly 3, a lot of western games have very shitty checkpoint systems often forbidding quicksaves

6), yeah because outside of Japan no developers EVER use cliches, their characters are sooooo unique, (thats why i have no trouble differentiating Morrigan from Bastila or Carth from Alistar) and their stories (go to 4 places to collect info/power/items and then go to the 5th place to face the big bad... that wants to destroy the city/world/universe for... no reason a human could possibly understand, wuhahahahaha) are soooooo original

7) a linear story can be accepted if its good, you dont have to turn everything into a sandbox,optional sidequests and extras for replaying the game always add value tho (as long as the game can be replayed, and by that i mean that the game managed not to make you unable to play a single extra minute of it after finishing it without shooting yourself)

9) it depends i can dig filler content sometimes as long as its optional and the battle system is good enough to enjoy customizing my guys

 

[bhlaab]

Chronot Trigger does actually have a surprising amount of freedom and nonlinearity. You have multiple opportunities to kill the end boss before the "real" final encounter, several of your party members can die, etc.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Chronot Trigger does actually have a surprising amount of freedom and nonlinearity. You have multiple opportunities to kill the end boss before the "real" final encounter, several of your party members can die, etc.

Errr. I guess. Sure you can try to kill Lavos when you first reach the End of Time, but it's not going to work out very well. Crono dies, and can optionally be resurrected, and you have the choice of either killing Magus or letting him join your party, but other than that those are the only party members that can die. You get about a half dozen side quests at the end game which are nicely designed and have you travelling all over the gameworld, but otherwise the plot is strictly linear. Chrono Trigger was probably my favorite game growing up, don't get me wrong, but I'd say that Final Fantasy III (VI) was probably less linear, and that non-linearity still doesn't compare to something like Fallout 2.

 

[BLOBERT]

7 is a GOOD thing that JRPGs do. There's no such thing as a wide open world that's immersive and fun to explore, and the japs have wised up to that fact. I'm tired of talentless WRPG developers like Bethesda ruining their games by building them around this horrible premise. [/quote

WOW BRO WERE YOU LIKE 5 YEARS OLD WHEN ULTIMA 7 CAME OUT OR WERE YOU RECUPERATING FROM HIV I HAVE SEEN SOME RETARTED SHIT HERE BUT GOD DAMN YOU WIN A PRIZE

OH YEAH FALLOUT ALSO GODDAMMIT I BET KOTOR IS OLDSKOOL FOR YOU BRO!!!!!!!1111111111

 

[Luzur]

where the fuck have you been, Blo-bro?

 

[BLOBERT]

GETTING DRUNK BRO

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Everything's straight except using a pic of VATS as an example of kicked up combat and their take that "We love anime and we love the Japanese aesthetic". They could have at least used the Fallout 1 or 2. Nahhh you know when you think about Fallout 3 is an an even better slap in the face so nevermind.

Ok so my only gripe is the anime thing. The vast majority of anime cartoons are unorginal and unimpresive. Almost every anime RPG has unoriginal and most have unimpresive art. Certain aspects might be orginal but the rest is like every other game.

I can live with generic fantasy being generic because that forces the story and the character the game. What I cant stand is this tired attempt at far out fantasy that still degenerates into something that you have seen a thousand times. Eternal Sonata is an example of how everything can be original but the characters who are big eyed skinny kids. Anime and Japanese aesthetics is the equivalent of having characters that look the same in every product. Thats not a good thing.

 

[Zeus]

One of the great successes of Bethesda's games, like The Elder Scrolls franchise and Fallout 3, is that the worlds feel alive. They look like they've been lived in.

That's why The Imperial City, capital of Cyrodiil and all the Empire, is a bustling metropolis whose streets are packed with one, sometimes even two people.

Seriously, I know the city has like 250 NPCs, which seems like a lot, but the streets look like high noon at the OK corral. You can see tumbleweeds rolling by. That sort of thing is okay for post-apocalyptic outposts, but the capital of a freaking empire? Even Arena had busier streets. Give me Vice City zombie mobs any day.

 

[Azrael the cat]

alec baldwin, the savior of jrpg

i can dig it

HEY! Alec can save ANYTHING. Alex Baldwin > Chuck Norris any day

Sure, everyone's up his ass now that 30 Rock is the big thing. But for decades before that he was the most under-estimated, under-respected, under-used, good-actor-stuck-with-shit-scripts-in-shit-films in Hollywood. Just compare his performance in A Hunt for Red October, to Harrison Ford playing the SAME character in Clear and Present Danger and the other ones in the series. Baldwin kicked his gravelly-voiced ass

Sure, he might look like some weak fat dude with a smarmy 'I've got a vibrator up my butt, and I'm LOVING it' smile on his face. But he grew up with about a gazillion brothers, almost all of whom have disappeared exactly when Alex put on a few more kilos. I think a lifetime of bullying his many younger brothers, then taunting them with their failed attempts to ride his coat-tails, could only have ended with him EATING all the other baldwins. Really, when was the last time you heard of DANIEL Baldwin? William Baldwin? Heck, STEPHEN Baldwin disappeared the moment he starred in the usual suspects, pushing Alex for Baldwin supremacy - I'm pretty sure that's when he was eaten in some highlander-style Baldwin face-off, the winner securing TV immortality in a comedy guaranteed to be syndicated for the next 50 years.

 

[Junior Boy]

GETTING DRUNK BRO

I lol'd.

 

[Zed]

I read the title as Cancer has a go at bashing and dissecting HIV.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Chronot Trigger does actually have a surprising amount of freedom and nonlinearity. You have multiple opportunities to kill the end boss before the "real" final encounter, several of your party members can die, etc.

Errr. I guess. Sure you can try to kill Lavos when you first reach the End of Time, but it's not going to work out very well. Crono dies, and can optionally be resurrected, and you have the choice of either killing Magus or letting him join your party, but other than that those are the only party members that can die. You get about a half dozen side quests at the end game which are nicely designed and have you travelling all over the gameworld, but otherwise the plot is strictly linear. Chrono Trigger was probably my favorite game growing up, don't get me wrong, but I'd say that Final Fantasy III (VI) was probably less linear, and that non-linearity still doesn't compare to something like Fallout 2.

You can also leave Robo to help Fiona turn the desert into a forest in the past and not take him back in the present, but no one does that, I think.

And the Lavos portal on the end of time is always open, so you can go there whenever you want.

 

[deuxhero]

imho that is not a good tradeoff, good story and good gameplay ends up winning over graphics, remember that Persona 4 (a ps2 game) won most "game of the year" awards against all Xbox360 and Ps3 games of the time and the cost of the game was probably several digits less than your average Halo clone

Oh, but Persona 4 improved it's graphics greatly over 3 compare them (though the improvement it is more of the addition of a more colorful palette than raw polygons).

 

[Emotional Vampire]

List of problems with japanese RPGS:

1. They're made by japanese

It's good to see our resident mentally handicapped nipponhumpers go apeshit about it though

 

[Longshanks]

alec baldwin, the savior of jrpg

i can dig it

HEY! Alec can save ANYTHING. Alex Baldwin > Chuck Norris any day

Sure, everyone's up his ass now that 30 Rock is the big thing. But for decades before that he was the most under-estimated, under-respected, under-used, good-actor-stuck-with-shit-scripts-in-shit-films in Hollywood. Just compare his performance in A Hunt for Red October, to Harrison Ford playing the SAME character in Clear and Present Danger and the other ones in the series. Baldwin kicked his gravelly-voiced ass

Sure, he might look like some weak fat dude with a smarmy 'I've got a vibrator up my butt, and I'm LOVING it' smile on his face. But he grew up with about a gazillion brothers, almost all of whom have disappeared exactly when Alex put on a few more kilos. I think a lifetime of bullying his many younger brothers, then taunting them with their failed attempts to ride his coat-tails, could only have ended with him EATING all the other baldwins. Really, when was the last time you heard of DANIEL Baldwin? William Baldwin? Heck, STEPHEN Baldwin disappeared the moment he starred in the usual suspects, pushing Alex for Baldwin supremacy - I'm pretty sure that's when he was eaten in some highlander-style Baldwin face-off, the winner securing TV immortality in a comedy guaranteed to be syndicated for the next 50 years.

Show some respect man. SB was recently on Celebrity Apprentice.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

List of problems with japanese RPGS:

1. They're shitty

Fixed. I don't give a shit who makes what

 

[Fat Dragon]

The Mother series is the only JRPG worthy of respect. Earthbound owns.