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Party members dying (or not) in combat

Kthan75

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I think it's pretty clear that there isn't a single system that would work perfectly on all games / types of games.

The Raise Dead spell is mostly found in D&D crpgs, but unfortunately, it doesn't always translate well from the P&P game, as someone already mentioned.
In BG2, which I think is the best reference for this system, the availability of Raise Dead and Resurrection added a bit to the tactics, because based on how many scrolls/slots of those spells I had I knew how many party members I can allow to die in a fight - and of course, making sure the person casting those spells would stay alive.
It worked fairly well in BG2 because there were enough difficult encounters to justify the existence of those spells.

But in other games, this can be just an annoyance, or something that you never use.

On the other hand, the health regen solution that we see in most modern games can have its own merits if it's implemented properly (Dragon Age probably being closest to "properly" on this).
But again, most often this is just a way to make the game more "accessible" because death is bad, bawhawhaw.

A hybrid could be a good middle-ground, but i haven't seen one yet that works well (haven't played BaK). D&D is supposed to have this with the 0 to -10 HP where you are not really dead. But this is only meaningful for lower levels, after level 10 or so those 10HP don't mean much. It would be more interesting maybe if the interval slightly increases as you gain levels, or based on CON, for example.
 

DraQ

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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Azarkon said:
Res on combat end is just a stupid fucking mechanic designed to make up for a stupid fucking system operating in a world with a stupid fucking premise.

Anyone familiar with the real world knows this fantasy crap about bands of heroes overcoming 9,573 superhuman monsters to save the village/city/kingdom/world/princess/themselves is bullshit. D&D tries to "insert realism" into this bullshit by making up an elaborate probabilistic combat system that comes down to "lol I rolled a 1 I'm dead," forcing a resurrection mechanic, which in CRPGs become annoyance (because you can't just tell the DM "and then we travel back to town and resurrect Bob"), which leads to player whining, which leads to the res on combat end mechanic.
That's why I'd like to be able to command units of followers, mercenaries, etc. in CRPGs.
That's why I'd like a less retarded world with less retarded premise, needing no retarded cop-outs.

Less filler combat, less genocide squad gameplay, fewer enemies per party member, more importance assigned to individual combat encounters, making every single one dangerous and important, making combat complex and potentially awesome to further emphasise quality over quantity, etc.
 

JarlFrank

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Yeah, I'd actually like an RPG with only about 20 or 30 fights in total but these really well-designed and significant. No filler combat where you kill and kill and kill over 100 creatures per dungeon.

Also, NON-LETHAL COMBAT, BITCH
Bandits don't fight to the death in real life, either.
 

Phelot

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Kthan75 said:
A hybrid could be a good middle-ground, but i haven't seen one yet that works well (haven't played BaK). D&D is supposed to have this with the 0 to -10 HP where you are not really dead. But this is only meaningful for lower levels, after level 10 or so those 10HP don't mean much. It would be more interesting maybe if the interval slightly increases as you gain levels, or based on CON, for example.

I like the whole 0 to -10 approach since it DOES reduce the amount of raise dead being used. Having it based on constitution might be a good idea, but still the concept of raise dead seems kind of ridiculous to me no matter the setting.

I mean, all these nameless thugs that we the PC kill, you'd think some of them could get a hold of raise dead scrolls (or rather their family which never exists in game, of course) or you'd think peasants would be heartbroken to lose a loved one and not be able to afford the raising cost. Interesting concepts that are never explored.

But I agree with those above, it'd be nice if a game does not depend fully on combat, but on a few choice encounters that are expertly designed.

I've called for smaller game worlds in other threads and I still want it. Most PnP modules are NOT that massive and I see no reason why a CRPG couldn't be made in this method.
 
In My Safe Space
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I love finishing-off enemies that went below 0. Too bad that auto-death in ToEE has denied me this pleasure.
 

chzr

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Respawning party members in dao/me is totally retarded. The only excuse is that the AI is so bad it'll be impossible to win any combat.

I forgot. resting/healing would break the awsum immersion of DaO/ME (like leveling up)
 

commie

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JarlFrank said:
Also, NON-LETHAL COMBAT, BITCH
Bandits don't fight to the death in real life, either.

Exactly! Hate how there is always a zero sum game: you either kill or be killed. Why not surrendering enemies? Hate how after you kill 30-40 enemies the last 4 or 5 bandits or whatever STILL seem to think that you somehow got lucky and they will succeed!

I loved how in Gothic at least you had non-lethal combat against the sentient beings with an option to kill afterwards(with all of the consequences that has).
 

Lothers

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Dying definitively in serious combat (like with bosses and monsters, however monsters also can flee from combat), but you should've been able to recruit new team members in taverns :) Also there should be non-lethal fights.
 

Kthan75

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Lothers said:
Also there should be non-lethal fights.

Yes.

Which game did I read about recently that will have this? The Witcher 2?

Back on Raise Dead, I think D&D crpgs make it too common. I would be interested in seeing a system/game where Raise Dead exists, but it's so ridiculously expensive (or un-accessible) that you can only use it once or twice per game (perhaps have it even be a part of the storyline).
 

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